- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. No consensus for a specific outcome has arisen in this discussion. North America 1000 23:51, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
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- Bryant B. Newcomb ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Mayor and county politician. Fails WP:POLITICIAN. Article is also poorly sourced, the only rs is an obituary. Rusf10 ( talk) 17:18, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Daask ( talk) 19:24, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
- Delete the positions that Newcomb held do not lead to default notability, and nothing comes close to actually showing that Newcomb was notable. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 04:49, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. MT Train Talk 09:03, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. MT Train Talk 09:03, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
- Keep - Subject seems to be encyclopedic, as he has received in depth coverage in multiple Monmouth County sources, such as: History of Monmouth County, New Jersey 1664 - 1920, 1922, Lewis Historical Publishing Co., Inc. p56-57. and Jersey Pioneer, Asbury Park Press (Asbury Park, New Jersey) 31 Oct 1971, page 39. Article mostly passes WP:CCPOL, and I'll try to clean it up a bit more. Smmurphy( Talk) 17:24, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
- Delete the sources the article bases itself on are one historical article from the 1970's and one book which is functionally a historical encyclopedia of who's who in Monmouth County, and obituaries. Even though a locality may have local records of who married who where and who ran what business when, this information does not show notability in my mind, as the local encyclopedia may not have been as discerning as we are. (Obviously it can still be used to flesh out an article.) Other sources are just trivial mentions. There's not enough there to get a local politician over WP:GNG. SportingFlyer talk 20:21, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
- Keep I am seeing enough reliable sources to meet WP:GNG including a NYT obit. And because the next person to write is going to say that the NYT is a local paper covering routine events ... then show me the obits for every other mayor in New Jersey over the past 100 years in the NYT. They are very selective. -- RAN ( talk) 16:53, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
- Oh yes, a New York Time obituary, the gold standard of notability according to RAN. Why don't you show us the policy that states a NYT obituary trumps all other policies? Notable people usually do not things before they die.
I can't read the paywalled NYT article, but being that he was stuck by a taxicab, I willing to guess that he died in New York City. (and guess what local newspaper covers things that happen in New York City) The wikipedia article claims he died in Long Branch, but doubt he was hit by a taxi there.-- Rusf10 ( talk) 17:12, 11 June 2018 (UTC)- Here is a non-paywalled obit - B. B. Newcomb Killed by Taxi At Long Branch, Asbury Park Press (Asbury Park, New Jersey) 2 Feb 1945, page
1 and
3. I'm not sure why you wouldn't think a taxi would be operated in the Long Branch/Asbury Park in the 1940s, but details on the cabby and passengers are in that article.
Smmurphy(
Talk)
17:28, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
- To be fair, we've been in situations before where an otherwise non-notable politician has been killed or passed in office in unusual circumstances and have used obituaries to move "over the WP:GNG" line, which I think is wrong. The NYT obituary does not appear to be substantial. Just because this politician has been written about in local sources does not guarantee him notability on Wikipedia: the only articles on him are a history book, a business blurb on his newspaper retirement, and obituaries, which isn't enough for
WP:NPOL.
SportingFlyer
talk
17:50, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
- NY times archive pages give an image of the actual page with the article itself highlighted but too blurry and small to read. The paper is an 8 column, so each column is about 1.2 inches wide. With that as a guide, the 1937 announcement of Newcomb's retirement looks to be about an inch long
[1] and his obituary looks to be a little over 5 inches long.
[2] I usually consider 4 inches of material on an individual to be a substantial article, but others have other rules of thumb.
Smmurphy(
Talk)
18:15, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
- Also, another clarification. Newcomb did not die in office and death by motor vehicle accident was not (and is not) unusual - motor vehicle accidents are generally right at the edge of the top 10 most likely causes of death in the US (and worldwide, I believe) and have been since the 1930s (See interactive graphic
here).
Smmurphy(
Talk)
18:37, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for finding that article. I struck the part of my comment about him not dying in Long Branch, although I still stand by my earlier statement that there is not enough here to establish notability.-- Rusf10 ( talk) 19:04, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
- I was not suggesting he died in office, and while you are correct about accidents being a top ten cause of death, he was struck by a taxicab, which is indeed an unusual situation. The entire first page of the Asbury Park article discusses the accident, his achievements relegated to page three. Also I think we're claiming he's notable as a county freeholder? His term as mayor was on a commission form of government, where mayors have little power. SportingFlyer talk 19:43, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
- Also, another clarification. Newcomb did not die in office and death by motor vehicle accident was not (and is not) unusual - motor vehicle accidents are generally right at the edge of the top 10 most likely causes of death in the US (and worldwide, I believe) and have been since the 1930s (See interactive graphic
here).
Smmurphy(
Talk)
18:37, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
- NY times archive pages give an image of the actual page with the article itself highlighted but too blurry and small to read. The paper is an 8 column, so each column is about 1.2 inches wide. With that as a guide, the 1937 announcement of Newcomb's retirement looks to be about an inch long
[1] and his obituary looks to be a little over 5 inches long.
[2] I usually consider 4 inches of material on an individual to be a substantial article, but others have other rules of thumb.
Smmurphy(
Talk)
18:15, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
- To be fair, we've been in situations before where an otherwise non-notable politician has been killed or passed in office in unusual circumstances and have used obituaries to move "over the WP:GNG" line, which I think is wrong. The NYT obituary does not appear to be substantial. Just because this politician has been written about in local sources does not guarantee him notability on Wikipedia: the only articles on him are a history book, a business blurb on his newspaper retirement, and obituaries, which isn't enough for
WP:NPOL.
SportingFlyer
talk
17:50, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
- Here is a non-paywalled obit - B. B. Newcomb Killed by Taxi At Long Branch, Asbury Park Press (Asbury Park, New Jersey) 2 Feb 1945, page
1 and
3. I'm not sure why you wouldn't think a taxi would be operated in the Long Branch/Asbury Park in the 1940s, but details on the cabby and passengers are in that article.
Smmurphy(
Talk)
17:28, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
- Oh yes, a New York Time obituary, the gold standard of notability according to RAN. Why don't you show us the policy that states a NYT obituary trumps all other policies? Notable people usually do not things before they die.
- Keep meet WP:GNG. ( Ends 20 Years With Newspaper, New York Times (New York, New York) 31 Aug 1937, p 25</ref> clearly establishes that his career of interest, also before he died ten years later. The Nw York. Djflem ( talk) 17:57, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.