The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Ad Orientem ( talk) 03:35, 16 February 2019 (UTC) reply

Abner Orick (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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I suspect this fails WP:NPOL, although I'm not very familiar with US politics below national level. If this does end up being deleted then the contents of Category:Dayton City Council members might need to be trawled. Sitush ( talk) 00:35, 1 February 2019 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. North America ¹⁰⁰⁰ 08:52, 1 February 2019 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. North America ¹⁰⁰⁰ 08:52, 1 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• Comment Oh, Ab Orick, lol. I grew up in Dayton, and Abner Orick was a big deal at one time in that town, IIRC got a ton of local coverage because he considered himself a government watchdog and Dayton's political scene was full of cronyism. He may actually be notable. I'll see if I can find some sources. valereee ( talk) 12:37, 1 February 2019 (UTC) reply
• Keep I by no means exhausted the coverage; if anyone disagrees that notability has been proved, I can do more, but IMO I think he probably does qualify. The coverage is almost all local with some coverage in the rest of the state, but that's to be expected. He was a character, but not to the point he attracted national coverage. valereee ( talk) 13:29, 2 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• Thanks for the sourcing but I'm still not getting it. I don't think local coverage counts for much when it comes to GNG and I still don't see how he meets NPOL. If we let this through, there will be scope for tens of thousands of people in India whom we at present routinely reject. - Sitush ( talk) 13:58, 2 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• You don't think the sources meet "A politician who has received "significant press coverage" has been written about, in depth, independently in multiple news feature articles, by journalists." ? I guess I'd say if there are tens of thousands of people in India who are being written about multiple times in-depth over many years in the primary dailies of their midsize cities, they might be notable. valereee ( talk) 14:21, 2 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• I'm just saying how the guidelines have been interpreted in the past. It is also why quite a few articles by Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) have been deleted. I really don't give a crap about US politics but I do dislike systemic bias and the US gets away with murder on that score. I'm not trying to pull an OTHERSTUFFEXISTS line here, btw: local politicians get local coverage, it's not usually thought of as being a big deal. - Sitush ( talk) 14:25, 2 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• Hey, you could mention probably a dozen other Dayton city commissioners and I'd say you're right, they aren't notable. I'd be able to do a search and find the only coverage they got were bare mentions of their wins or how they voted or single quotes in an article about an issue. I'm not arguing that being city commissioner (or the normal coverage that gets you) makes you notable. I'm arguing that in this case, a city commissioner of a midsize city might actually be notable because he got an abnormal amount of coverage. valereee ( talk) 14:38, 2 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• Fair enough. I'm in the UK and can't see many US news sources, even though I see the results listings. Thus, I can't comment on their content, merely on what tends to happen: the "local heroes" type of situation doesn't usually wash at AfD. (Or "local baddy", as it sounds like it may be in this case.) - Sitush ( talk) 14:40, 2 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• I clipped all those articles -- you can't see the clippings? Maybe I did it wrong -- I only recently figured out it was even possible ETA: I don't think he was necessarily a local hero, although certainly the people in his blue-collar white east dayton neighborhoods thought so. And definitely not a baddy, he was well-intentioned. He was just a colorful character lol valereee ( talk) 14:43, 2 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• Sorry, I saw the links were for newspapers.com and I know I can't see them even though I can get results listings. However, I've just tried the first one and it is visible to me - I've not seen the clipping thing before but perhaps that does make a difference. Anyway, let's just see what other people think. Hero/celebrity/baddy/whatever - he's of local interest and local interest doesn't usually make for encyclopaedic interest in a worldwide context. Perhaps it should, and it would suit me just fine, but I'm just telling you how I've seen it play out in the past. - Sitush ( talk) 14:58, 2 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• No worries, since you're not convinced I'll keep working! Like I said, I'd by no means exhausted the sources :) valereee ( talk) 15:13, 2 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• Comment. I haven't gone through all of the sources to establish whether they're enough to make him special or not — and to be honest, I'm not actually going to, so I'm not going to "vote" either way. (Also, Valereee is making a sincere attempt to improve it, so I don't want to prejudge the results of the effort.) But I just wanted to point out the following: when it comes to city councillors, we do indeed normally require that either (a) they serve in an internationally prominent global city on the order of New York City, Chicago, Los Angeles, Toronto or London, or (b) they can be referenced to a volume and depth and range of coverage that makes them a special case over and above most other city councillors. Simply showing that some local coverage exists is not normally enough, because local coverage of city councillors always exists — so we do indeed normally require some evidence of nationalizing coverage before we deem most city councillors to be notable enough, because if all you had to do to get a city councillor over the bar was show a handful of local coverage, then every city councillor could always show that and thus every city councillor would always be notable.
  What I did want to say, though, is that in light of the above discussion I've reviewed the contents of the Dayton city councillors category — some of them do actually get over NPOL on other grounds (e.g. going on to serve in the state legislature), but there are indeed a few who have no credible evidence of notability at all, so I'm already taking on the task of listing those articles for AFD. Bearcat ( talk) 17:04, 4 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• Comment @ Bearcat: Thanks for that. Britishfinance ( talk) 20:01, 15 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• Delete with regret. The sources are all local to the Dayton area with the exception of two. Akron is far removed from Dayton, and while not incredibly in-depth, it might help with GNG. The other is Cincinnati, again not tied to Dayton, but that is the briefest of bare mentions. Therefore it doesn't pass GNG, NPOL, or any other criteria I can think of to keep this well-written article. Dangnabbit. 78.26 _{( spin me / revolutions)} 21:30, 8 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• Delete a locally notable city councilperson. Lots of coverage in the local papers, but fails WP:NPOL, and the coverage is basically what you would see for any councilperson who serves a long time without really doing anything of note. SportingFlyer T· C 20:43, 9 February 2019 (UTC) reply
• Delete with regret. A well written and sourced article on an interesting subject. However, all RS I found were from the Dayton area, which means I cannot see how this can meet WP:GNG (and per Bearcat above). I'm afraid it must be delete. Britishfinance ( talk) 20:03, 15 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• Comment Good enough for me, thanks all! valereee ( talk) 20:49, 15 February 2019 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.