Denial of the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel
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For similar reasons as the previous nomination. The page still does not address a notable subject and therefore fails WP:GNG. Duke of New Gwynedd ( talk | contrib.) 00:01, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the
deletion sorting lists for the following topics:
Israel and
Palestine.
Duke of New Gwynedd (
talk |
contrib.)
00:01, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Where is the last AfD so we can compare?
Oaktree b (
talk)
02:22, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- The last AfD came when the article was titled at
Denial of the 7 October attacks, and thus is at
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Denial of the 7 October attacks. (I have no opinion or further comment.)
WCQuidditch
☎
✎
03:11, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oh boy, I remember that one... Yes, I'm not keen on wading into that again either. Oaktree b ( talk) 05:07, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- The last AfD came when the article was titled at
Denial of the 7 October attacks, and thus is at
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Denial of the 7 October attacks. (I have no opinion or further comment.)
WCQuidditch
☎
✎
03:11, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Where is the last AfD so we can compare?
Oaktree b (
talk)
02:22, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Conspiracy theories and Military. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 03:12, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete or merge into the parent. Quite so. It doesn't address a notable subject. The page largely revolves around and is organised based on one Washington Post piece, as broadcast loudly and proudly by its horribly unencyclopedic first sentence. "Denial" topics normally only emerge when supported by the weight of significant scholarship. What we have here is instead a collection of WP:NOTNEWS-flouting material, with one US news piece used as a washing line to string up a mixed bag of Israeli news pieces WP:COATRACK-style. Iskandar323 ( talk) 10:36, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
keep but balance - It's currently skewed and opinionated, but it's a widely discussed topic that might warrant inclusion. It should possibly be expanded to include famine denial in the other direction. Denialism (and accusations of it) are closely related to misinformation, but not quite the same concept, so it doesn't fit as a section of that article to merge. MWQs ( talk) 13:55, 6 July 2024 (UTC)WP:SOCKSTRIKE Walsh90210 ( talk) 01:12, 13 July 2024 (UTC)- Comment I keep hearing about people denying that Hamas really did this or that Hamas really did that, mostly rumor-level, so my knee-jerk is that reliable sourcing for an article on this subject probably exists, either under its current subject or refocused to conspiracy theories about the 2023-2024 Israel-Gaza conflict more generally. Per MWQ, I'd be willing to vote keep if we have even one Wikipedian who volunteers to do the considerable work of making the necessary improvements. Darkfrog24 ( talk) 19:29, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep or Merge. Seems reliable enough sourcing. Needs some rework, its hard to read in some places in its current form. The background section should probably just be an excerpt from the original article. A lot more quotes than necessary too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluethricecreamman ( talk • contribs)
- Delete - POV fork. Carrite ( talk) 22:53, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Of which article? gidonb ( talk) 01:15, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. I would say "merge", but the content of the article is somewhat indiscriminately written, and I don't think it really belongs anywhere. It is citing all kinds of silly stuff like "some people on Reddit said something dumb" -- #wow #whoa.
In March 2024 the Israeli firm CyberWell, which uses artificial intelligence (AI) to monitor, analyze and combat antisemitism on social media
sounds like it fell off the back of a press kit -- frankly, half the stuff in here sounds like that. We should not just be directly regurgitating stuff we find in PDFs on think tanks' websites about the malnarrative playbook or whatever. jp× g 🗯️ 09:01, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep per GNG. Not sure why this was nominated again. There are about 50 references in Hewiki. This means that the subject has been well-covered. There is also legislation to mitigate this denial. The Enwiki article relies heavily on one reference but WP:AFDISNOTCLEANUP. Objecting also to the proposed content drift, suggested above. gidonb ( talk) 01:12, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I don't see a strong enough consensus yet. There are editors who believe the subject can be notable but the current article is problematic.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 00:57, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete second JPxG's arguments. I'd suggest a merge, but there's really not much to salvage. Vanilla Wizard 💙 02:18, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per JPxG. As anticipated at the previous deletion discussion five months ago, it has proven impossible to find a source-based coherent scope here. The content is an unnecessary fork from Misinformation in the Israel–Hamas war. Onceinawhile ( talk) 09:11, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Non notable subject. Selfstudier ( talk) 14:59, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. This is a notable subject, but poorly covered in the article. ꧁
Zanahary꧂
18:27, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Some sources establishing notability (I'm not double checking reliability though, so this list may include some articles that don't qualify to establish notability. I'm including ADL because I'm not sure what that RfC meant for establishment of notability.):
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-792968
https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/byctjmo1r
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/denial-and-distortion-hamas-led-october-7-attack-overview-false-narratives
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-07-07/ty-article-opinion/.premium/the-chutzpah-of-the-october-7-deniers/00000190-89b4-d8b2-a3b6-fdff369a0000
https://www.smh.com.au/national/the-denial-and-disinformation-facing-october-7-survivors-20240630-p5jpy2.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/01/21/hamas-attack-october-7-conspiracy-israel/
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/denialism-wake-oct-7-massacre
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-794596
https://www.newsweek.com/holocaust-remembrance-means-rooting-out-oct-7-denial-opinion-1864346
https://forward.com/opinion/574713/holocaust-denial-belief-oct-7-hamas-israel/
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-785628
https://www.irishtimes.com/history/2023/11/10/too-many-people-are-in-denial-about-events-of-october-7th-says-israeli-ambassador/
https://jewishinsider.com/2024/04/the-effort-to-document-the-events-of-oct-7-for-posterity-and-against-the-deniers/
https://www.nysun.com/article/as-october-7-deniers-emerge-we-could-use-a-man-like-dwight-eisenhower-again ꧁ Zanahary꧂ 18:34, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Some sources establishing notability (I'm not double checking reliability though, so this list may include some articles that don't qualify to establish notability. I'm including ADL because I'm not sure what that RfC meant for establishment of notability.):
- just a quick reply (this is not intended as a counterargument, I have not reviewed all of these sources) – just wanted to inform you that the ADL cannot be used as a source on these subjects since I noticed at least a couple of those links are to the ADL website. See WP:ADLPIA. Vanilla Wizard 💙 19:09, 13 July 2024 (UTC)