The result was delete. kur ykh 01:34, 5 April 2009 (UTC) reply
Delete for being an OR essay. No assertions as to why this page is even notable in the first place, or if the issues are as serious as the page's creator said. Arbiteroftruth Plead Your Case 14:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC) reply
At the kind suggestion of LinguistAtLarge, I'm re-posting the flwg here:
To facilitate your review/verification of my Wiki page, here's another link to the Strata Titles Board (STB) Circular issued in 2004 to clarify the 1999 Land Titles (Strata) Act (LTSA) which I have also added to my Wiki page:
[ [1]] Strata Titles Boards Circular 1/2004
Whether a clarifying STB Circular has the effect of a "statute" is an open question (to me). This clarification effectively affirmed a window of up to 24 months to nail down an en bloc sale based on a Reserve Price established upfront (ie, even earlier than 24 months) in a moving (ie, for en bloc sales, usually frenzied upward-moving) property market. To date (ie, for nearly a whole decade), the en bloc industry along the entire value chain (viz, starting from the en bloc sale committee, to the property marketing agent/en bloc lawyer (both of whom operate under "no sale, no fee" structure), to the developer-buyer, to the STB, to the courts) takes this 24-month window as law.
It is beyond me as a mere citizen to challenge this - so I take it as part of the game rules and, accordingly, this is only a comment. However, this legislative effect created a business structure and modality that exacerbates the dire predicament of owner-occupiers (especially) who face the following crushing prospects in buying a replacement family home post-en bloc:
Squatters (rent until the market hopefully crashes),
Refugees (buy apartment in another estate of equivalent or older age and risk being en bloc yet again - there are letters to the press of such experiences),
Downgraders (buy public housing flats or move from central to suburbs),
Downsizers (buy in same neighbourhood at "twice the price; half the size").
BTW, I run this blog using my pseudonym of "The Pariah" at:
www.singaporeenbloc.blogspot.com and a condensed version of my analysis of this piece of legislation is set out in this blog entry:
[
[2]] The Source and Themis
(but I suppose Wikipedia etiquette would NOT allow me to embed links to my own blog - Correct??).
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SINPariah (
talk) 05:26, 1 April 2009 (UTC))
reply
Pls excuse me for being a befuddled Wikipedia newbie. But it looks like my postings on Arbiteroftruth's talk page disappeared yesterday. So I will repeat them here:
1. Again, to facilitate verification, I have added links in my new Wikipedia page to external web-sites of (a) the Attorney General's Chamber for the Land Title (Strata) Act and (b) the Supreme Court for the written judgement on Regent Court en bloc suit.
As the AG's Chamber link requires the Wiki user to know the name (viz, Land Titles (Strata) Act) or the chapter number (viz, Cap 158) before this statute could be accessed, it is not user-friendly to Wiki users unfamiliar with Singapore laws. How can I make the link more user-friendly pls?
As the Supreme Court web-master archives the judgements every calendar quarter, this Regent Court en bloc written judgement would eventually disappear from the "Current Judgements" web-page. How can I affix the link so that the judgement is available for viewing post-archival?
2. Likewise (despite being a non-technie), I've managed to convert the flwg into jpeg image files: (a) the statistical charts of the Urban Redevelopment Authority and Jones Lang LaSalle Research and (b) the pertinent page extract from the Singapore Academy of Law Journal article. However, my attempt to attach these under "insert a picture gallery" has resulted in rectangular blobs! As I obviously do not hold the copyright to these charts/article, can I add them to Wikipedia Commons with the necessary source attributes? If I'm assured that it's ok, then I will muck around to attempt an upload from Wikipedia Commons thereafter.
Your kind assistance would be much appreciated. Kindly e-mail me at:
<singaporeenbloc@gmail.com>
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SINPariah (
talk) 05:26, 1 April 2009 (UTC))
reply
Do not Delete this article: I have found this article to be both accurate and informative and reflects the other side of the coin on this matter. As a victim of a failed attempt of an en bloc sale of my private condominium in Singapore, there are salient facts not generally known to owners beforehand. The rosy picture painted in the media is not an accurate reflection of what happens on the ground and the safeguards found in the Statutes for the minority owners are constantly being watered down by the Courts. Certainly, as an owner of a middle to low end private apartment, the assertion that the issue is not as serious as the pages's creator said is wrong, and it is indeed very serious to all those who are burned at the alter of En Bloc. In my estate alone, that would include many who would have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in their savings accounts had the majority been successful in their attempt at selling the estate in 2007(rising property market) at as price set in 2005(low property market). Buying a property at 'half the size, double the price' was the reality, as my research into a possible replacement property revealed at the time. I can only wait with dread at the next attempt to sell my home without my permission, at a price set by others and with very weak legislature to protect my interests. This article is correct in pointing out the weaknesses, pitfalls and untruths that lie behind this particular law. Itshometome ( talk) 06:27, 1 April 2009 (UTC) reply
i am a lawyer in private practice in singapore who also happened to be a non-consenting owner to an enbloc attempt to sell at a grossly unfair price and can relate to and confirm many of the things said by sinpariah especially under unjust law - in relation to what is alllowed by law under the 12 + 12 = 24 month window. ( Vijust ( talk) 01:34, 2 April 2009 (UTC)) reply
vijust
- Mailer Diablo 15:32, 2 April 2009 (UTC) reply
I am very glad of and impressed with the wealth of information in this article on the current enbloc situation in Singapore. As a minority dissenter who have been involved in such a process, I can verify that the contents are well-balanced and educational. I notice Arbitorfortruth still has some reservations on this article. Why not take up SINPariah's offer and contact the originator for proper verifications?
suntzeren( Suntzeren ( talk) 15:35, 2 April 2009 (UTC)) reply
Wikisider (
talk) 16:09, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
reply
Thank you Kimchi, Mailer Diablo and Wikisider. I have left a message on Kimchi's talk page about my jpeg file attachments and would appreciate some guidance/help as I'm really NON-technie. I have started amending the article and now that a friend has helped me put in the citations for the Land Titles (Strata) Act (which is the source for all the points that I made in this Wiki article), I will plug in a slew of citations at the various tagged places. Just give me a few days to tidy it up.
Where the points relate to newspaper reports (eg, what the specialist en bloc lawyer said about 1-4-1 exchange), I have the source, the date, BUT Singapore's press media database in DIGITAL FORM is very limited (UNLIKE in the USA). The articles are archived every 7 days and there is no way to obtain an archival URL. I went down to our National Library to check if I could get an ISSN or IBSN number but even the archives in our National Library are in microfiche form and can only be accessed on the library premises and only photocopies could be made - that doesn't help to provide a digital access for Wiki's verification purposes. And I'm trying to limit the non-free copyright use to as FEW jpeg images as possible. Ditto for the Hansard Parliamentary Reports - I have the full volume/column references and would include that in the citation source but, again, there is no way to obtain an archival URL. So would that help in your Wiki review/verification pls, Kimchi, Mailer Diablo and Wikisider? Your guidance pls.
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SINPariah (
talk) 19:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC))
reply
Hi! I've stuck in a whole bunch of citations to the LTSA law and various articles. Is it better now? I'll need some time to clean up the Wiki page and say stuff in a different tone.
Kimchi - I want to better organize the stuff by adding new sections so that they appear under the "Contents" box. I don't know how to do it. Could you stick the codes and instructions in this talk page pls? Much obliged, ( SINPariah ( talk) 13:50, 3 April 2009 (UTC)) reply
Comment- I think the general consensus here tend towards having the article deleted. Therefore, I think we can do what is right now, and delete this soapbox from Wikipedia. Arbiteroftruth Plead Your Case 02:51, 4 April 2009 (UTC) reply