The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Delete It's interesting, but the only mention I can quickly find of him (the reference in the article) is trivial, and he doesn't have any presumptive notability.
SportingFlyertalk19:31, 29 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete I can't find anything about him or the incident. A one line mention in a book is not sufficient to justify an article. The incident itself might be worth mentioning somewhere in wikipedia but not as a standalone article.
Meters (
talk)
20:43, 29 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I deleted the added information, it was for Joseph R. Holmes, who died in 1869. John R. Holmes died in 1892, although their stories are similar. I think that there is also confusion because Joseph R. Holmes' owner was John R. Homes, who died in 1857.–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
08:17, 30 May 2018 (UTC)reply
The article is clearly talking about
Joseph R. Holmes and not his owner, so the page should be moved there. In terms of notability, Holmes is very notable, see this excerpt from the Virginia encyclopedia "Several Virginia newspapers published long accounts of the incident, and papers in more than twenty other states and the District of Columbia excerpted or reprinted them, giving Holmes's death an exceptionally wide notoriety among many reports of white-on-black violence during the years after the Civil War."Polyamorph (
talk)
08:21, 30 May 2018 (UTC)reply
The original source for the article, the WPA articlebook, states "John R. Holmes, a Negro candidate for State senator in 1892, was shot to death by a white man in Charlotte County."
Then, a user added content about Joseph R. Holmes who died in 1869 for his political activities in Charlotte County.
Ok. I would agree that Joseph is more notable. There are not a lot of reliable sources about him, but there is more - I count 4: 1 book that isn't snippet view, 2 websites and 1 newspaper article.–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
08:49, 30 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Yes and since this is a very old event I expect there to be offline sources, including the many newspapers that reported detailed accounts at the time which provide established notability per
WP:NOTTEMPORARY. Cheers, Polyamorph (
talk)
09:18, 30 May 2018 (UTC)reply
That's the bit that has been surprising me. FloridaArmy has been banging on about how people should use newspapers.com and I would imagine that site is a go-to place for stuff like this ... yet they seem not to have used it themselves? Or is there actually nothing there? Or is that because the name is wrong? -
Sitush (
talk)
09:24, 30 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I didn't find anything for "John R. Holmes" at newspapers.com, but there is an article about "Joseph R. Holmes" regarding his death in 1869.–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
16:15, 30 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete I have to admit that I have doubts that Joseph R. Holmes is notable. Being a member of a state constitutional convention is not generally in and of itself a sign of notability. However John R. Holmes, as only a candidate for office, is clearly not notable.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
01:05, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete: There are a few more books that mention his death in 1892,[1][2][3] but judging by the snippet view, they do not tell us more than the WPA source. I searched for a possible
WP:ATD-R target, and ... found him mentioned of all places in
Virginia elections of 1869: "John R. Holmes, an African American, was assassinated while campaigning for a state senate seat." and was not surprised to see the addition was made by FA in
Special:Diff/831941829/831942063. I have removed it, and I will leave it up to you who know the subject matter better to add a mention of
Joseph R. Holmes if it is relevant, and maybe have a look at FA's additions and adjust the intro. I have moved the article back to
Virginia gubernatorial election, 1869, a title that is consistent with other titles in
Category:Virginia gubernatorial elections. SamSailor08:51, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
References
^Virginia Writers' Project (1941).
Virginia: A Guide to the Old Dominion. American guide series. Oxford University Press. p. 82. Retrieved May 31, 2018. John R. Holmes, a Negro candidate for State senator in 1892, was shot to death by a white man in Charlotte County. This act, described as 'a very extreme example of intimidation,' solved the dilemma for the district, since no other Negro ...
^Williams, J.E. (1965).
The Progres[s]ive Free Negroes in the United States Before Abraham Lincoln and After. p. 110. Retrieved May 31, 2018. There was, John R. Holmes a Negro candidate for State Senator in 1892, he was shot to death by a Klan white man in Charlotte County. This act was described as a very extreme example of intimidation, which solved the dilemma for the ...
^Bennett, L.; Berry, L.H. (1979).
I wouldn't take nothin' for my journey: two centuries of an Afro-American minister's family. Johnson Pub. Co. p. 89. Retrieved May 31, 2018. Violence and intimidation accelerated, and when John R. Holmes, a Negro candidate for State Senator in 1892, was shot to death by a white man in Charlotte County, no other Negro candidates presented themselves for election to State or ...
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.