- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Essentially, nobody except the nominator and one minor comment suggested the article should be deleted. The sources supplied during the debate strengthen the argument towards keeping. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:10, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
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- Carla Denyer ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Contested PROD. Fails WP:NPOL. A lot of the citations are local media describing local politics, or just passing mentions. Awards are not notable. Fails WP:GNG. There's discussion on the Talk page. Bondegezou ( talk) 20:21, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 20:35, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Ceethekreator ( talk) 22:05, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
- Comment Pinging commenters on the talk page: Alarichall and Deryck Chan. I'd say this Guardian article amounts to one good source about the article subject. The other two articles listed on the talk page are sort of borderline passing mentions. In addition, there is this BBC article which is about an issue the article subject raised around postal voting forms. Notability looks doubtful at the moment unless more/better sources can be found. — Tom Morris ( talk) 13:29, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
- Probably best, as you imply, to bring the discussion here rather than continuing on the talk page. Thanks for finding that extra story too. For context, should anyone be reading, the articles that Tom Morris refers to are national coverage that I suggested might meet the general notability guideline that Denyer "has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject":
- Matthew Taylor, ' Bristol plans to become carbon neutral by 2030', The Guardian (14 November 2018). [Tom agrees this qualifies.]
- Fiona Harvey, ' Climate takes centre stage as Green party launches campaign', The Guardian (6 November 2019). [This article has fourteen paragraphs of which nine are about Denyer and/or her campaign in Bristol West.]
- Greg Dawson, ' Climate change: "I want to look my daughter in the eye"', BBC Politics Live (15 March 2019). [Three-minute piece of which one is about and/or interview with Denyer.]
- But (developing a point I made on the talk page) I think these pieces in local news also meet the GNG criteria:
- ' Why the Greens think they can win Bristol West in the 2019 election', Bristol Post (7 November 2019) [All about Denyer and her campaign. This publication is a long-established print newspaper with a print circulation of 17,000.]
- Ellie Pipe, ' Bristol's Response to the Climate Emergency', Bristol24/7 (12 November 2019) [19 paragraphs out of 41 about or quoting Denyer. This publication has a print circulation of 20,000 and an online monthly readership of 200,000. published since the aFD discussion began.]
- These sit alongside a broad range of briefer mentions in local and national media (cited in the article). So that's my case for Denyer's notability! (For now :-) )
Alarichall (
talk)
00:17, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
- The Matthew Taylor piece in The Guardian is not about Denyer: it's about Bristol's plans to go carbon neutral. If Wikipedia wants to talk about city plans to go carbon neutral, it can do that in appropriate articles if it wants to. The whole thing looks
WP:NOTNEWS to me. The Fiona Harvey piece in The Guardian is not about Denyer: there is one sentence that is actually about Denyer, the rest is election coverage and can be covered on election articles. The Greg Dawson BBC News thing is not about Denyer: it's about climate emergencies and Extinction Rebellion: again, that can be covered in articles on those things. The Bristol Post article is routine election coverage that can be found for large number of candidates who fail
WP:NPOL: we don't create articles for candidates. Yes, you can thread together lots of citations in which Denyer is quoted, but none of these are significant coverage of Denyer. Bristol declaring a climate emergency is somewhat noteworthy, but
WP:BLP1E. Routine election coverage is covered by election articles.
Bondegezou (
talk)
13:45, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for these considered views. I look forward to picking this up properly, but just to note that
WP:BLP1E is a red herring here: it applies 'If reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event' (clearly not the case); 'if that person otherwise remains, and is likely to remain, a
low-profile individual' (Denyer is clearly a public figure); 'if the event is not significant or the individual's role was either not substantial or not well documented' (if you're thinking here of Bristol's climate emergency declaration, that event is significant and Denyer's role both substantial and well documented).
Alarichall (
talk)
22:41, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
- My error: I meant WP:1E. I quote, "The general rule is to cover the event, not the person." Bondegezou ( talk) 22:54, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for these considered views. I look forward to picking this up properly, but just to note that
WP:BLP1E is a red herring here: it applies 'If reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event' (clearly not the case); 'if that person otherwise remains, and is likely to remain, a
low-profile individual' (Denyer is clearly a public figure); 'if the event is not significant or the individual's role was either not substantial or not well documented' (if you're thinking here of Bristol's climate emergency declaration, that event is significant and Denyer's role both substantial and well documented).
Alarichall (
talk)
22:41, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
- The Matthew Taylor piece in The Guardian is not about Denyer: it's about Bristol's plans to go carbon neutral. If Wikipedia wants to talk about city plans to go carbon neutral, it can do that in appropriate articles if it wants to. The whole thing looks
WP:NOTNEWS to me. The Fiona Harvey piece in The Guardian is not about Denyer: there is one sentence that is actually about Denyer, the rest is election coverage and can be covered on election articles. The Greg Dawson BBC News thing is not about Denyer: it's about climate emergencies and Extinction Rebellion: again, that can be covered in articles on those things. The Bristol Post article is routine election coverage that can be found for large number of candidates who fail
WP:NPOL: we don't create articles for candidates. Yes, you can thread together lots of citations in which Denyer is quoted, but none of these are significant coverage of Denyer. Bristol declaring a climate emergency is somewhat noteworthy, but
WP:BLP1E. Routine election coverage is covered by election articles.
Bondegezou (
talk)
13:45, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
- These sit alongside a broad range of briefer mentions in local and national media (cited in the article). So that's my case for Denyer's notability! (For now :-) )
Alarichall (
talk)
00:17, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
- Delete A lack of significant coverage of Denyer. Local sources are worth considering, but there isn't significant coverage of Denyer as a person or as a politician. WP:TOOSOON. Ralbegen ( talk) 15:35, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
- Keep. As I have written in the article talk page, I think the cited sources add up to establish sufficient notability. Deryck C. 13:09, 15 November 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 00:25, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
- Keep This individual meets GNG, even if as a local politician she would not normally meet NPOL. There are extensive sources, including significant national coverage, including the Gurpardian articles linked above. The movement that began with her efforts puts her beyond 1E as well. Montanabw (talk) 18:52, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
- Neither Guardian piece is about Denyer: she is mentioned in both, but I fail to see how they meet WP:GNG requirements of being significant coverage of Denyer. Bondegezou ( talk) 08:06, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
- Comment: WP:POLOUTCOMES. Another discussion led me to have a look at the WP:POLOUTCOMES section linked from WP:NPOL. This paragraph strikes me as pertinent to Denyer's article: 'Local politicians whose office would not ordinarily be considered notable may still clear the bar if they have received national or international press coverage, beyond the scope of what would ordinarily be expected for their role. For example, a small-town mayor or city councillor who was the first LGBT person ever elected to office in their country, or who emerged as a significant national spokesperson for a political issue, may be considered notable on that basis. Note that this distinction may not simply be asserted or sourced to exclusively local media; to claim notability on this basis, the coverage must be shown to have nationalized or internationalized well beyond their own local area alone.' Denyer seems a neat match for this in relation to the climate emergency declaration. Alarichall ( talk) 23:27, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.