The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. There doesn't appear to be a consensus here, just two sides in disagreement. Not sure additional relisting would help in this instance.
KaisaL (
talk)
08:09, 5 March 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep per
WP:NEXIST and
WP:ARTN. Dragons are central to Anne McCaffrey's work, and any discussion of her writing will naturally examine dragons as symbols within the narrative. For example:
"The telepathic communication between dragon and rider can be seen as feminine language. Some feminist critics see language itself as masculinized. They argue that our very ideas and thoughts are structured by the male-dominated words we use. McCaffrey offers telepathy as an alternative to traditional language... In Dragonflight, telepathic communication provides an instantaneous level of trust and love between dragon and rider... That it is female characters who have this power in the greatest degree stresses its femininity. Dragonflight offers a subtle analysis of the gendering of language."
That quote is from Anne McCaffrey: A Critical Companion by Robin Roberts, Greenwood Press (1996). Here are some more sources that talk about McCaffrey's dragons:
WP:NEXIST says that the topic is notable if reliable sources exist, even if they're not currently in the article.
WP:ARTN says that the current state of the article's content doesn't affect the topic's notability -- there isn't a lot of real-world content on the page right now, but that makes it an incomplete page, not a non-notable topic. I'll post these sources on the page as a "Further reading" section, so that people who want to improve the article can use these sources. --
Toughpigs (
talk)
18:47, 17 February 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep absolutely crucial per the conversation raised by Toughpigs. This are fundamental concepts within the series, and are the center of the books as works -- there is probably a ton of work to do around cleaning up the article and making it manageable, but you don't just kill obviously notable stuff.
Sadads (
talk)
03:21, 18 February 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep I added in two references to the article, once I believe may count as significant coverage in a reliable source. Just search for "dragon" "pern" and telepathy, fire, mating, or any other such things to find more reliable sources to add and check for coverage. I agree they are a notable part of the bestselling book series, and best to just have that information in one place, instead of duplicated in so many book articles. Too much information to be in
Dragonriders of Pern so a valid spinout article.
DreamFocus00:43, 19 February 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete. Sources listed in article or in the discussion above are unfortunately mentions in passing/
WP:PLOT. All the arguments focus on in-universe notability. It does not matter for us how important dragons are to the Pern-verse (and yes, they are a key element of it, so what). What matters for us if real world notability, and nobody has shown that the dragons of Pern have been analyzed in a scholarly fashion or such. Please don't just
WP:GOOGLEHIT us with random works that appear for "dragon+Pern" search and provide information, with quotes or such, on which sources actually discuss the subject in-depth and not just as a plot summary for the novel(s).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here11:01, 19 February 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete This is a hard-to-read INUNIVERSE mess (geneticist Kitti Ping Yung is fictional, right?), consisting of mostly PLOT, with OR sprinkled in. Bits of the present material indicate that
Sexuality in Dragonriders of Pern might be a relevant topic, but we'd still be left with sourcing problems, so I'd argue for
WP:TNT here. On the other hand, if someone can wanted to have a dig at incorporating material into
Dragonriders of Pern or
Characters in Dragonriders of Pern and source it, I wouldn't be opposed. –
sgeurekat•
c13:35, 20 February 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep. Being poorly written is not a criteria for deletion. Sources exist. That they are not currently used in tbe article is not a criteria for deletion. Perhaps the problem is that the author is a woman, creates science fiction with strong female characters, and the largely male editorship of Wikipedia is not aware of the impact of her work? As her biographer says, "In making dragons, which had heretofore been featured primarily as evil beasts, into attractive companions, Anne reshaped our cultural image of them. Significantly she did so in a structure in which queen dragons were the species' leaders."[1]StarryGrandma (
talk)
15:17, 26 February 2020 (UTC)reply
I'm all for this being explored in a future article, but this current one is unsalvageable. It would be better per
WP:REDLINK to delete it so that there is space for someone to write an article on the topic that is not entirely
WP:OR.ZXCVBNM (
TALK)08:43, 27 February 2020 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.