- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Delete. At this point, there are too many problems with verification. No prejudice to recreation if additional sources can be found. Randykitty ( talk) 16:16, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- D. Dashdondog ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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I'm really not sure about this one. He seems to have been a higher official in the trade ministry of the Mongolian People's Republic. In this function he was member of an "International Council for Commercial Arbitration" between 1965 and 1986. He seems to have authored at least one publication on international trade topics, although it remains unclear if this was a personal work or a government publication. The classification as a "lawyer" is also somewhat unclear, as all his noted work was related to his position as a government official under a communist regime. I have tried to find his full name. The arbitration council reports list him as "Dawaashabin Dashdondog", which doesn't give a clear indication of the original form in Mongolian ("shabin" is not a common name component).
Do we have enough material to determine notability here? Unless someone takes the effort to dig through the archives in Mongolia, I don't expect to find much more information. Latebird ( talk) 11:11, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
Keep Government ministers are notable.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:28, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Mongolia-related deletion discussions. Everymorning talk to me 11:46, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 1000 11:52, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
- Comment: He wasn't a minister, but an employee of the ministry. -- Latebird ( talk) 16:23, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete Article asserts he worked in a ministry, says nothing about being a minister. Nothing stated (never mind sourced)in the article supports its subject being notable. Pol098 ( talk) 16:33, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
- Comment: Hmm, I am wondering whether he might be notable as an author of books on economy somehow. The book on breeding cattle was reissued rather recently, in 2013. I am also wondering what motivated Blofeld to create an article just on this person. Just as the article looks now, notability clearly isn't demonstrated. I hope, overall, that the deletion process takes at least one week, so that Blofeld might be able to come up with some evidence before it is over. I also want to remind Blofeld of the possibility to have this article moved to his user space, so that he can - after retrieving relevant evidence maybe from Mongolia - establish its notability and reenter it into public space. For important Mongolians, especially of his generation, relevant sources are much more likely to be found in the archieves than on the internet. G Purevdorj ( talk) 17:32, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 1000 17:40, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
- Comment. The Mongolian Wikipedia mentions him in in passing here A Google Books search gives 19 results. Some seem to be the same guy. Do we have any Mongolian language experts? I don't see any names at Wikipedia:WikiProject Mongols. Aymatth2 ( talk) 02:38, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
- Most of these sources are Russian. Without any additional knowledge, identifying our D. Dashdondog with the authors is only easy in the first case, a dictionary on terminology from economics. The Mongolian article just states the same as the English, that he was National Arbiter of Mongolia for 21 years. Just given the current (dangerous and undemocratic, but anyway) developments to create obligatory instances for arbitration before international committees, I'd say that this position is one of exceedingly high influence, en pair with a justice of a national court (who are probably entitled to get an article of their own). The problem is: 1. how was it then? Was he as influential in Soviet times as he in this position would be now? 2. One year book of commercial arbitration doesn't cover the entire period. 3. We have no information on his activities as arbitrator (and about the contracts on arbration Mongolia would have been subject to in the 20 years under question).
G Purevdorj (
talk) 15:59, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
- I dug a bit on the web and then gave up. There is an author of a 2012 book on dairy economics [1], just possibly the same person, chairman of a committee in the Bagakhangai district of Ulan Bator [2], maybe also the same person, and so on. I don't see any urgent need to delete the article, but it could certainly use attention from someone with the right language skills. Whatever positions he held, do any sources say anything significant about his life, works or career? Aymatth2 ( talk) 17:51, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
- I would already be quite happy to just learn his correctly spelled full name. Without that it's really hard to tell if theres only one book author or several. --
Latebird (
talk) 22:20, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
- Even the complete name won't help you on that, because in the majority of books the full name of the father is simply not given. At any rate, there is also a poet around whose name is Dondogdorjiin Dashdondog. I tried to call the arbiter's office in Mongolia today, as the information about the time we worked as the chief arbiter found on Mongolian Wikipedia was originally retrieved from their website. However, their general secretary stated they have no information about this person. At one presumes that forgetting reflects historical importance (which I doubt), this would be an argument that he was indeed not a very significant person. But even if he had been, how is this significance ever to be established unless some historian does a study first or, of course, we are overlooking the existence of such a study? I guess I am ready to admit defeat. G Purevdorj ( talk) 07:34, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
- I would already be quite happy to just learn his correctly spelled full name. Without that it's really hard to tell if theres only one book author or several. --
Latebird (
talk) 22:20, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks. Well, I think some information is better than none. We have articles on thousands of minor US sports stars and local officials, why shouldn't we have work on an official who worked for the national trade ministry of the Mongolian People's Republic? The head of the treaty-law section of the MPR Ministry of Foreign Trade implies notability in itself.♦
Dr. Blofeld 16:31, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
- I'm afraid it doesn't imply that. Not even elected politicians are automatically notable, The key to notability is significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject of the article, which unfortunately we have been unable to find here. What we do have is the following:
- A name, which we are uncertain how to spell correctly.
- Some books, which may or may not have been written by the same person.
- Participation in an organisation of unclear significance (at the time), with zero evidence of any contributions there.
- A statement from his former employer amounting to "we don't really remember him".
- I don't see how this sheer lack of information could in any way be useful to our readers. I was really hoping that Purevdorj would manage to learn something more interesting there. Thanks for trying anyway. -- Latebird ( talk) 22:04, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
- I'm afraid it doesn't imply that. Not even elected politicians are automatically notable, The key to notability is significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject of the article, which unfortunately we have been unable to find here. What we do have is the following:
- Most of these sources are Russian. Without any additional knowledge, identifying our D. Dashdondog with the authors is only easy in the first case, a dictionary on terminology from economics. The Mongolian article just states the same as the English, that he was National Arbiter of Mongolia for 21 years. Just given the current (dangerous and undemocratic, but anyway) developments to create obligatory instances for arbitration before international committees, I'd say that this position is one of exceedingly high influence, en pair with a justice of a national court (who are probably entitled to get an article of their own). The problem is: 1. how was it then? Was he as influential in Soviet times as he in this position would be now? 2. One year book of commercial arbitration doesn't cover the entire period. 3. We have no information on his activities as arbitrator (and about the contracts on arbration Mongolia would have been subject to in the 20 years under question).
G Purevdorj (
talk) 15:59, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
If somebody could create an article on Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (Mongolia) then you could probably mention this person in passing rather than a separate article.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:48, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica 1000 16:03, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
- Delete. The information to assess the significance of this person is unavailable, as is his full name. It doesn't seem that this will change soon, and there is not even any concrete reason to believe that D. Dashdondog might have been significant. G Purevdorj ( talk) 16:33, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.