- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Arbitrarily0 ( talk) 04:33, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
Eugeniusz Olszyna
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- Eugeniusz Olszyna ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
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Contested draftification. Was draftified explaining that NFOOTY has been deprecated and they need to meet GNG. Was returned to mainspace without improvement, with the comment, "Absolutely reasonable stub", ignoring the notability criteria. Refs consist of two database entry and a primary source. Fails WP:GNG. Onel5969 TT me 12:29, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Poland. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 12:35, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 12:37, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. Effectively just stats, not seeing sources that would make him meet WP:GNG, and pl wiki doesn't have an article about him either. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:20, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: Fails WP:GNG, per nom. Hey man im josh ( talk) 14:00, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- Delete No sources to establish notability. QuicoleJR ( talk) 14:01, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:08, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - It appears that Olszyna was a marginal figure in Polish football, but Eleven Sports Poland via Interia has a fairly in-depth obituary here. I'll look to see if there's anything else online, but I think SPORTSBASIC may be met at least. Jogurney ( talk) 20:21, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- Strong Keep marginal player? He was a top player in the 70s, for two clubs that are still 2 of the top teams in the country; we would not be having this discussion if it was a Carlisle United player from the 70s would we? Also since when are 90minut.pl and Lech Poznań not reliable sources? Abcmaxx ( talk) 18:45, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
- I said he appeared to be a marginal figure because Eleven Sports Poland indicates that he was primarily a substitute for Lech (appearing in just 42 official matches during his 5 seasons with the club): Nigdy nie był graczem pierwszego wyboru, raczej zmiennikiem, który na boisku nie popisywał się "snajperskim nosem". I can't find any indication that he played in the Ekstraklasa for another club, but I'll check if I missed something. Jogurney ( talk) 19:15, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
- The club website and 90minut.pl are reliable sources, but the club is not an independent source (as it has a vested interest in promoting its own players) and at three short sentences, the 90minut.pl obituary is not in-depth: Eugeniusz Olszyna urodził się 10 lutego 1954 roku w Poznaniu. W barwach Lecha grał w latach 1974-1976. W ówczesnej I lidze rozegrał 39 spotkań, w których zdobył trzy bramki.
Jogurney (
talk)
19:18, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
- firstly, I hope you appreciate how hard it is to find sources from
PRL era Poland relating to the 70s. Secondly, per
WP:STUB this is enough to build upon. Thirdly,
Warta Poznań may have been in the league below at that point in time but is an absolutely top club in Poland, not sone provincial team. Also why are we holding Polish players to an absurdly higher level than the third or fourth tier in England? That would be a systemic
WP:BIAS surely. That Lech has a vested interest in promoting a player who has just died and not played for 50 years is an absurd suggestion; they have plenty of notable players past and presenting their interest would be in recognising a current player or one they wish to aquire surely.
Abcmaxx (
talk)
20:28, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
- It's really not absurd to believe a football club has an interest in promoting its former players. We had a recent discussion at
WT:NSPORTS where I asked this exact question. I agree that finding contemporary Polish sources from the 1970s is exceedingly difficult. I also believe that Eleven Sports Poland provided some in-depth coverage in their obituary, so I'm not sure how to !vote yet. That said, it would be easier if Polish media had profiled Olszyna after retirement (rather than the spate of obituaries now available following his death).
Jogurney (
talk)
01:43, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
- I'm absolutely sure they did profile after his retirement, but that still would have been over 40 years ago, so still in the PRL-era and way before the invention of the internet. Unless you happen to have a copy of the local paper from 4 decades ago lying around I'm not sure what sources you exactly expect; and yes if I find better ones I will add them. Abcmaxx ( talk) 15:35, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
- It's really not absurd to believe a football club has an interest in promoting its former players. We had a recent discussion at
WT:NSPORTS where I asked this exact question. I agree that finding contemporary Polish sources from the 1970s is exceedingly difficult. I also believe that Eleven Sports Poland provided some in-depth coverage in their obituary, so I'm not sure how to !vote yet. That said, it would be easier if Polish media had profiled Olszyna after retirement (rather than the spate of obituaries now available following his death).
Jogurney (
talk)
01:43, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
- firstly, I hope you appreciate how hard it is to find sources from
PRL era Poland relating to the 70s. Secondly, per
WP:STUB this is enough to build upon. Thirdly,
Warta Poznań may have been in the league below at that point in time but is an absolutely top club in Poland, not sone provincial team. Also why are we holding Polish players to an absurdly higher level than the third or fourth tier in England? That would be a systemic
WP:BIAS surely. That Lech has a vested interest in promoting a player who has just died and not played for 50 years is an absurd suggestion; they have plenty of notable players past and presenting their interest would be in recognising a current player or one they wish to aquire surely.
Abcmaxx (
talk)
20:28, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - Per Abcmaxx. @
GiantSnowman:, I found
[1],
[2], and
[3], all of which go into his background. Defineltyh has offline sources as well, having been a clearly signficiant figure in Polish league football in pre-internet era. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks,
Das osmnezz (
talk)
18:14, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
- All look to be fairly brief pieces about his death. Giant Snowman 18:19, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. BLP Fails GNG and BIO. Sources in the article do not show N. BEFORE didn't show anything beyond stats and ROUTINE news which meets IS RS with SIGCOV showing N and pl.wp has no sources for them. Sources above are not SIGCOV. The claim they are a "clearly signficiant figure" is refuted by the lack of sources. BLPs need clearly IS RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth for both content and notability to avoid abuse per well known core policy (
WP:V and
WP:BLP) and guidelines (
WP:BIO and
WP:IS,
WP:RS,
WP:SIGCOV). //
Timothy ::
talk
18:54, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
- @
TimothyBlue: Just letting you know that this is not a BLP.
BeanieFan11 (
talk)
18:55, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
- I should have been clearer. I was applying BLP section WP:BDP, since their death occurred ~1 month ago. // Timothy :: talk 03:48, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
- @
TimothyBlue: Just letting you know that this is not a BLP.
BeanieFan11 (
talk)
18:55, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete Lacks in-depth coverage to meet WP:NBIO. MrsSnoozyTurtle 03:36, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.