I have been notified that there has been direct retaliation against an editor who voted Keep.
User_talk:009o9#Question_about_WikiHounding
Apparently, the AfD procedure was usurped, with blanking and redirects on two of the (Keep) voter's articles, obviously taken directly from the editor's contributions list.
Wikipedia:Harassment#Wikihounding While investigating, I have come to realize that 100% of the editors involved with the deletion effort in discussion here (including the speedy) are administrators and are in contact with each other in some form. I am also cognizant that the deletion nominations are likely the direct result of my compliance with the
Foundation's rules on disclosing paid editing. (A reference to paid editing is made in virtually every communication.) I expected problems resultant from disclosure, from those who will not tolerate paid-editing. This incident seems to confirm the expectation that very few
WP:COI and
WP:PAY editors will be willing to disclose their positions and adopt Foundation policy, even if they are perfectly capable of NPOV writing.
This is just a guess, but by blanking and redirecting (instead of using the AfD process), if the editor did not remove the internal links on the parent page, they will now be circular references to themselves. Likely not a problem for the Wikipedia servers, but the reader will surely be confused when they have followed a circular redirect and end up reloading content, but going nowhere.
009o9 (
talk)
21:58, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
reply
- I've said my piece on the sources and there has been precedent at AfD where we consider news coverage trivial if it has been predominantly taken from a press release. I outlined the sources a second time because ultimately there have been people who will come to AfD and state an argument without actually looking at the sources because they'll assume that a lot of sources means that some of them must show notability, which isn't the case here. And again, the Billboard mention is trivial because the article isn't about the company itself. As far as the other editor blanking the articles goes, he didn't blank them- he redirected them, which is fully within his rights to do. If an article has issues with notability and an editor cannot find sources, it is reasonable for them to
WP:BEBOLD and redirect to an article as opposed to putting it through the deletion process. I do not see where either article (
Bytemarks Café or
Albert Okura: The Chicken Man with a 50 Year Plan) was put up for AfD, so there wasn't any usurping. If the editor wants, they can request that it be run through a formal AfD process. Now as far as you saying that myself or RandyKitty are hounding anyone out of malice or retribution, feel free to bring it up at
WP:ANI.
Tokyogirl79
(。◕‿◕。)
04:11, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
reply
- I do have to add one thing- the thing about your paid editing is that there was concern over your initial reaction to my recommendations over the article and my comments over the coverage. The advice I gave you on the article's talk page and the stuff I've posted here is something that you will get from pretty much any editor that is experienced with editing and reliable sources, yet you tried to argue that the promotional staff bio section should remain and that the trivial sources were enough to assert notability. The thing that concerned myself and others was how you approached coverage in reliable sources, as it didn't seem that you really understood
WP:RS very well. That's troublesome with a COI editor, as paid editors are expected to know our policy on coverage in reliable sources very, very well and while they are paid to upload articles on to Wikipedia, they're also expected to abide by our editing and notability policies. We've had paid editors that have not only been transparent about their COI, but also followed our policies to a T, so it is possible to be a paid editor and not receive harassment. It's just that we've had a lot of paid editors (I'd say anywhere from 75-90%) that have come on here and disregarded policies or tried to twist them to make it appear that something met guidelines, so people are understandably cautious when it comes to paid editors.
Tokyogirl79
(。◕‿◕。)
04:24, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
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- @User:Tokyogirl79 I will always respect those who give me inline help and I did do some rearranging on the ContentBridge article based directly from your suggestions and I thank you. (I contend the writing is factual, some passages needed work on flow, which did tone it down.) I was trying to work with you on resolving the article heading template tags, when you brought the declined speedy to AfD.
- Let's put aside your --rule of thumb about many references-- aside for a moment and just concentrate on notability, which appears to be comprised of "deep coverage", "multiple independent sources" and "significant coverage" of the topic (more than trivial but need not be the main topic).
- The depth of coverage of the subject by the source must be considered. If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple[1] independent sources should be cited to establish notability. (...) Deep coverage provides an organization with a level of attention that extends well beyond routine announcements and makes it possible to write more than a very brief, incomplete stub about an organization.
WP:CORPDEPTH
- I have an 11 minute and 15 second
Official YouTube channel interview with
Jason Calacanis of This Week in Startups a Google PageRank #5 web magazine. The interview/pitch is exclusively on the ContentBridge topic and just prior to the LLC founding. This article/video affords plenty of information to write an article that is more than a brief incomplete stub -- and is from a reliable source. Now, let's examine the
WP:GNG.
- "Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material
- The topic at hand is "ContentBridge, Media Supply Chain Solutions" (not simply ContentBridge), which is taken directly from the corporate logo. In the Variety and Billboard Magazine articles, the CEO of ContentBridge is invited to speak about media supply chain solutions. In the 851 word
Billboard Magazine article, 154 words (18% of the article) are attributable to Jason Peterson, the CEO of ContentBridge, speaking to media supply chain solutions. Our "topic" is ranking right up there with
Jason Mraz and
JJ Lin who are in the title of the article, but barely mentioned in the article. Additionally, none of the other 58 keynote speakers are quoted in the article. Likewise, in the 321 word
Variety Magazine article, the ContentBridge CEO is the only one of many to be quoted with 137 words (43%) attributable to CEO Peterson/ContentBridge. The significance is that ContentBridge was contacted and known for subject expertise, the fact that a person with his own notability agreed to make the on the record statements is irrelevant, because if lower-level personnel had made these statements all notability go to ContentBridge. So, in wrapping up this portion, the deep coverage is gleaned from the This Week in Startups the significant coverage, the multiple independent sources are the internationally known This Week in Startups, Billboard Magazine, Variety Magazine and several lesser known trade-specific magazines. Notability has been established here, three ways from Sunday.
- If your friends with administrative privileges are going to search for AfD candidate articles, they should refrain from voting in AfD discussions and concentrate on uncontested speedy deletions. It also reeks of impropriety and retribution when an administrator searches an editor's contributions, looking for something to punish them for their vote. This used to be called stalking, but has recently been renamed to Wikihounding because stalking has real life consequences. (Incidentally, creating those circular redirect references you say are perfectly within the guidelines would make outstanding targets for DDoS attacks.)
- It is off-putting, that in every conversation I've found, with you discussing ContentBridge, I can't recall one where you have not mentioned that I have a paid declaration. The fact that an editor is paid is irrelevant in a notability discussion, mentioning it when you invite someone to participate in AfD tends to show a presumption of malice to induce motivation. Everybody has some sort of COI, otherwise nothing would get written and every reader (with an ounce of sense) is aware of this.
- One thing I've learned about writing is that it is far more likely for an editor to have a COI about an artist that they like, a candidate or a cause that they support than it is with writing for paying client, clients have no idea what is in the MoS and the guidelines. The problem with paid writing, is bending over backwards to avoid the preconceived notion of advertising as the motive and article flow. I can honestly tell you, the internet (search engine) facing side of the Wikipedia is inconsequential for most corporations. Building their history and trustworthiness (open editing) is the reason they are here.
009o9 (
talk)
08:40, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
reply
Darn! You found me out. Yep, I'm a notorious wikihounder/stalker. And ever since I passed my RFA, I have been suffering from delusions of grandeur. Don't worry too much about the latter, though, because once the new meds that my shrink prescribed kick in, that should be better. As for the hounding, if you have problems with any edits I made, please report them at
WP:ANI, so that they finally will indefinitely block me and WP will be a better places for you and your skeleton pal. But leave all those walls of text out of this AfD, because that discussion doesn't belong here. --
Randykitty (
talk)
09:15, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
reply
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