The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Has had one supporting role in Orange Is The New Black but little else. For OITNB, received no recognition or significant coverage. Overall, no significant coverage in secondary independent sources. Article currently has three links to Savage's own twitter and one interview from a blogger. My search prior to this nomination could not find any further sources to prove notability from reliable independent secondary sources. Therefore does not meet
WP:NACTOR.
Cowlibob (
talk)
11:53, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete I watched the whole OITNB series and remember her character well but I have to agree with you. Her role in that very large ensemble cast was minor, as all her other roles have been, and there is no independent significant coverage of her. I found a couple of interviews, including a single paragraph quoting her in an Advocate article profiling four same-sex married couples, but those don't help establish notability.
Largoplazo (
talk)
12:42, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment, I’ve started rewriting the article, as of now I’ve been able to add sources, mostly for her film work as a sound designer and sound editor, which were unmentioned in the article prior to this.Additionally she’s won three ensemble SAG awards, and nominated for a fourth but another editor has disrupted them from being added to the article, there’s an RfC on the talk page to discuss the issue. Gleeanon17:50, 9 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Well, precisely: "she's won" an award recognizing the entirety of the (in this case large) cast, not the individual achievement of any one of them, is not accurate; and, in her case, she was a minor character. She acquires no notability of her own through these, and
notability is not inherited.
Largoplazo (
talk)
20:08, 9 October 2020 (UTC)reply
I did go to check out the sources you've added. But I saw that there are 35 of them, and I'm not going to open them all, not knowing which of them might contribute to notability and which you added merely to verify something in the article's content. Would you mind indicating which of them you believe are qualifying sources under
WP:GNG?
Largoplazo (
talk)
20:11, 9 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Every listed cast member gets the award, even for a large cast, they didn’t carve out exceptions. She won the award as did all the other cast members. Gleeanon20:31, 9 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Unless the nature of the award is that, when awarded to an overall excellent ensemble cast within which one or two performers are merely mediocre, they give it only to the excellent performers and not the mediocre ones, then it is not an award recognizing the individual excellence of any one of them and cannot be construed as an indication of such.
Largoplazo (
talk)
21:43, 9 October 2020 (UTC)reply
That’s an interesting position. Could you clarify which policy or guideline prohibits listing an ensemble award in our articles? Gleeanon21:53, 9 October 2020 (UTC)reply
This isn't the place to discuss what should or shouldn't be in the article, but whether or not to keep the article, where the grounds for removal is a lack of notability. (I realize the two discussions are going on concurrently, but they should be kept separate.) As above, I'm confining myself to the notability question.
Largoplazo (
talk)
21:59, 9 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks for trying to improve the article. I've haven't looked through all the references. The majority of the new refs including the Variety refs seem just to show that she was a part of the sound team/editor for those films rather than proving her notability. She has shared a nomination for a MPSE award but that in itself is not a significant achievement. The SAG cast awards were shared with 37 others so again not significant. I can't see why she currently meets any of the three criteria per
WP:NACTOR.
Cowlibob (
talk)
12:31, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
I’m still finding sources, I think she meets BASIC, and her notability is 75% sound editor/25% actor as of yet. If she died today her obituary would be the tipping point. Gleeanon20:06, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep, meets GNG/BASIC. The spirit of verifiability is of course to ensure everything is true/no fraud, that has undoubtedly been met. Notability is a bit borderline until one looks at the breadth of her work as both an actor and sound editor on close to a hundred films, most of them notable. If it is borderline then I suggest we
WP:IAR unless we agree on what this article’s tipping point is; it’s already an acceptable start, and our readers will come away with a good understanding of who she is. Gleeanon10:47, 11 October 2020 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.