The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Michig ( talk) 06:37, 31 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Lili Päivärinta

Lili Päivärinta (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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Musician who doesn't appear to have any relevance on her own, but only as part of the duo Lili & Susie. ׺°”˜`”°º× ηυηzια׺°”˜`”°º× 00:54, 24 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. TheSandDoctor ^Talk 03:11, 24 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. MT Train ^Talk 05:10, 24 March 2018 (UTC) reply

• Redirect to Lili & Susie and merge whatever content is useful and not already in the target article. (You could probably have done so without taking it to AFD.) -- Hegvald ( talk) 07:37, 24 March 2018 (UTC) reply
• Redirect to Lili & Susie. She has no independent notability but is a possible search term for the duo, therefore redirecting is most likely appropriate. -- TheSandDoctor ^Talk 17:59, 24 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 22:41, 24 March 2018 (UTC) reply

• Redirect (speedy?) to Lili & Susie due to individual non-notability, a classic example of a subject that should be redirected. Coolabahapple ( talk) 22:45, 24 March 2018 (UTC) reply
• Keep She is the host of a well-known and long-running show in Sweden about animals. She is known for her animal activism. She has contributed to several hit songs as part of a duo that made it to Sweden's music chart. People are obviously interested in her as an individual because she's reported on when it comes to her clothes, her love life, etc. According to WP:GNG she passes due to significant coverage in secondary sources. She passes WP:ENTERTAINER for "Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions" (being a host on a long-running show on national television) and "Has a large fan base or a significant 'cult' following" (people are interested in what she wears, who she dates, her personal history, her struggle with children, etc). She also passes WP:MUSIC for "Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart." Lonehexagon ( talk) 05:17, 25 March 2018 (UTC) reply
• Strong Keep - Per improvements made today. Per WP:GNG and WP:MUSIC which is covered now that the article has been improved. BabbaQ ( talk) 09:05, 25 March 2018 (UTC) reply

• Pinging - @ Coolabahapple:,@ TheSandDoctor: and @ Hegvald: now that the article has been improved. BabbaQ ( talk) 09:09, 25 March 2018 (UTC) reply

• Keep: Covered fairly extensively in a number of secondary sources.-- Ipigott ( talk) 12:17, 26 March 2018 (UTC) reply

• Keep, per Lonehexagon, with the same rationale as for her sister: Whereas her main claim to fame is being part of the aforementioned duo, there's also other information, relevant mainly in an article about her rather than the band, that's relevant to the general public. / Julle ( talk) 15:24, 27 March 2018 (UTC) reply
• Comment - I reiterate my position on redirecting the page to the duo, as the only relevant solo endeavor mentioned in the article is a show that doesn't even have an article on Wikipedia. The rest is just personal life details that don't really show any relevance. ׺°”˜`”°º× ηυηzια׺°”˜`”°º× 23:20, 27 March 2018 (UTC) reply

• Note to closing admin - I pinged the three editors who !voted before the improvements of the article as seen above. No one have decided to re-evaluate or comment on the improved article. BabbaQ ( talk) 00:43, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Comment: My apologies for the delay in my response BabbaQ (was not watchlisted - fixed now - and fell off my radar) and thank you for the ping. I still feel that there is not enough coverage within the article (or present elsewhere). Most of the citations are not in depth or anything individual (or are interviews, which themselves do not contribute to notability). WP:NMUSICBIO states "Note that members of notable bands are redirected to the band's article, not given individual articles, unless they have demonstrated individual notability for activity independent of the band."

Before I go into the references in the article, I will point out that I used Google Chrome's page translation feature to assess the contents as I do not speak/read Swedish. (Not that I think that that would influence anything, just stating for those curious and just in case there was a translation error or something)

• The first reference is an interview of the two sisters about the group
• The second is about the two of them (as a group)
• The third is not in depth, just stating that she is supportive of animal rights and started a TV show (Google searches did not return any results, meaning that Wikipedia does not have an article for it and it may not be notable)
• The fourth is about the two of them as (based on language in article and the FB page being referred to as "their") a collective
• The fifth is a short interview and continuation of the fourth (with both)
• The sixth again affirms that they were notable (as a group/collective) in the '80s, but does nothing to further separate/individual notability
• The seventh (ignoring for a second that Discogs is usually not considered a reliable source) is again for the collective
• The eighth is the same reference as the third, so refer to that point
• The ninth is the same as the eighth and third, so refer to the third

If there are (reliable) sources out there that I may have missed (a possibility as we are all human) that help prove individual/independent notability and they are brought forward, I will happily reconsider and strike my redirect !vote in favour of a different one. I hope that this helps to explain my concerns. I thank you again for the ping. -- TheSandDoctor ^Talk 04:08, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Just want to add that I forgot to mention here (but did at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Susie Päivärinta) that Expressen and Aftonbladet are both tabloids. -- TheSandDoctor ^Talk 04:33, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

• I want to point out that medialike Expressen, Aftonbladet are the leading newspapers in Sweden and not tabloids read only for celeb gossip. I do think there are something is lost in translation here. BabbaQ ( talk) 05:28, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

That is why I had the bit up there about the machine translation (in case something was lost like that). Regardless though, I believe my comments above to still "stand" - minus the tabloid mention bit. -- TheSandDoctor ^Talk 05:33, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Ok that's fine but I think there are some "lost in translation" of sources here concerning both her TV leading presenter work and songwriting and singing but that is up to you. All I can say is that Swedish editors with knowledge about her and her sister career have all !voted Keep. Anyway, thanks for your input. Cheers. BabbaQ ( talk) 05:39, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

• Keep, per Lonehexagon. Both her and her sister. Adville ( talk) 09:21, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply
• Keep as passes WP:ENTERTAINER apart from the duo as the host of a long running television show that is nationally broadcast and a regular on another show so qualifies for a standalone article and there are enough sources to confirm passing WP:ENTERTAINER Atlantic306 ( talk) 17:08, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.