The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.

• Nom+1 advocate for deletion on the basis, mostly, of WP:NEO (which seems to have been reasonably well-rebutted by the article creator
• Creator+1 advocate for keeping, with Izno specifying "no prejudice against merging"
• Two advocate for merging to Glossary of video game terms, which is explicitly opposed by creator. Also proposed is is a new section at Matchmaking (video games)#Elo in video games.

Any closure here that chooses either of these option couldn't be anything but a supervote so I'm closing "no consensus", of course without prejudice to continuing talk page discussions about merging or covering this elsewhere. Ben · Salvidrim!  ✉ 14:28, 31 August 2017 (UTC) reply

Elo hell

Elo hell (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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There is an article about this on Know Your Meme, the League of Legends Wikia and Urban Dictionary. I would recommend that it remains in those places. I wouldn't have a problem redirecting to LoL's article, but this appears to be WP:NEO, and WP is not a dictionary, especially for niche gaming terms. ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ^ᐐT₳LKᐬ 05:28, 19 August 2017 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. MassiveYR ♠ 08:12, 19 August 2017 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU ^(T) 10:47, 19 August 2017 (UTC) reply

• Comment - "WP is not a dictionary, especially for niche gaming terms" Except for Category:Competitive video game terminology? The article goes beyond just a dicdef and cites more than several reliable sources that made articles specifically about the topic, meaning it's not WP:NEO. I don't see the argument for delete beyond WP:IDONTLIKEIT. As for suggesting it be merged, the term applies to a large number of games, not just League of Legends. It includes Overwatch, Rocket League, etc. And while it could be part of Elo rating system, there are enough references for it to be independently notable. _{ZXCVBNM ( TALK)} 10:56, 19 August 2017 (UTC) reply
  • No need to take this personally, man. I'm just making an argument, you make yours. ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ^ᐐT₳LKᐬ 05:19, 20 August 2017 (UTC) reply
    • I'm not saying you attacked me personally, but doing an immediate AFD without contacting me implies some degree of distrust in my faculties as an editor. Per WP:DOUBT, you could have talk page messaged me and asked for my reasoning before using the nuclear option. I'm not saying I'm afraid it won't hold up to scrutiny, but if I don't defend myself it could easily be deleted by a cavalcade of "Delete per nom". _{ZXCVBNM ( TALK)} 16:11, 20 August 2017 (UTC) reply
• Delete per WP:NEO. Power~enwiki ( talk) 03:47, 20 August 2017 (UTC) reply

  Comment - @ Power~enwiki: What part of WP:NEO does the article violate? Currently your argument is WP:VAGUEWAVE. _{ZXCVBNM ( TALK)} 04:21, 20 August 2017 (UTC) reply

  Many of the references don't use this term, and the ones that do use it generally say that it doesn't exist in the way the article defines it. Overall, the article reads like a personal essay of somebody trying to promote the term. Power~enwiki ( talk) 04:29, 20 August 2017 (UTC) reply

  @ Power~enwiki:Not all of them use the term, but there are enough that do to make the article notable.

  [1] "You’re stuck in ELO (or MMR) Hell—the popular phrase for feeling stuck at a matchmaking rank beneath your own skill level—and can’t seem to dig your way out."

  [2] "ELO Hell is when a player is stuck below what they consider to be their skill level (which is often blamed on incompetent teammates). "

  [3] "The term comes from the Elo rating system that League of Legends uses for its matchmaking. Because matchmaking has to deal with three or five players on each side, there's a lot of potential for a bad match. In Elo hell, this is exacerbated by players who have inflated ratings due to wins they probably didn't deserve[...]Elo hell is extremely frustrating because nothing worse is having your chance at winning taken out of your hands and put in the hands of a terrible player."

  [4] "In Overwatch, most of the players theoretically stuck in ELO hell are in the middle or lower skill rank of the game. It is a team sport and a group success in matches also means success for the individual players. Many Overwatch players complained that their ELO ratings are not improving because they are stuck with "inferior" team mates."

  They all seem to be in agreement to me that it is a popular term (read: not a neologism) and means the same thing as what is said in the article. _{ZXCVBNM ( TALK)} 04:34, 20 August 2017 (UTC) reply

• I'm struggling to see how this does not meet the bar for WP:NOTDICTIONARY/ WP:NEO--it not only defines the concepts but also extends that definition to its effect on the various games and players which use the term (or a derivative; as with Zxcvbnm, this is not just about the single game). The article content might reasonably be merged to video game glossary, but at the minimum, it should be a merge, not a delete. With the current sourcing, it makes a very reasonable stub. I'm a keep without prejudice to a future merge. -- Izno ( talk) 20:44, 20 August 2017 (UTC) reply
• Merge title and basics to Glossary of video game terms or elsewhere. The article is essentially about ranked matchmaking, of which the "Elo hell"-specific commentary is minor. Merge the rest to that target. Describe "Elo hell" as a term in the glossary, where others would expect to link/find it, but cover the specifics of the individual ranked matchmaking systems in the best location for Elo in video games, likely a new section of Matchmaking (video games) than a section of Elo rating system.   czar 23:10, 20 August 2017 (UTC) reply

  Suggesting a merger implies by default that the base article lacks any sort of independent notability. While it does fall under the purview of Matchmaking (video games), there are enough references (including 3 separate ones that have it in their title and are entirely about it) that it can still stand on its own, perhaps with a link to it as a main article. _{ZXCVBNM ( TALK)} 23:54, 20 August 2017 (UTC) reply

  No, it implies that the content may be in better context as part of one page than as a separate page. Ranked matchmaking is actually a pretty decent merge target for now, since that page doesn't describe the use of ELO yet (and definitely should given the prominence of ELO ranking as a matchmaking device for pairing players of similar skill potential). -- Izno ( talk) 02:51, 21 August 2017 (UTC) reply

  OTOH to my other comment, Elo rating system#Use outside of chess already exists, though it's a pile of mostly unsourced crud. -- Izno ( talk) 12:27, 21 August 2017 (UTC) reply

• Merge - to Glossary of video game terms. There's really not much in the way of actual content here. This all could be streamlined into 2 sentences at the list article - one explaining how it got its name, and one explaining the concept - and very little would be lost. The reception section, for example, isn't really so much "reception" as much as its just a few random non-essential quotes related to the concept. Sergecross73 msg me 13:26, 22 August 2017 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.