The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Swarthmore football, 1878–1887. Sandstein 21:32, 23 September 2021 (UTC) reply

1879 Swarthmore Garnet Tide football team

1879 Swarthmore Garnet Tide football team (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)

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A "season" which consists of one game against a team from the same state (no, from the same county even), for which no result is known (but which is given as a 0-0 tie in the body and as a tie in the infobox?). No indication of any notability. Fram ( talk) 09:01, 15 September 2021 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. Fram ( talk) 09:01, 15 September 2021 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pennsylvania-related deletion discussions. Fram ( talk) 09:01, 15 September 2021 (UTC) reply

• Merge into Swarthmore football, 1878–1884 Swarthmore football, 1878–1887. Between 1878 and 1885, Swarthmore's football program played between zero and two games per season. See here and here. There were a total of six football games in eight "seasons". While the college football project generally disfavors grouping multiple "seasons" into a single article, the paucity of games during these years warrants an exception. I am open to other suggestions as well, but this strikes me as a sensible approach. Cbl62 ( talk) 13:11, 15 September 2021 (UTC) reply

I went ahead and created Swarthmore football, 1878–1887. After looking at the coverage (which I could not find for the earliest years), this seemed to me to be the best grouping, as it covers the program's history during the early years before the first coach in 1888. The precise scope of the multi-season article can be sorted out later through Talk page discussion. Cbl62 ( talk) 14:57, 15 September 2021 (UTC) reply

• Merge makes sense. Not really a "deletion" issue, but merely an "editing" issue.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 13:14, 15 September 2021 (UTC) reply
• Merge per Cbl. Jweiss11 ( talk) 13:22, 15 September 2021 (UTC) reply
• Keep The 1879 team is of particular historical significance to the Swarthmore team. "First since 1879" gets regular mention in the New York Times, for example here. It's also of significance to the history of the sport in general. 1879 is quite early for playing football. It does not get to Florida until 1901, by contrast. Hence it gets mention here. For that reason, rules are different and e. g. scores are obscure. Forgive me for being a bit confused as to the details. I will try my best to expand here quickly. Also I think myself and the wiki project in general prefers single season articles. The format of the navboxes, season standings, importance ratings, etc seems designed for that purpose. While I am not allergic to there being exceptions, I think the fewer of those cluster-of-season- articles the better. The Widener game also seems to show cfbdatawarehouse is incomplete. Cake ( talk) 14:23, 15 September 2021 (UTC) reply

• Widener and Pennsylvania Military are one in the same. There was a later name change to Widener. Cbl62 ( talk) 15:00, 15 September 2021 (UTC) reply
• I searched and could not find any contemporaneous coverage of the 1879 team. If you can find WP:SIGCOV of the 1879 team, I'd reconsider my "merge" vote. Otherwise, I still think this is best dealt with in the context of a multi-season article covering the early years. Cbl62 ( talk) 15:02, 15 September 2021 (UTC) reply

• Yeah I see that now about Widener. Long time since looked at this. See the single season article for my (purported) improvements. The previous newspaper citation for Widener did not mention Swarthmore, though it's a bit cryptic. However, even Widener's own website, just scrolling from this year to 1879 on their schedule, gives "SNA" I guess "score not applicable" or something, to a Swarthmore contest. This is the best I got for Haverford so far. Cake ( talk) 15:06, 15 September 2021 (UTC) reply
• What I might need to find is "Eleventh Annual Catalogue of Swarthmore College, Swarthmore, Pa;, 1879-80:". There's also somewhere "Swarthmore College in the Nineteenth Century: A Quaker Experience in Education" by Homer D Babbage that can't find anywhere. Cake ( talk) 15:13, 15 September 2021 (UTC) reply

It has a contemporary source now. The Haverfordian was first published in 1879, and the January 1880 issue mentions the Swarthmore game. I quoted it on the weather. Thanksgiving once the usual date for one's final game, so a cold date to play. Cake ( talk) 01:03, 17 September 2021 (UTC) reply

Kudos to Cake for his efforts to improve the article. We are in agreement that the content should not be completely deleted from Wikipedia. The real issue is whether the earliest years of Swarthmore football are best dealt with as a multi-season article or with stand-alone articles about each season. In light of the new sourcing, I am fine with either approach. Cbl62 ( talk) 14:44, 17 September 2021 (UTC) reply

Agreed I have no preference either way. I recommend closing keep and then deal with it on the editing side with merge proposal or whatever.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 14:52, 17 September 2021 (UTC) reply

That new sourcing isn't independent though, it is a school discussing a match that school played, so adds nothing to notability. Fram ( talk) 15:16, 17 September 2021 (UTC) reply

• Merge into Swarthmore football, 1878–1887. 4meter4 ( talk) 20:51, 22 September 2021 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.