- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. ✗ plicit 23:50, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
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- Bremer SV 0–12 FC Bayern Munich (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
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fails WP:NEVENT/ WP:GNG. Though an impressive scoreline, the game has not received anything more than routine coverage and is of no long-term significance. Microwave Anarchist ( talk) 22:59, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Microwave Anarchist ( talk) 22:59, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. Microwave Anarchist ( talk) 22:59, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- What do you consider "routine coverage"? A simple google search brings backs hundreds of articles, many from reputable sources across both German and English language publications Bild, Kicker, Sport1, the BBC, Sky Sports, ESPN, and more. The match broke numerous records too, which are highlighted in the article. It has more notability and long-term significance than many articles of this nature that have not been scrutinized, i.e.
Manchester United F.C. 8–2 Arsenal F.C. and
Nottingham Forest F.C. 1–8 Manchester United F.C..
Rupert1904 (
talk)
07:03, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
Rupert1904: Your point about the Man Utd articles is immaterial as '
other stuff exists' is a very weak argument; I am making no comment as per whether the Man Utd matches are notable. All of the references provided (bar the two for the postponement) are match reports/
routine sports articles that do not demonstrate any real notability, and I can't find any sources that do.
Microwave Anarchist (
talk)
08:20, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Manchester United F.C. 8–2 Arsenal F.C. and Nottingham Forest F.C. 1–8 Manchester United F.C. were matches between two Premier League teams, not a top division team and some nobodies. And the Forest one did break a record (though I'm still not sure it's notable enough anyway). Joseph 2302 ( talk) 09:09, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
Rupert1904: Your point about the Man Utd articles is immaterial as '
other stuff exists' is a very weak argument; I am making no comment as per whether the Man Utd matches are notable. All of the references provided (bar the two for the postponement) are match reports/
routine sports articles that do not demonstrate any real notability, and I can't find any sources that do.
Microwave Anarchist (
talk)
08:20, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- What do you consider "routine coverage"? A simple google search brings backs hundreds of articles, many from reputable sources across both German and English language publications Bild, Kicker, Sport1, the BBC, Sky Sports, ESPN, and more. The match broke numerous records too, which are highlighted in the article. It has more notability and long-term significance than many articles of this nature that have not been scrutinized, i.e.
Manchester United F.C. 8–2 Arsenal F.C. and
Nottingham Forest F.C. 1–8 Manchester United F.C..
Rupert1904 (
talk)
07:03, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 07:08, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 07:09, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Question What genuine records did it break? All the article says is that it was Bayern's biggest win since 1997 (i.e. not of all time, just the last 24 years) and that it was their biggest win since 1965 as long as you disregard another match. Neither of those is really a "record"...... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 07:20, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- It's a huge scoreline and is their second largest margin of victory in the club's professional history. I would say that's noteworthy and I would also say that the other win in 1997, a 16–1 defeat of DJK Waldberg should also have it's own article as well. Again I ask, why are these matches that I mentioned above any more notable? Is it just because they happened in an English speaking country? This match actually had records attached to it. If it's the second highest victory of all time, that's still a record.
Rupert1904 (
talk)
07:55, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- The second biggest victory of all time isn't a record, by definition. In the case of the two matches you linked above,
Nottingham Forest F.C. 1–8 Manchester United F.C. set a record for the biggest ever away win in the Premier League, which is a genuine record. Not sure about the other one. --
ChrisTheDude (
talk)
08:13, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- It's not the biggest ever away win though.
Rupert1904 (
talk)
09:46, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- It was at the time though. It set a new record. --
ChrisTheDude (
talk)
09:48, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- So should the first away win in the Premier League also have it's own article since it set a record at the time? Rupert1904 ( talk) 09:50, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- It was at the time though. It set a new record. --
ChrisTheDude (
talk)
09:48, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- It's not the biggest ever away win though.
Rupert1904 (
talk)
09:46, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Also, was this the second biggest victory of all time in German professional football, or just Bayern's second biggest? As far as I can see we don't have stand-alone articles on other individual clubs' biggest ever wins (unless it set some other sort of record), let alone their second biggest....... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 08:15, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- The second biggest victory of all time isn't a record, by definition. In the case of the two matches you linked above,
Nottingham Forest F.C. 1–8 Manchester United F.C. set a record for the biggest ever away win in the Premier League, which is a genuine record. Not sure about the other one. --
ChrisTheDude (
talk)
08:13, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- It's a huge scoreline and is their second largest margin of victory in the club's professional history. I would say that's noteworthy and I would also say that the other win in 1997, a 16–1 defeat of DJK Waldberg should also have it's own article as well. Again I ask, why are these matches that I mentioned above any more notable? Is it just because they happened in an English speaking country? This match actually had records attached to it. If it's the second highest victory of all time, that's still a record.
Rupert1904 (
talk)
07:55, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Delete - Fails WP:NEVENT and WP:GNG, although wins of 10+ goals are rare that doesn't make them inherently notable. It might be better to include some of the information here at the parent article 2021–22 DFB-Pokal. There may be an argument to recreate the article in future should it become significant in the long term but right now is WP:TOOSOON so I would not be opposed to the article being moved to draft space similar to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Real Madrid 1–2 FC Sheriff Tiraspol. Stevie fae Scotland ( talk) 08:18, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Delete way WP:TOOSOON to be able to assert that this has sustained coverage, highly doubt it will. So doesn't pass WP:GNG. Despite all the current articles about it, I doubt people will remember it in a few weeks time. And it didn't actually break any records. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 09:07, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- It's fine if a majority of editors vote that this article doesn't meet the notability criteria but I would just ask that the same scrutiny be brought to the two articles I mentioned above and others. It seems every time Manchester United scores a handful of goals, there is clamor to create an article about it. The Nottingham Forest game is the second biggest away win of all time in the Premier League. If Bayern's second biggest win in their professional history (and the club's biggest away win of all time) is not a record then that's certainly not a record either. The ManU-Arsenal game just had a lot of goals. This match had more goals. So again it's fine if this doesn't pass notability, although I don't agree, but I would just ask that we be more discerning on match articles associated with UK clubs.
Rupert1904 (
talk)
09:44, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- The Forest-Man U game was the biggest away win at the time i.e. it actually set a new record. And it was a record for an entire league, not just one club --
ChrisTheDude (
talk)
09:48, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- As I said above, that's no more notable than the first ever away win in Premier league history by Norwich City over Arsenal in 1992. That too set a record at the time.
Rupert1904 (
talk)
09:54, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- That other articles exist that do not meet
WP:GNG is not a valid reason to keep an article.--
dashiellx (
talk)
11:50, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- I'm not saying to keep it because other articles exist. I am saying that if every editor agrees that this doesn't reach notability standards and thinks we should delete it, then we should. But we should also delete these other articles that I have referenced. I want the same level of scrutiny to be added to every article.
Rupert1904 (
talk)
12:11, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Then nominate those articles for deletion as well. It's not on this nominator to check for other articles that fail
WP:GNG. This discussion is about this article and this article only. --
dashiellx (
talk)
12:18, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Fine. I'll nominate both articles. And I'm not saying it's on any one nominator to do it. I just want the whole community to do a better job of setting a standard for scrutinizing articles that don't meet a notability threshold. Rupert1904 ( talk) 13:09, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Then nominate those articles for deletion as well. It's not on this nominator to check for other articles that fail
WP:GNG. This discussion is about this article and this article only. --
dashiellx (
talk)
12:18, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- I'm not saying to keep it because other articles exist. I am saying that if every editor agrees that this doesn't reach notability standards and thinks we should delete it, then we should. But we should also delete these other articles that I have referenced. I want the same level of scrutiny to be added to every article.
Rupert1904 (
talk)
12:11, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- That other articles exist that do not meet
WP:GNG is not a valid reason to keep an article.--
dashiellx (
talk)
11:50, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- As I said above, that's no more notable than the first ever away win in Premier league history by Norwich City over Arsenal in 1992. That too set a record at the time.
Rupert1904 (
talk)
09:54, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- The Forest-Man U game was the biggest away win at the time i.e. it actually set a new record. And it was a record for an entire league, not just one club --
ChrisTheDude (
talk)
09:48, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- It's fine if a majority of editors vote that this article doesn't meet the notability criteria but I would just ask that the same scrutiny be brought to the two articles I mentioned above and others. It seems every time Manchester United scores a handful of goals, there is clamor to create an article about it. The Nottingham Forest game is the second biggest away win of all time in the Premier League. If Bayern's second biggest win in their professional history (and the club's biggest away win of all time) is not a record then that's certainly not a record either. The ManU-Arsenal game just had a lot of goals. This match had more goals. So again it's fine if this doesn't pass notability, although I don't agree, but I would just ask that we be more discerning on match articles associated with UK clubs.
Rupert1904 (
talk)
09:44, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Delete per Microwave Anarchist nom.-- dashiellx ( talk) 11:50, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Delete - a fifth tier side vs a top tier side with a win which is not actually a new record breaking win doesn't merit notability. Iggy ( Swan) ( Contribs) 13:58, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Delete. If Bayern had won 12–0 against another Bundesliga team, it might be worth an article. This was a lower league side being hopelessly outclassed in a match of no real importance and, in the circumstances, the article fails GNG. No Great Shaker ( talk) 15:57, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Delete per above. Dr Salvus 16:57, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Delete per arguments above. Big scoring does not mean notable. Giant Snowman 18:48, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks all for feedback. Let's delete. Rupert1904 ( talk) 19:15, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Delete - this article is an example of WP:RECENTISM. Significant coverage other than normal is not there. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 22:55, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
Delete-per nom.Best Regards.--- ✨Lazy Maniik✨ 05:37, 28 October 2021 (UTC)Sockpuppet of blocked user Lazy Maniik. ✗ plicit 14:04, 1 November 2021 (UTC)- Draft I completely disagree on a straight up delete without time to analyse how much this match has on Bremer, analyse reports like [1], there is cause, effect and aftermath. Govvy ( talk) 12:33, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
- Delete - irrelevant match. a first division team beating a super lower division team is meaningless. it was 12-0 sure, but if they didnt win 12-0 with their first team playing youd question how good bayren actually are lol. Muur ( talk) 20:04, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.