The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to T. E. Lawrence. MBisanz ^talk 01:11, 5 June 2017 (UTC) reply

Dahoum

Dahoum (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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I'm not exactly sure what this article is supposed to be about. OK, so he was a kid who worked with TE Lawrence some, but the article itself seems to be about (largely debunked) insinuations about his "relationship" with Lawrence which the latter's biographers do not find convincing (as noted in the rather messy section on his article about his sexuality).

This article is just thinly-veiled insinuation with some completely unremarkable biographical details thrown in. The vast majority of the sources I've been able to find online have erected him as some sort of LGBT icon, which doesn't seem to meet the bar for inclusion here for the reason I just noted.

I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks about this. I don't personally think it even warrants a merge into Lawrence's article. Kakurokuna ( talk) 20:47, 21 May 2017 (UTC) reply

• weak keep - He was a real person, but it’s clear that he only is notable in his connection with T.E. Lawrence. While it has not been proved, it is fairly widely believed among Lawrence scholars that Dahoum is the “S.A.” to whom Seven Pillars of Wisdom is dedicated, and the subject of Lawrence’s remark “I loved a particular Arab, and thought freedom for their nation would be an acceptable gift.” For me, that crosses the notability bar, but I can see that there is room for debate on the subject. I believe there was some news coverage of Dahoum’s pre-war visit to Britain, arranged by Lawrence and in company with another local resident of the Carchemish area; but I’ve never taken the trouble to dig it up. Tim Bray ( talk) 21:41, 22 May 2017 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Syria-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:50, 28 May 2017 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:51, 28 May 2017 (UTC) reply

• Merge - I don't think he is notable enough in his own right to have a page, but certainly notable enough to be merged with Lawrence. PohranicniStraze ( talk) 04:57, 28 May 2017 (UTC) reply
• Delete (or redirect) -- My immediate reaction to this was NOTINHERITED. I do not think the tag for facts being unverified is appropriate. The article sets out the issues clearly. Lawrence died in a motor cycle accident some 80 years ago and the subject nearly a century ago: as often with historical subjects, certainly is impossible. The subject's only potential notability comes from his connection with Lawrence, at a period of his life when Lawrence was a not particularly notable young archaeologist. The whole thing seems to be a COATHANGER for the innuendo that Lawrence was gay, an issue of which I know little. However I am disturbed at the number of historical figures whom the LGBT lobby has appropriated to its cause, often on the basis of very limited evidence. Peterkingiron ( talk) 09:31, 29 May 2017 (UTC) reply
• Delete as NOTINHERITED; no opinion on a redirect to T. E. Lawrence. Power~enwiki ( talk) 20:51, 29 May 2017 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 14:40, 30 May 2017 (UTC) reply

• Redirect to T. E. Lawrence, or else weak keep (but rename) if someone wants to put in a lot of legwork here. Dahoum was a real person, and he's discussed in quite a bit of real literature—respected biographies and scholarly publications—but, so far as I can determine, always in context to his relationship with Lawrence (whether that's his work relationship, as a photographer, and the potential that some of the photographs accredited to Lawrence were taken by Dahoum instead; or the theorized homosexual relationship, which modern sources are pretty divided on, but which the contemporary Arabs certainly believed was actually occurring). There's simply no coverage of him separate from the actions of Lawrence, and that's pretty much the keystone of NOTINHERITED. That said, I could be proven wrong here; if the article is to be retained, I'd strongly suggest we title it under the individual's real name, Selim Ahmed, with a redirect from his (widely used) sobriquet. Squeamish Ossifrage ( talk) 17:41, 30 May 2017 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.