 | This discussion was subject to a
deletion review on 2019 December 14. For an explanation of the process, see Wikipedia:Deletion review. |
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Per guidelines and practice, the only thing that matters in notability discussions is that there are good sources that can be the basis for an article. The "keep" opinions do not address this, or only assert but do not identify sources, and therefore must be given less weight. Being the first gay lead character in UK comics is probably important, and as such warrants (sourced) mention in appropriate articles e.g. about British comics, but under our guidelines it has nothing to do with whether he should be the subject of a dedicated article. Sandstein 08:18, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
Devlin Waugh
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- Devlin Waugh ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Fictional character. No evidence of stand-alone notability. Not a shred of analysis. Pure WP:PLOT and list of appearances in media. Fails WP:PLOT, WP:GNG, WP:NFICTION. BEFORE shows nothing that's not in passing or a plot summary. Deprodded by User:Necrothesp with no rationale. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:20, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:20, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose deletion. Is the titular character of several graphic novels (
see Amazon search), so there is a reasonable prospect of an encyclopedic article being written from a real-world perspective.— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Nicknack009 (
talk •
contribs) 17:03, November 28, 2019 (UTC)
- If said graphic novels are notable (have reviews, awards) we could redirect this there if you or anyone else would stub such an article. But I don't see said reviews/awards myself. Being a main characters in several minor comic books does not seem to meet
WP:GNG. One could argue that therefore any character who has a book (movie, etc.) named after them is notable. I don't think that is a good idea. --
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
10:23, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
- Agreed, but Rebellion/2000AD is a significant comics publisher. I think a character who has his own series from a significant publisher has at least the potential for notability and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. -- Nicknack009 ( talk) 12:49, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
- If said graphic novels are notable (have reviews, awards) we could redirect this there if you or anyone else would stub such an article. But I don't see said reviews/awards myself. Being a main characters in several minor comic books does not seem to meet
WP:GNG. One could argue that therefore any character who has a book (movie, etc.) named after them is notable. I don't think that is a good idea. --
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
10:23, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction-related deletion discussions. 08:54, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics-related deletion discussions. 08:54, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
- Comment. Isn’t this a part of the Waugh universe? If so the reasonably developed content should be considered for merge WP:Before deletion. Gleeanon409 ( talk) 10:37, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
- Delete There are no reliable sources that discuss this character. Also, we should avoid giving articles to every single character who has a few obscure graphic novels devoted to them. ― Susmuffin Talk 10:39, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
- Keep - first homosexual lead character in a UK comic is likely to be notable independently of the stories themselves.
Richard75 (
talk)
00:39, 29 November 2019 (UTC) P.S. -
A source.
- Good point but it not enough to say WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES, you need to find them. And blogs are sadly not enough, per WP:RS. Did anyone write about this in a proper media like newspaper, magazine or an academic work? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:48, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
- Delete not every lead character is notable. Wikipedia has too many fancruft articles without us embracing that obsurdity. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 03:12, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
- Delete. Pure PLOT. Not a shred of analysis. Fails GNG/NFICTION. Kacper IV ( talk) 11:50, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
- Analysis can always be added. Notability is not determined by existing content, but by whether sources exist for such content to be added. Richard75 ( talk) 12:31, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
- Keep. Per the reasoning above, being the first character of his kind from a notable publisher, and evidence sources do exist. It may take work but it seems apparent that a good article is possible despite all the material removed. Gleeanon409 ( talk) 13:41, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
- Delete or Redirect to List of minor characters in Judge Dredd - Jay ( talk) 06:08, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Need more discussion about Richard75's sources, in particular
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:10, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
Relisting comment: Need more discussion about Richard75's sources, in particular
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:10, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
- Delete - Only a single source seems to be of any importance, but that's not enough for an article. It should probably be added somewhere relevant though. TTN ( talk) 12:37, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
- Selective merge to List of minor characters in Judge Dredd. His being the first openly gay lead character in a UK comic does indeed make him bit notable, but it doesn't mean he needs a stand-alone article, especially since there are barely any sources that discuss this fact. A mention in a character list is exactly the right kind of middle-ground. – sgeureka t• c 12:51, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
- Delete - another bit of fancruft consisting virtually of all plot and publication history. Fails WP:GNG. Redirecting to List of minor characters in Judge Dredd wouldn't be appropriate, since they aren't mentioned there. Onel5969 TT me 15:07, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
- They're not mentioned there because they're covered here. Richard75 ( talk) 16:27, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
- Keep. Subject of several graphic novels and significant as the first gay character in British comics. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 16:59, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
- A review comparing Devlin with other gay comic characters (some way down; search for "first openly gay"). Richard75 ( talk) 20:48, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. ミラ P 21:37, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. ミラ P 21:37, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. ミラ P 21:37, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.