- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to List of Babylon 5 characters. The most detailed source analysis indicates that the sources appear to be inadequate to satisfy notability criteria and has been uncontested, but apparently most participants see them as adequate for a section in a list. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 08:58, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
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I prodded this with "No evidence of notability. Consider soft redirecting to List of Babylon 5 characters (nothing to merge as this is entirely unreferenced...)." Prod has been removed with no rationale by User:Andrew Davidson, so now we have to spend our time here... Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:06, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:06, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:06, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
- Delete as unreferenced cruft. Andrew D. has not stated any rationale for removing PROD, making it WP:POINTy and meritless behavior. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 09:10, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
- WP:POINT is when you take an action on a basis that you don't actually believe. Examples would include:
- Asserting that a deletion is uncontroversial when you are well aware of opposition
- Nominating a topic for deletion when you actually want it redirected
- Asserting that there is no evidence when there might well be but you haven't taken time to look
- Complaining about the waste of our time, when you're the one who keeps initiating the pointy actions
- Andrew D. ( talk) 13:09, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
- Weak Keep The character is a regular in Season Five of the show, appearing in 8 episodes, and was the major character of that season's arcs. I fully agree that the article as written is very cruft-y, but there are undoubtedly thousands of articles for characters of less prominence in other TV shows, movies, books and games. From what I remember at the time, there was a lot of backlash by fandom against the character, so I would expect that there should be a number of independent sources, but possibly in print, not online. Bluap ( talk) 11:58, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
- Keep This is a major character in a major series and so has naturally been noticed and covered in detail in sources such as
The Essential Science Fiction Television Reader,
From Starship Captains to Galactic Rebels: Leaders in Science Fiction Television and
A Dream Given Form: The Unofficial Guide to the Universe of Babylon 5. The topic therefore passes
WP:GNG and the following policies apply:
WP:ATD;
WP:BEFORE;
WP:BITE;
WP:CENSOR;
WP:IMPERFECT;
WP:NOTPAPER;
WP:PRESERVE; &c.
Andrew D. (
talk)
13:09, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
- No indication that you reviewed those sources. WP:GOOGLEHITS (in books) is not a valid keep arguments. My review of them suggests there is nothing there but an abbreviated in-universe biography and/or mentions of episode appearances.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:54, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
- Merge Has no notability outside of the context of the show. Andrew's books, as usual, establish Babylon 5's notability but do not establish the need for a separate article about a character appearing in a single season. Reywas92 Talk 18:46, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
- Redirect - I wouldn't say the above sources are useless, but I don't think they're strong enough to hold an entire article. TTN ( talk) 22:36, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
- Merge into List of Babylon 5 characters because WP:SUMMARY was not observed in that list, and it is extremely bare-bones for non-minor characters. @ Piotrus: I recommend to do the same with all the other prod-ed B5 characters. As a group, these characters generally do have some notability and provide a starting point for a legitimate LoC. – sgeureka t• c 11:33, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
- Merge to List of Babylon 5 characters. There are some sources that discuss the character, but most are brief and are more on the side of plot summary than any meaningful discussion or analysis. Not enough to support an independent article, but enough to add some sourced information on the character to the character list. Rorshacma ( talk) 00:18, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
- Merge per others and this really has only an in-universe perspective. @ Zxcvbnm: - Per WP:DEPROD, the deprodder is strongly encouraged to provide a reason but they are not mandated to do so. -- Whpq ( talk) 20:24, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
- True, even though I can't fathom why it isn't required. Andrew D alone has succeeded in breaking the PROD system completely with his removals while continuing to ignore notability policy. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 23:18, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
- @ Zxcvbnm: and @ Whpq: He is hardly the only one, there are similar notorious deprodders out there. Which is why the PROD system hardly works, and often many of us ignore it and go straight to here, because we are fed up with spurious prod declines for cases that we know will get deleted after AfD, wasting time of other editors because some inclusionist wanted to make WP:POINT, again... -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:31, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.