- Comment I've been looking into Love's claim. Obviously this is
original research so I'm not too sure if this helps but figured having done the research I may as well declare it in case there are interested parties.
- Love's father is
Bhim Singh, who is descended from
Zorawar Singh (1786-1841) of the
Dogra dynasty. To get from Love (born 1983) to a Maharaja, you have to go up the family tree 197 years (that's 7 to 10 generations) then sideways across the family tree as Zorawar Singh is not of the royal line. Love is not descended from any of the Maharajas. Not only that but his claim is through an ancestor who died five years before the installment of the first Maharaja,
Gulab Singh, in 1846.
- On top of all this, the last person to officially hold the
title of Maharaja is still alive AND politically active AND has children AND grand-children of his own. Love is not "royal", nor a "claimant". He is a self-obsessed narcissist who propagated a delusional "I am Emperor" claim in order to gain media attention and notoriety during the mayoral election. No notability as has been discussed many times above.
- It's been an enjoyable ride but I must support a snow delete and salt.
N4 (
talk)
17:48, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
reply
- Comment If we are venturing into the domain of
original research lets first point out that based on my research in the context of this case, the claim made by
User:The Emperor of Jammu and Kashmir to be Ankit Love is profoundly dubious. I sincerely doubt a royal of Love's background and education would express himself so primitively here. I believe this could be a ploy added here to accelerate the deletion process without giving the full time and consideration to this debate. Especially judging by the comments that have followed. Next,
N4 I am glad you mentioned the ex crown prince
Karan Singh here, from my research Karan Singh was never coronated as the Maharaja, he was in fact only the Prince Regent and then abdicated to become the President of Jammu and Kashmir in 1952. This is clear in the interview Karan Singh himself gave to
Outlook Magazine saying
"I followed Pandit Nehru and not my father." So him being simply still alive is not sufficient grounds to throw out Love's claim. This in it self is nothing unique either, please remember after
Edward VIII abdicated as King of England, he was still living through the reign of the current
Queen Elizabeth II. Further you bring up that Karan Singh and his children are involved politically still in India, well further research indicates that would be grounds to exclude them from being the Maharaja. In fact Karan Singh was a cabinet minister in the government of India that passed the
26th Constitutional Amendment of 1971 that barred all Indian citizens from holding royal titles that would include his children too. Remember Love is not an Indian citizen, he is a British citizen which means that amendment would not legally apply to him anymore. This also is comparable to the
Act of Settlement 1701 in the United Kingdom where all Catholics were disqualified from inheriting the British throne, same goes with the throne of Jammu and Kashmir all Indian citizens are disqualified from inheriting it. Once again Love does not claim royal heritage through Prime Minister & General Zorawar Singh. While he is related to Zorawar his royal lineage is through an even older Dogra line of Prince Mian Dev of Udhampur, son of Raja (King) Dhruv Dev (1703 - 1725) of Jammu
as reported in this article on
Kashmir Life magazine. Remember Karan Singh's father Maharaja
Hari Singh (1925–1961) himself inherited the title from his uncle
Pratap Singh (1885-1925), and that Maharaja
Gulab Singh (1792–1857) from where Karan Singh's linage originates himself was not a direct Dogra heir and was a General in the army of the Sikh emperor
Ranjit Singh who invaded Jammu in the early 19th century displacing Raja (King) Jit Singh and appointed him as initially as a vassal. It's also worth considering here that Love's father Bhim Singh won elections twice as an MLA in the Udhampur region and then also won a Member of Parliament election for the Indian government from Udhampur, while Love's cousin Harsh Dev won an MLA election from the area and was a cabinet minister in the Jammu and Kashmir government. I agree it is complex, but none the less these facts of history suggest Love's claim is notable for inclusion on wikipedia
WP:ROYALTY. Further, there is no source anywhere of Karan Singh or his children making a claim to the title of Maharaja and neither for Love's father or cousins who are also citizens of India. To add even if there were two claimants it would still merit inclusion on wikipedia as is the case here with other even defunct Royal titles such as that of the King of Italy claimed by both
Prince Amedeo and
Vittorio Emanuele. I have done a lot of painstaking research and reading of complex histories, laws and conflicts to look beyond the surface of this situation and do sincerely hope my work will be considered appropriately in this debate.--
Int Researcher (
talk)
23:15, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
reply
- Reply to Int Researcher: If I might inquire, why do you speak so highly of Ankit Love? You say his background prevents him from contributing to Wikipedia because it's "primitive". I would imagine many influential and well-regarded individuals are on Wikipedia. Not only that, but during the London Mayoral Elections, I recall him going onto the reddit.com/r/london subreddit, and using low-cost guerilla marketing to desperately hunt for votes. Not only that, but he also received the least amount of votes of any candidates. You would imagine someone from a wealthy, or at least prestigious background, would have significantly more media coverage, background and support. I don't think that Ankit Love is anywhere near as illustrious as you describe, and if he really was, he would be notable enough for a Wikipedia page (especially without a shill account, assuming that is the case, but you assert not so I won't further that) already that we wouldn't be having this discussion. You say he has incredible education: he doesn't. Harvard Doctorates and Rhodes Scholars edit on Wikipedia. Ankit Love has a partially-completed Bachelors degree from a third tier university according to his statements, that he dropped out of. And presumably numerous dubious attendances at educational institutions. I don't think his education is beyond any of us, in fact, I'm going to make the presumption that at least one other editor on this page has a bachelors degree. I'm going to firmly ask you a question, and this will infer whether or not you have a
WP:COI and the accusatory statements you made before against other editors were mere hipocrisy: Why is it, that an anonymous single-purpose account claiming to be an impartial and neutral researcher of unknown credentials, has done significant genealogical, legal and historical research on an individual (perhaps even intruding on the privacy of Ankit Love in the sense of original research) that is largely unknown and by the general consensus of this Article for Deletion discussion, completely unnotable. I would hope to apply Occam's Razor to this matter. He has no significant backing from the Kashmir community, from what I have seen, and the statements about having a valid claim to be an emperor are largely from unreliable secondary sources. Given how well-informed you are, the more you write, I have become more and more skeptical about your intentions. If you have no connection to Ankit Love, how is it that you are so educated, specialized and determined in the matter of Ankit Love's claim to the throne? While this may seem like an accusatory reply, I actually genuinely want to know. The vast majority of editors on this page believe that you are engaged in a conflict of interest (see
WP:COI), and with good reason, but this would clear things up pretty significantly if you can provide valid credentials and motives other than "I was interested and looked it up a bunch", "He's a notable individual and I thought he deserved a page on Wikipedia" or "I believe his claim to the throne is valid". I have yet to see individuals as determined as you are, desperate to keep such a page on Wikipedia when the consensus is to delete. I want to hear what exactly your side of the story is because evidently you have a massive vested interest in seeing this article persist, before I go off and believe in N4's claim that it seems this is nothing more than Ankit practicing his usual narcissism and pathological lying complex that I have seen during the London elections. And before you spout off on political partisanship and previous bias coming onto this thread because you keep doing that, especially with the absurdity of your American intelligence agency claims, keep in mind: I am currently being open about my activeness observing the London elections and London is a place that is very dear to me before I left. As well, I did not vote in the last election and I am currently not eligible to vote. I am not involved in London partisan politics. There is no conflict of interest with me and any other parties, and I am seeking to stand by Wikipedia's content and notability policies as best as I can to my knowledge. If the closing administrator or individual feels that I was biased in my decision-making, I don't have any objections and they're welcome to disregard my belief that this article should be deleted in favour of other opinions. And most of all: please don't respond to these questions with another accusation, or a personal attack, since you seem to have the nasty little habit of accusing everyone that disagrees with you of something heinous to deflect the negative attention, calling outs and accusations against you. This should be seen as a chance to make things right, and to re-establish your reputation since most believe you have a conflict of interest and cannot abide by notability guidelines.
Cyanhat (
talk)
00:16, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
reply
- Reply to
User:Cyanhat: Dear Cyanhat, please allow me to start by apologising for my pervious beliefs that you were harbouring some nationalistic agenda. I can see clearly see that this was not the case now, you are clearly erudite and were acting with the best intentions, and I do respect that. However, if you had seen life from my perspective, there are many things that are not always as they seem and we do live in a world rife with misinformation. Now to address your points: Once again I believe we are starting with a misunderstanding, do allow me to clarify. I did not mean at all wikipedia is "primitive." I do respect wikipedia, that's why I have exhausted so much effort here and appreciate the fact there are many qualified individuals here. What I meant was behaviour from
User:The Emperor of Jammu and Kashmir was primitive when he claims to be Ankit, he should know better than making remarks in that fashion here. Call me old fashioned but this is not what I consider royal protocol. You of-course ask many valid questions about who I may be and my comments on Love's eduction. If we go by the sourced information, may I ask what you know of his school
ACS Cobham?
Are you aware that it costs £44,360 a year for boarding there, this despite it was only founded in 1967? While I am sure you have heard of
Eton college
college that was founded in 1440 and costs £37,062 per annum to attend or
Harrow School
founded in 1243 that costs £36,150 per annum for boarding. So one would certainly hope, for that price they would have taught
User:The Emperor of Jammu and Kashmir some better and more specific use of the English language. Consider now also who this school would attract with these sorts of fees? It's curious how conspiracy theorists speak of the
Illuminati and the
Bilderberg Group, but no one has ever mentioned ACS Cobham the most expensive school in the UK. Once again we are getting into the territory of "personal research" but from my sources a member of the
Al Nayhan family, a son of
Roman Abramovich, a son of
Roberto Cavalli, a son of
Mohamed Al-Fayed and a son of
Bob Dudley have all attended ACS Cobham. Yet I'd hazard a guess no one had even heard of this school before here? The thing is, when you move within certain circles you are privy to information others would never even cogitate, or perhaps find grandiose. I had known something about the Kashmir conflict, the Dogras, Karan Singh and Bhim Singh before the London elections, as I had of many other seemingly trivial conflicts such as the
Balochistan conflict in Pakistan and Iran and the royal family of the Nawab
Khair Bakhsh Marri who had
KGB associations and even his youngest son
Mehran Marri who lives in the UK, but I was completely unaware of this character Ankit Love until these Mayoral elections. Which threw me by surprise with the knowledge I do have, how could I not know of him? Through the sources on Ankit's claim and my own knowledge on this region, I was able to direct my research and conclusions. You see if Ankit Love is genuine and behaves like a gentleman he signifies a lot of hope for the Middle East. Of-course, I had already known the CIA's
Operation Cyclone in Afghanistan but had not before connected it to the
insurgency in Jammu and Kashmir till I researched the time line of the story of Ankit Love, as it connects so many seemingly divergent histories I knew of before. Perhaps it is too good to be true, but if it's a construct then well I'm flabbergasted. Consider
Bin Laden was captured 2011 in
Abbottabad that borders Jammu and Kashmir and the SAS and Delta Force were sent to Kashmir after 9/11 in 2002 as it was suspected by Intelligence agencies that Laden was being harboured there by
Harkat-ul-Mujahideen who were initially trained by the CIA when they were called Harkat-ul-Ansar during Operation Cyclone in the 80s
as reported in this article by the Telegraph newspaper. Though, I will confess if
User:The Emperor of Jammu and Kashmir is Ankit, I am certainly disappointed in this young man's conduct here, I would have accepted better behaviour on a public forum having attend ACS Cobham school. Perhaps, in the way I have been observing the Middle East, he seemed like a fresh hope out of nowhere. It was as if he was the best kept secret. Indeed why did not the mass media report more on him more? Perhaps he is just a wannabe, fabricating all this and our media realised so, or perhaps too there is possibility the owners of the for-profit media wanted to suppress his story. Remember some people profit greatly from conflicts, and peace is not in their business interests. These very people may be the owners of the media or oil companies or even illicit drugs trafficker. Were you aware that
Ahmed Wali Karzai brother of the Afghanistan President was on the CIA payroll of 8 years until 2008 and has
allegations of opium trafficking for the CIA as noted on this wikipedia page here. Maybe I read too much between the lines with Ankit Love trying to legalise drugs as a reaction to these intelligence agency activities in the Middle East. Thus I thought I was doing the world a favour by adding his claims here. I cannot fully reveal who I am here as I have concerns for my safety with all I have written here, but clearly I have more than a novice understanding of intelligence actives and royalty internationally. Do you know of the
Freemasons,
and their involvement in the French revolution? Or that Prince
Philip Mountbatten has
to the freemasons? That his uncle Lord Louis Louis Mountbatten signed the Instrument of Accession that started the war in Kashmir in the first place? Do you know that
Prince Michael of Kent is the head of
a freemason lodge established in Buckingham Palace as reported in the
Daily Mail and they
outsource computer services as revealed in this article on the Telegraph. That is why I default to my suggestion of Intelligence agencies and secret societies here. Also Cyanhat I do not know who you are either, and I don't mean this to cause any offence, as I believe you are genuine now. But you ask for my qualifications while you have not revealed anything on your wikipeida profile whatsoever, it does not even have a user page:
User:Cyanhat, but maybe this is just an oversight. But what I know is in central Asia, things can change fast as they did in Iran when the CIA in the royalist
1953_Iranian_coup_d'état removed a democratically elected government and replaced them with the Shah
Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, and Jammu and Kashmir is even more unstable today, and seeing how the whole affair in the Middle East is governed by intelligence agencies including the Russian
FSB, Pakistani
ISI,
Mossad, Indian
RAW and the Saudi
GIP this could be in or against the interest of any of those groups. This place Jammu and Kashmir now seems more and more curious to me, as even I was not fully aware of how clearly disputed the legislation of this territory were till I heard of Ankit and researched further. I was also unaware that the Dogra dynasty he claims royal lineage by has written recored history dating back to the 1300 BCE, that parallels the Egyptian Pharaohs now that should be fascinating for all. Perhaps it was wishful thinking but it would have been nice to see a young liberal leader ruling a Muslim majority state as a monarch one day as was once already attempted in Iran by the CIA, especially now in the current climate for us here. Now are you aware of how the
CIA used modern art as a weapon in the Cold War despite
President Truman not being aware as
reported in this article on the
Telegraph? Remember
JFK was assassinated after
his speech against secret societies at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel. Are you aware of the
Skull and Bones secret society at
Yale University? And that General
General Akthar Khan head of the Pakistani secret service from 1979-1987 had Yale University links and was a personal friend of
William J. Casey the chief of the CIA during most of Operation Cyclone. General Khan had also once attended the same school
Bishop Cotton School, Shimla as Ankit is reported to have. Or that the KGB chief
Viktor Chebrikov had bribed the political
Gandhi dynasty with billions of dollars in Switzerland to promote Soviet ideological interests during the time of Operation Cyclone according to Harvard fellow
Yevgenia Albats and USSR Resolutions of Communist Party of the Soviet Union as
reported by Outlook magazine in this article? It is believed now that
Sonia Gandhi and her son
Raul Gandhi now have a net worth of up to $19 billion according to
this article in Business Insider. Thus if you were party to the information that I have had privilege to know, which I understand very few have, it would not be an unlikely assumption that intelligence agencies in the 21st century to use an anonymous information resource such as wikipedia to battle out their agendas, now this gives a whole new meaning to the term edit wars. Or another simpler consideration is perhaps Ankit is in fact insane, this could be the case too, as his relation to his father
Bhim Singh and the
Jammu and Kashmir National Panthers Party is clear. Maybe he should simply go back to Jammu and Kashmir and join the political party his mother and father founded in 1982 and see what happens and who gets in touch with him then. I cannot imagine what kind of person would want live in a
ghastly hostel in Hackney as was reported in the
Hackney Gazette, if in this situation, seeing the billions that have been invested in this region by intelligence agencies. Certainly not me, I would most likely have taken the money. Either way I am perplexed and personally would like to have confirmation if
User:The Emperor of Jammu and Kashmir is Ankit Love or not. Maybe it is him, I would be disappointed if it was and comments like that would only compromise his sources of funding in my view. As I would not have imagined from his media profile for him to be so concerned about the google ranking of his personal website, that’s not the important thing here. This is about history for me, a history of a region that was written in secret. This will probably be my last contribution on wikipedia and so I will close with two quotes from the
Joseph Conrad's colonial classic novel the
Heart of Darkness in the words of Marlowe, "All Europe contributed to the making of Kurtz, and by and by I learned that most appropriately the International Society for the Suppression of Savage Customs had entrusted him with the making of a report for its future guidance." (p.49) and that "You can't judge Mr. Kurtz as you would an ordinary man." (p. 56)--
Int Researcher (
talk)
14:13, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
reply
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