The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The information covered in this article is not notable, because nothing historically or culturally significant happened at the funeral itself (unlike say at
Death and state funeral of Joseph Stalin). The info in here can just be in the death section of
George H.W. Bush. The vast majority of articles about the death and state funerals of politicians cover events which were not inherently notable, with the only notability being secondary because the subject was notable - unlike the Josef Stalin one - in which many victims of his cult of personality died in a human crush at his funeral. Additionally, most death and state funeral articles are about Western politicians. I don't think we should have and keep adding articles about the deaths + state funerals of Western politicians when nothing significant happened because of these events, considering we usually don't do that for non-Western politicians. A lot of other non-Western politicians also leave a notable metaphysical impact on the world through the policies they implement, and since their time in office usually defines why they're notable - not the aftermath of their death - the same principle should apply to Western politicians. Important info about his death and funeral is already covered in
George H. W. Bush#Death and funeral, so including it here again is repetitive, and the rest is just excess which isn’t notable. So it should just be deleted, there's nothing of substance here which isn’t in the original article, therefore merging isn’t necessary
Stephanie921 (
talk)
21:56, 3 September 2022 (UTC)reply
The assertion that there's nothing of substance here which isn’t in the original article is utter nonsense. Even in the lead I found two points of substance:
President Donald Trump declared a national day of mourning and ordered all flags "throughout the United States and its Territories and possessions" lowered to half staff for 30 days after his death
About a dozen world leaders attended the event
I started on the next para, but there was so much detail on his final days that isn't in the main article that it was too much work to copy it all.
Keep. State funerals are rare events, usually attended by world leaders and that receive significant media coverage. I'd be happy to see such articles about state funerals for non-Western former heads of state that receive similar coverage. That argument seems to be
other stuff doesn't exist.
331dot (
talk)
22:45, 3 September 2022 (UTC)reply
My main concern is that the subject is not by itself notable. The notability all comes from Bush himself, not the acc death and funeral. The article about Bush already covers it concisely as it pertains to him, and the media coverage all stem from his legacy @
User:331dotStephanie921 (
talk)
23:22, 3 September 2022 (UTC)reply
This article has existed for four years without a problem. It covers much more detailed information than the one paragraph in the article about Bush himself. Adding this all to that article would make it too long. "The media coverage all stem from his legacy", yes, that happens with heads of state. If he were a nobody, his funeral would likely not warrant an article.
331dot (
talk)
23:52, 3 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Keep This AfD nomination was likely not started because of the merits of
Death and state funeral of George H. W. Bush itself, but rather because the page was mentioned by !voters at the deletion nomination of
Death and funeral of Mikhail Gorbachev as an example of precedent for such articles existing on the encyclopedia, while the nom's stated opinion is that "Death and funeral of <x>" articles are inherently non notable. Notability is determined by sources, and this article's sourcing demonstrates that this event was extensively covered. The topic is also significant enough that it passed an ITN/C discussion and was featured on the front page of the encyclopedia for a time. There's more than enough information here to justify a page separate from the biographical article
George H. W. Bush. In my opinion, it's not a great practice to start new AfD discussions just to make a point at another AfD discussion. Maybe if the Gorbachev one closed with a consensus to delete (which looks very unlikely) then there'd be a better case for nominating other ones, but right now this feels a bit
POINTy. Vanilla Wizard 💙19:24, 4 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Keep, the article includes details that would not be included in the main article due to it being too long, so I see no reason for the page to be deleted.
Sahaib (
talk)
20:39, 4 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Keep - obviously, if only because this is a completely valid content fork so as to avoid overwhelming the parent article with undue coverage of his death and funeral. Silly nom imo. nableezy -
00:10, 5 September 2022 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.