The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was move to User:Onetwothreeip/Demographics of the Western Balkans. Consensus is that this topic should not have an article. However, the data may be useful for other articles so I am preserving the content for people to reuse. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 15:59, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Demographics of the Western Balkans (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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An overwhelmingly large and WP:INDISCRIMINATE collection of statistics. The topic itself, applying specifically to "Western Balkans" is unlikely to be useful and much better to be covered in other articles. Onetwothreeip ( talk) 23:50, 15 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Kpg jhp jm 02:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albania-related deletion discussions. Kpg jhp jm 02:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bosnia and Herzegovina-related deletion discussions. Kpg jhp jm 02:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Croatia-related deletion discussions. Kpg jhp jm 02:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Kosovo-related deletion discussions. Kpg jhp jm 02:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Macedonia-related deletion discussions. Kpg jhp jm 02:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Montenegro-related deletion discussions. Kpg jhp jm 02:42, 16 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Serbia-related deletion discussions. Kpg jhp jm 02:42, 16 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Slovenia-related deletion discussions. Kpg jhp jm 02:42, 16 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Please do not delete this article. This article is very useful for studying the demographics of the Western Balkan countries as well as any information presented therein. I put a lot of effort into gathering all the information and making this article. Thank you. Ripas1997 ( talk 13:24, 16 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Keep as per WP:LISTN. This has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, this google search has a very large amount of reliable sources that treat the Western Balkans as a set and deal with their demographics as such. User:Zoozaz1 ( talk

• Delete - a duplication of content from other demographics articles and a WP:POVFORK magnet. The lead itself describes "Western Balkans" as "a political neologism", which ought to be a nod to many ways to categorise these countries politically. We don't even have articles about more commonly used and clearly defined regions such as Demographics of East Asia, Demographics of the Arabian Peninsula, Demographics of Sub-Saharan Africa etc., perhaps because when you take into account that this is a motley collection (and duplication) of statistics collected by different countries under different methodologies and in different political climates, there isn't much knowledge that can be attained from this information. An example of this pitfall comes up as one of the first links in Zoozaz1's web search above. It's true that something can be said about the demographics of Balkans countries as a group, and maybe even something about the countries grouped under Western Balkans specifically, but not so much that it wouldn't fit in the Balkans article. (There isn't even anything of that sort to merge here; the article consists solely of an explanation of what Western Balkans is, followed by a WP:SYNTH amalgamation of possibly WP:NOTSTAT numbers.) Daß  Wölf 19:04, 16 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Use of the term really only applies to post-Cold War, and generally regarding the European Union. During and before the Cold War, Yugoslavia and Albania were not particularly connected, which is when most of the statistics describe. The term does not have much relation to the demographics of those countries. Onetwothreeip ( talk) 23:09, 16 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Comment - If this article is deleted, would the deleting admin please keep a copy of the article in my user space? There is a lot of data here which could be useful for other articles. Onetwothreeip ( talk) 23:09, 16 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Delete - agree with Daß Wölf here. Most of the content of the article is about individual countries, so simply duplicates what we have elsewhere. The state of Wikipedia's demographic coverage is bad enough as it is without duplicating efforts. Material about the demography of the region as a whole can be covered at Balkans#Demographics. Cordless Larry ( talk) 09:10, 17 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Comment. As already noted in the earlier comments, there may be two problems here. I'm not sure if the "Western Balkans" is a unifying concept in the way e.g. "European Union" or "Scandinavia" are. It doesn't even have a standalone article. The second problem is its organization (cf. Demographics of the European Union). GregorB ( talk) 13:38, 17 April 2020 (UTC) reply

I deleted the tables relating to the individual demographics of the Western Balkan countries and set those tables in the articles relating to the demographics of those countries. Now this article is much smaller in size, and contains only data related to the overall demographic of the Western Balkans. If you like, you can also add prose related to this topic and help to finish this topic completely. I think now the article is ok and should not be deleted. Ripas1997 ( talk 20:36, 17 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Delete - The article claims that the Western Balkans roughly correspond to the area covered by the Dinaric Alps. This definition is pretty problematic due to the fact that the Dinaric Alps cover less than a half of Croatian territory. In Croatia the Dinaric Alps divide the coastline from the Continental part of Croatia, which is mostly flat and covered by the Pannonian plain which extends into neighbouring Serbia which is also a subject of this article. Similarly can be said for Slovenia. Due to this, this article's Croatian language version was deleted from the Croatian language Wikipedia and due to wrong use of punctuation (the one present in the English language) and because of bad translation (some weird Serbian and Croatian hybrid, not to be confused with the artificial Serbo-Croatian language) and because of original research. It's also worth mentioning that the Western Balkans are a political division, not a geographical, demographical, cultural or historical division. Due to this I support the article's deletion. -- Croxyz ( talk) 13:49, 18 April 2020 (UTC) reply

When will this discussion be completed and when will it be decided whether to delete this article? Can you tell approximately in how many days this will be over? Ripas1997 ( talk 16:41, 18 April 2020 (UTC) reply

AfD discussions typically last for a week, but can be extended if there isn't consensus at that point. Cordless Larry ( talk) 19:01, 18 April 2020 (UTC) reply

What needs to be changed in the article so that it is not deleted?Could this article stay with some changes? Ripas1997 ( talk 15:08, 21 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Delete This just looks like a bunch of graphs and random numbers. Not sure how it's notable or relevant. Demographic information for each country in the Western Balkans is probably more appropriate Royal Autumn Crest ( talk) 14:31, 21 April 2020 (UTC) reply

I set demographics for each Western Balkan country, but the article was too long, and that was why they put this article in the deletion discussion. So I had to delete it to not be too long an article, unfortunately. Ripas1997 ( talk 16:45, 21 April 2020 (UTC) reply

The length of the article is not the main issue here, Ripas1997, and is not in itself a reason for deletion. Cordless Larry ( talk) 20:26, 21 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Delete per WP:NOT. b uidh e 19:38, 21 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Delete - As stated above, "Western Balkans" is an arbitrary, recently determined political concept without a cultural, historical, geographical, et cetera background to justify it. This cleavage in the data between the Balkans generally and the "Western Balkans" is frustrating and problematic. I agree. Deletion seems to be the right call. CoffeeWithMarkets ( talk) 09:21, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.