The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Sandstein 12:33, 1 December 2019 (UTC) reply

About the Civilization of Death

About the Civilization of Death (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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The book fails WP:Notability (books). No reviews, no awards. The purpose of this article seems to be a veild attack at BLP subject Marek Jan Chodakiewicz, and most of the article focus is not even about a book but about a controversial interview/lecture by said subject. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:13, 24 November 2019 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:13, 24 November 2019 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 06:24, 24 November 2019 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 06:24, 24 November 2019 (UTC) reply

• Keep. I wrote this. Wikipedia:Notability (books) tells that if a "book has been the subject[1] of two or more non-trivial[2] published works appearing in sources that are independent of the book itself" it is notable. The book, or they lecture of author of the book on the book with the same title of the book, has been the subject of intense media coverage in Poland:

  Onet.pl: Largest news portal in Poland. August: [1], [2]. September: [3].

  OKO.press: investigative journalism. August: [4], September: [5].

  Gazeta Wyborcza: [6] Poland's best newspaper, saying in September that "Marek Jan Chodakiewicz (born in 1962 in Warsaw) became famous in July last year with a lecture on "Civilization of Death" during meetings "History Stop" at the Center. Janusz Kurtyka.".

  Coverage in gazeta.pl: [7], one of the leading news sources.

  Warsaw Gazeta: [8].

  Fair Observer: [9], scholar Alicja Rybkowska writes about this in October.

  NaTemeat.pl: [10] extensive coverage.

  Intertia.pl: [11] extensive coverage.

  gazetagazeta.pl: [12], largest Canadian-Polish newspaper. Editor in chief writes item on this.

  All of these are in the article. Media for right-wing also been covering this. Najwyższy Czas! ran several pieces: [13], [14], [15], [16]. This book and the lecture on the book, has made a significant impact. AstuteRed ( talk) 06:45, 24 November 2019 (UTC) - sock puppet of banned user reply

• Pretty much all of them are not about a book but about a controversial lecture. Anyway, WP:NOTNEWS. -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:26, 24 November 2019 (UTC) reply

  The lecture was on the book and to promote the sales of the book. The controversy of the book and lecture is same. Busy summer on gay rights in Poland we had, but this event and book stood out. AstuteRed ( talk) 07:47, 24 November 2019 (UTC) - sock puppet of banned user reply

• Nope, interview promoting the book and a book is not the same. An event may be notable, but this book is not. -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:41, 29 November 2019 (UTC) reply

• Keep, scandal quite obviously notable, but the article on the book might not be the best place for the content which as Piotrus notes is mainly about the lecture. Possibly merge to the author's article, or re-purpose as some "Controversy of...." article. Renata ( talk) 15:55, 24 November 2019 (UTC) reply

  The lecture isn't separate from book. This is maybe most clear in media of right-wing that promoted the book and the event. See invitation to lecture on the book, including book sale: [17]. Coverage by Najwyższy Czas! afterwards: [18] "The book "On the civilization of death" by prof. Marek J. Chodakiewicz. It enjoyed extremely high popularity. Chodakiewicz became the # 1 enemy of the left, who attacked his family with fake news. In the absolute best seller this summer, prof. Chodakiewicz reveals the truth about LGBT. The book "On the Civilization of Death", in which he comprehensively describes the history of the sodomice movements and the dangers associated with them, received wide coverage." Then big picture of book coverage, and then "Recently, to the lecture advertising the book by prof. Even Gazeta Wyborcza referred to Chodakiewicz, describing on its website, more shocking progressives, fragments of the meeting.". The outrageous lecture described and promoted book. AstuteRed ( talk) 17:52, 24 November 2019 (UTC) - sock puppet of banned user reply

• Keep. Having now edited both this article and the relevant section at the BLP's, I've come to the conclusion that a separate article from the BLP's is merited. Why? The book in its own right is unimportant; its importance stems solely from the notability of its author. Marek Jan Chodakiewicz is the "chief historian" of the Polish right wing - a smart, thorough intellectual, a professor at a (supposedly) prestigious institution in the US, companion to Donald Trump, defender of the NSZ, an ideologue of a new Poland... and completely f-ing insane. So it's notable, and now we just need a space; the main article is already chock full of criticisms and reviews, so we'd do better to keep this in a separate article and link the two. François Robere ( talk) 01:02, 26 November 2019 (UTC) reply
  • Wait a second. You say "The book in its own right is unimportant; its importance stems solely from the notability of its author." So how on Earth can you justify a keep vote? You say that the book is not important and remind us that WP:NOTINHERITED. You make a great argument for a delete vote, not keep.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:42, 29 November 2019 (UTC) reply
• Keep Sufficiently notable per WP:NBOOK, but material may make better sense as part of author's article per WP:NOPAGE. Alexbrn ( talk) 07:43, 26 November 2019 (UTC) reply
  • @ Alexbrn: Could you explain how this book meets NBOOK? Not a single link above is, AFAIK, a book review. -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:41, 29 November 2019 (UTC) reply
    • WP:NBOOK does not require "book reviews", but coverage in general in line with WP:GNG of which there is sufficient, in my view. Alexbrn ( talk) 11:03, 29 November 2019 (UTC) reply
• Delete. Per nominator. Information in bio of the author. Pastsheld ( talk) 03:15, 30 November 2019 (UTC) reply
  • See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Pastsheld. François Robere ( talk) 07:15, 1 December 2019 (UTC) reply
• Keep'. At best nominator has made the case that the speech by the author of the book passes Wikipedia:Notability (events). The speech had the same title as the book and was on the book, so Wikipedia would have the same article with the same title. Plenty of sources so obviously notable. I dream of Maple ( talk) 06:39, 30 November 2019 (UTC) - sock puppet of banned user reply
  • Congrats on your first AfD vote and 250th total edit. Socking activity is heavy around here... -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 16:04, 30 November 2019 (UTC) reply
• Keep. It’s fairly obvious the majority of the content should be kept: the controversy, and thus much of the details from where that arose. The only real issue as already noted is where does it fit best. And it seems that wherever it lands it will be mostly intact as it presently appears. Gleeanon409 ( talk) 10:08, 1 December 2019 (UTC) - sock puppet of banned user reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.