- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. The rough consensus turns into a clear consensus once the blocked socks and the non-P&G-based (canvassed?) !votes are discarded. Owen× ☎ 18:25, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Crien Bolhuis-Schilstra
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- Crien Bolhuis-Schilstra ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
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I can't find evidence of notability, the only indepth source is this, published by Scouting.nl, i.e. the organisation she worked for (not an independent source). The other sources are primary sources or passing mentions. Fram ( talk) 08:40, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Merge into section of Vereeniging Nederlandsch Indische Padvinders, removing biographical info, keeping the scouting CV, POW information. The content is notable, even if the author is not notable enough. - Bogger ( talk) 10:46, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, History, Military, Scouting, Indonesia, and Netherlands. Fram ( talk) 08:40, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep There are sufficient details here to merit keeping the article. -- evrik ( talk) 13:36, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- That's not a policy based reason to keep or delete articles. Which sources are independent and indepth? Fram ( talk) 13:43, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: Well referenced figure, historically notable. –DMartin 02:15, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: Subject is notable and reliably sourced. WC gudang inspirasi ( Read! Talk!) 14:32, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: My vote is obviously to keep it; I wrote the article as I deemed it historically significant and notable. Cflam01 ( talk) 14:51, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
It would be nice if anyone would actually address the nomination, and indicate which sources are (as required) independent of the subject and giving indepth coverage. The only indepth coverage I see is from a Dutch scouting site, so not independent (an organisation writing about aspects of its own history). Fram ( talk) 15:03, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete as a clear WP:GNG failure. Without any sources that support notability, it is unclear if and how much content should be moved to Vereeniging Nederlandsch Indische Padvinders (correctly identified as a potential target by Bogger). So a BIG NO to merge. Redirect isn't right either, as Bolhuis-Schilstra was not organically included in the body of the target (only as possible other reading). Hence this should default to delete. Thanks to Fram for nominating. By no means the first time we see excessive Dutch scouting biographies. gidonb ( talk) 19:00, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
- BTW, this article is the best I could find, and isn't good enough: "'Mijn leven in Indië', door een oudleerlinge van de Koloniale school." Haagsche Courant. 's-Gravenhage, 11-03-1937. Geraadpleegd op Delpher op 16-06-2024, https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=MMKB04:000149139:mpeg21:p018 gidonb ( talk) 21:23, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: the keep !votes above are extremely weak and should obviously be dismissed by the closer, while a quick look at the "well referenced" article shows a distinct lack of WP:SIGCOV at all. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 ( talk) 16:36, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete As per AirshipJungleman29's comments directly above.
- Axad12 ( talk) 18:37, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Malinaccier ( talk) 14:05, 20 June 2024 (UTC)- I thank you all for your efforts to maintain and improve Wikipedia. While I understand that concerns regarding
WP:GNG and
WP:SIGCOV are certainly valid in this case, I'd like to make a proposition here that Bolhuis-Schilstra's story may be an important piece of historical information that sheds light on some of the humanitarian efforts during WWII. Her work as a scout leader in helping the sick is a testament to the resilience and compassion of humanity during a time of great turmoil, which I believe should be preserved and made known regardless of current notability and coverage. As for the "excessive Dutch scouting biographies", each of these articles provides unique insights into their contributions and experiences, showcasing the diverse stories and achievements within the scouting movement from WWII which again should be preserved in my opinion. Furthermore,
WP:IAR exists to guide us towards maintaining and improving our content on Wikipedia, so in this case, ignoring concerns about notability and coverage would help us preserve and further document this piece of history that provides valuable insights into such an important historical period. While I can't stop you from voting for deletion, I kindly urge the closer to consider these points.
Cflam01 (
talk) 21:05, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
- While I am not voting on this nomination, I would like to point out that notability is a policy and we generally do not give IAR exemptions to articles when it comes to the notability guidelines. If there is a desire to share her story if Wikipedia is not suitable,
alternative outlets exist.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 00:32, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for the clarification. It's just that Java camp experiences are extremely uncovered and that articles like this on Wikipedia help bring such stories to the light. I just think this kind of information should be known and not gatekept. I'll go seek alternative outlets if this AfD is a delete, I get it. Cflam01 ( talk) 08:24, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- @ Cflam01: I may offer to rescue this for my own Miraheze site, thanks to your testimonial. Send me a line if further discussion ensues. -- Slgrandson ( How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 21:32, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- While I am not voting on this nomination, I would like to point out that notability is a policy and we generally do not give IAR exemptions to articles when it comes to the notability guidelines. If there is a desire to share her story if Wikipedia is not suitable,
alternative outlets exist.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 00:32, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. Searched Google books and found nothing. Sources presented in the article doesn't pass WP:GNG. Twinkle1990 ( talk) 15:24, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. This is important story and I think it should be kept. The Scouting movement is very large so many scouting references are independent of the author or the topic. It does need more sources however, Bduke ( talk) 04:56, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
- WP:ITSIMPORTANT. gidonb ( talk) 18:26, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. I suspect that there has been canvassing to this page. gidonb ( talk) 18:29, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. Nothing supporting GNG in the newspaper archives I've looked through. JoelleJay ( talk) 02:09, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. Per nom, and the fact that this is the primary source for this subject demonstrates that the subject lacks notability. Ckfasdf ( talk) 15:36, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.