- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. GNG not supported by keep votes. Editor's are reminded that, per WP:NRIVALRY, the notion of a rivalry must rreceive significant coverage in a number of third party sources. It is not enough simply for the name to be mentioned in match reporting. It is also highly unlikely that a genuine rivalry garnering such coverage would materialise after only a small number of games and recreation. Fenix down ( talk) 08:23, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
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- Hell Is Real ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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No evidence that this single game was notable. Nothing out iof the ordinary happened, and no titles were decided. Just a routine cup game between two teams that happen to be located nearish to each other. Ilikeeatingwaffles ( talk) 13:55, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
- Keep - topic draws nearly quadruple, if not quintuple the amount of web results compared to a routine match between teams, and about 7 or 8 times the amount of traffic to a typical U.S. Open Cup game, which meets WP:NOTABLE. Further, the phrase and terminology has received extensive third party coverage. Quidster4040 ( talk) 16:35, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:57, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:57, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:58, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:59, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
- Delete Run of the mill cup game between two local sides. Citations/links are WP:ROUTINE coverage. Dougal18 ( talk) 18:29, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
- Keep - now that FC Cincinnati is in MLS, this will become a regular rivalry, played (likely) three times per year. It already has quite a bit of
WP:SIGCOV to help it meet
WP:GNG, and should continue to get more as it is played in the future. I plan on rewriting the page in the near future to better reflect that this wasn't just a one-off match.
21.colinthompson (
talk)
23:57, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
- But it was a one-off match. They have played one time. And if we end up with separate articles for USL Cincinnati and MLS Cincinnati, it will remain a one-off match forever from a WP perspective as any future games will involve a different Cincinnati entity.
Jack N. Stock (
talk)
00:13, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, as of "right now" it is a one-off match, but they will be playing more times in the future (barring the unlikely event (at this point) that the Crew aren't sold). And even if we do end up with separate articles for the two clubs, the rivalry would still be contained under one article:
Portland Timbers–Seattle Sounders rivalry,
Canadian Classique, and
Heritage Cup (MLS) are just some of the MLS rivalries that also include rivalry matches from "previous eras" in one or both clubs' histories. We would still include the 2017 match under the Hell is Real banner, just with the note in prose that it occurred during "FC Cincinnati's USL era". The argument of this one has to be over the coverage – not over the status of the match.
21.colinthompson (
talk)
00:46, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
- It would be better to discuss this on the talk page, but I will wait until I know whether the article is deleted or kept. All I'll say now is that I'm concerned that WP:CRYSTALBALLing might make a delete more likely. Jack N. Stock ( talk) 01:46, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, as of "right now" it is a one-off match, but they will be playing more times in the future (barring the unlikely event (at this point) that the Crew aren't sold). And even if we do end up with separate articles for the two clubs, the rivalry would still be contained under one article:
Portland Timbers–Seattle Sounders rivalry,
Canadian Classique, and
Heritage Cup (MLS) are just some of the MLS rivalries that also include rivalry matches from "previous eras" in one or both clubs' histories. We would still include the 2017 match under the Hell is Real banner, just with the note in prose that it occurred during "FC Cincinnati's USL era". The argument of this one has to be over the coverage – not over the status of the match.
21.colinthompson (
talk)
00:46, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
- But it was a one-off match. They have played one time. And if we end up with separate articles for USL Cincinnati and MLS Cincinnati, it will remain a one-off match forever from a WP perspective as any future games will involve a different Cincinnati entity.
Jack N. Stock (
talk)
00:13, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
- Delete. Fails WP:GNG and has no substantial coverage after the fact. Wait until a few rivalry matches are played before trying to revive this one. Sounder Bruce 00:37, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
- Delete - not convinced by GNG arguments. Coverage seems run-of-the-mill to me. Giant Snowman 10:24, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
- Draftify and redirect Not real convinced that this meets WP:GNG right now but it seems likely that this will become more clearly notable once Cincinnati actually begins play in MLS. There's also not a very clear redirect except for maybe 2017 U.S. Open Cup#Fourth Round, so that might work. The information is also mostly in the respective teams' articles as well. Jay eyem ( talk) 16:16, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:TOOSOON without prejudice on recreation. The match itself isn't notable, but the rivalry will almost certainly become notable with the new Cincinnati MLS team if Columbus don't end up moving. SportingFlyer talk 23:43, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log ( step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2018 November 26. — cyberbot I Talk to my owner:Online 00:42, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
- Comment. Can the supporters of this article please do something about the coloring of the text and background in the "Results" section? The blue text on a red background is hard to read. -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 02:25, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
- Draftify Add six months and this will pass WP:GNG as a rivalry because Cincinnati will have played Columbus in MLS. The two teams and the MLS are desperate to call this an in-state rivalry, and WP:RS will enthusiastically cooperate. Put it on the back burner to allow 21.colinthompson and others improve it so that it's ready for mainspace early in the 2019 MLS season. It will save the effort of re-writing it. Yes, it can be WP:REFUNDed, but I've been around long enough to know that is not what happens, then we have history merge and so on, along with the risk of misattribution. It's more efficient to move to draft and move back later. If the "Hell Is Real" name becomes stale, or is applied to the first game but not the rivalry, then the draft can be moved to whatever people commonly call it. Jack N. Stock ( talk) 02:56, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.