The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) Nagol0929 ( talk) 12:40, 19 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Alexis Baro

Alexis Baro (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)

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Previously deleted. No evidence of wp:notability under GNG or the SNG. I looked at all of the references and could find even a small amount of GNG type coverage. The most written about him in any of those is the self-supplied bio in various announcements. One of the references is Wikipedia that that has just his his name is a list. Reviewed during new page patrol. North8000 ( talk) 01:27, 11 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Comment the Jazz Journal review looks alright [1], but couldn't find anything else. Might fall short of meeting MUSICBIO.- KH-1 ( talk) 01:53, 11 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Please do not delete the article until I post my replay later today. I will explain what are the reasons why I think the article should remain on wikipedia and why I think article meets wikipedia guidelines. Thanks! IlistenClassicalMusic ( talk) 06:39, 11 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Canada, and Cuba. Spiderone ^{(Talk to Spider)} 09:08, 11 September 2023 (UTC) reply

@ North8000@ KH-1@ Spiderone

Hello to everyone, in this message i will explain why i think article meets music notability guideline. I am sorry for long text but please read it all.

1."Has won or been nominated for a major music award, such as a Grammy, Juno, Mercury, Choice or Grammis award." You can read on reference that is official CBC.ca website that subject is nominee of Juno 2019 awards. This is most clear meet of wikipedia music notability guidelines.

2."The most written about him in any of those is the self-supplied bio in various announcements": RE: I think we should take in consideration that subject is from Cuba, many information about him cant be obtained since Cuba is closed country, expecialy from the "internet" side. Second, how is media supposed to write biography about someone from closed Cuba, if biography isnt supplied from subject side on one way or another, written or spoken? You will probably agree with me that the media will not go to Cuba to "investigate" about jazz musician and get his birth certificate risking their own freedom, jazz is not a 'commercial' type of music listened to by billions of people nor is the subject politically dissident/politically persecuted etc. so articles about him will sell millions of copies.

3. "One of the references is Wikipedia that that has just his his name is a list." That reference is leading to Wikipedia article about world famous Jazz festival and competition in New York. In that article subject is mentioned as one of the performers and subjects performance on that festival is showing that subject is acclaimed, recognized, and famous artist in his(Jazz) field since he performs on world famous festival. Second reference for that performance is YouTube video on YT channel of that same festival, on video you can literaly see subject performing there. Third reference is from media. I know YouTube shouldnt be used as reference, but i put it there with purpose, for reviewer of article to see with his own eyes that media coverage is justified, accurate, and authentic, YT reference can be removed when reviewer see it and confirms it anyhow.

4. Music notability guideline, "Musicians or ensembles may be notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria."

1. "Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself", In article there is many references of media that report about artist, they are not big media publishers but Jazz is not 'comercial' type of music. In whole world there is no big world famous media that make many reports on Jazz musicians and their life. The size, importance and popularity of the media reporting on the subject are proportional to the influence of Jazz in world.
2. "Has received non-trivial coverage in independent reliable sources of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country". In article there is references to his performances in Canada, USA, Montenegro. For Montenegro reference is from the first Montenegrin Jazz radio station and portal.
3. "Is an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles." Subject, while in school, became member of "Buena Vista Social Club" that is internationaly famous ensemble, which have own Wikipedia page, in that club there is numerous notable musicians. I put only one reference for that from "Niagara jazz festival" since i thought it would be enough, it isnt possible that so much famous festivals lie about their musicians, also when you google this there is many media that mention Alexis Baro as one of members of the ensemble.
4. "Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, such as a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album." I think this is also a pass, since subject performed on world famous jazz music festival in New York, i explained this in part 3.
5. Criteria for composers and lyricists, Others: -The recording has won or been nominated for a major music award, such as a Grammy, Juno, Mercury, Choice or Grammis award -The recording was performed in a medium that is notable-Has credit for writing or co-writing either lyrics or music for a notable composition-Has had a work used as the basis for a later composition by a songwriter, composer, or lyricist who meets the above criteriaRE: I think few of this are pass or partialy a pass since subjects composition is on Hilario Duran’s Grammy Award nominated album “From The Heart" and I put references for this also, reference is Library of Congress in Washington.

I am sorry for long answer, but i think i fully explained why subject meets multiple music notability guidelines, fully or partialy in some parts and why article is not for deletion. Thank you for you patience. IlistenClassicalMusic ( talk) 11:18, 11 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Hello @ IlistenClassicalMusic:, thanks for your work. I just try to do my job properly and am not an active advocate for what happens then either way. For this reason I'm not going to argue/respond to the points in your post post except to note a couple things which might be useful info for you. Wikipedia notability is mostly about finding in depth coverage of the topic (the performer) in typically at least 2 sources so that would be a good thing to look for when looking for sources. Adding references which are basically the venue promoting an upcoming appearance which use the artist-supplied bio are a nice addition but don't count towards that. Also, you can't use Wikipedia as a source. However this ends up, thanks for your work and happy editing! Sincerely, North8000 ( talk) 14:13, 11 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Thanks for explanation, I'm sorry if my answer seemed like an arguing, that is surely not what i wanted to do. I hope that you read whole text and editors and participants of this thread will read my whole explanation why i think this article meets notability guidelines, and help me improve article. IlistenClassicalMusic ( talk) 14:26, 11 September 2023 (UTC) reply

@ IlistenClassicalMusic: A common meaning of "arguing" is simply "making arguments" "making points" and is not anything negative. So your post is fine and there is nothing to be sorry about. My advice on all articles is to look for coverage which in-depth on him and try to include 1 or 2 of those as sources. North8000 ( talk) 14:46, 11 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Can you now remove notification on article? Another editor commented bellow that we should keep it. IlistenClassicalMusic ( talk) 07:44, 19 September 2023 (UTC) reply

I can't. The result of this discussion here will determine that. Sincerely, North8000 ( talk) 12:16, 19 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Keep but tag for cleanup. Article is very over-reliant on bad primary sources that are not valid support for notability, and is in dire need of a cleanup job, but he does have a valid notability claim as a Juno Award nominee and better sources are available (163 hits in ProQuest) to repair it with. Bearcat ( talk) 13:54, 11 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America ¹⁰⁰⁰ 08:51, 19 September 2023 (UTC) reply

• Keep per the reliable sources. NYC Guru ( talk) 08:54, 19 September 2023 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.