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I wouldn't be surprised whatsoever if the CIA were involved at some level on the ground, but I wouldn't go as far as to call these protests the beginning of an astroturf Velvet Revolution. This is not like 1953, when a limited amount of people in Tehran were coerced by the CIA to stage what looked like a protest in order to oust Mohammed Mosaddeq. This event in 2009 is not just some local, ad hoc event; it is taking place in every major city across Iran and involves every age group and social class (even some of the clerical elite are taking verbal potshots at Ahmadinejad and Khamenei). People across Iran, especially the urban middle class, are legitimately pissed at the current regime's policies and the unemployment rate (over 10% of the pop!). The alleged vote rigging was just the brick (I wouldn't go as far as to call it a straw) that broke the camel's back.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 13:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Delivered by SoxBot ( talk) at 03:32, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
For your amusement, here are some lovely images I've uploaded to Wiki recently.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 12:42, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Teen, have a look: Arilang talk 22:21, 24 June 2009 (UTC) (Ctrl-click)"> http://news.boxun.com/news/gb/pubvp/2009/06/200906232321.shtml Arilang talk 22:21, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Teen, this one is about Chimerica http://news.boxun.com/forum/200906/boxun2009a/71934.shtml, this article give a very good explaination why China keep on buying US Treasury Bonds. Arilang talk 08:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Oops! Sorry. I read your message but forgot to respond (been busy lately). Egypt's economy was very tightly controlled by the central government, which set standard prices for commodities (in bartered units, of course, no standard coinage in ancient Egypt). The royal family and regional nobility (the nomarchs) who governed semi-feudal territories also relied much on slave labor and local dependents. However, I wouldn't go as far as to say Egypt was entirely "feudal", since individuals were allowed to own and farm land. Private owners of land who offered grain and agricultural foodstuffs to the government represented the tax base of the government's treasury. This is similar to the Chinese government's reliance on the agricultural tax imposed on the owner-cultivators by Han times.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 05:59, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
All your base are belong to this painting. It simply competes with Along the River During the Qingming Festival.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 10:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I would be glad to copyedit the article now that I have the time. I will start on it later today, once I am done with work. Cheers! Scapler ( talk) 11:35, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Arilang talk 06:42, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Teen, there are many Sino-Japanese war images on the net. Arilang talk 21:06, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Economic history of China is looking very very nice. The last time I looked at it, it was a terrible mess. I want to thank you for the excellent work you have put into it. I think it's ready to go for a GA or a FA review. LK ( talk) 17:16, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
Yes, you could draw some very obvious parallels between the two. Of course, not all jiedushi were non-Han-Chinese, but much of them were. For the various non-Roman allies that Flavius Aetius employed, the article on the Battle of the Catalaunian Plains provides a list (and further down the page it provides some scholarly input on which peoples chose to ally with either side, i.e. Aetius or Attila). Besides a Late Tang Dynasty/ Western Roman Empire comparison, I always found it intriguing that the Han Dynasty split into Three Kingdoms in roughly the same time slot that the Roman Empire split into three states during the Crisis of the Third Century, only to have the Chinese/Roman empire reunited in the 280s AD by Emperor Wu of Jìn/ Diocletian. Lol. Strange, huh? Regards.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 21:29, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Delivered by SoxBot ( talk) at 03:42, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
Not a very fitting term for the present, I agree, but as long as the regime itself (i.e. the Government of the People's Republic of China) retains its old structure and trumpets the ideals of this so-called new form of communism (very bizarre, considering how Deng Xiaoping utterly reversed everything "communist"), then people in the West are still going to take verbal potshots at China by calling it "communist". It's a very easy target. The economic structure has completely changed, but the flag and window dressing are still red. The regime in Beijing obviously doesn't mind being called "communist"; how else would they retain their legitimacy or claim that their regime is a continuation of Mao Zedong's revolution? This label, "Communist China", might be considered a jab at China in the West, but in mainland China it would be a compliment and reaffirm the regime's communist credentials in the eyes of all Chinese cab drivers everywhere who proudly display Mao idols on their dashboard. Lol. Take care.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 19:37, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
As for the Ancient Egyptian literature article, I'm still compiling notes in my sandbox pages. You can have a look if you want ( User:PericlesofAthens/Sandbox Ancient Egyptian literature and User:PericlesofAthens/Sandbox Ancient Egyptian literature2).-- Pericles of Athens Talk 01:39, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
I have finished the copyedit. Sorry for the apparent lack of activity; I had copied the text onto my laptop, and was copyediting it offline. I pasted the copyedit in all at once. Cheers! Scapler ( talk) 20:03, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
LOL THIS FTW. S Korean hams it up as Kim Jong-il - Yahoo!7 News Anyways, happy editing :D -- 李博杰 | — Talk contribs email 01:29, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
I've heard negative reports about British-government run health care from a friend who lived there (poor service, long waits, though medicine was cheap), but often hear nothing but satisfaction from Canadians who have government-run health care. I have no complaints with my private insurer, Aetna; they charge decent rates, so I feel no need to switch to another private insurer or government one for that matter. Then again, I'm a young buck with no preexisting medical conditions. We'll see how nice Aetna treats me when I become 80!
I really have no strong ideological position on this either way. If a business or institution provides good health care, fine, then it clearly deserves to be in place (people will vote with their feet, so to speak). I have the same attitude with Obama's "public option"; if people come to like it, they'll obviously keep it. If it turns out to be a shoddy bureaucratic mess, it will crash and burn (like Wen's "reforms"). If that happens, it will be a death-nail to Obama's political career. It's a risky game for him.
For the left wing of the Democratic party, the "public option" could be a means to an end for them (i.e. eventually establishes their argument for full nationalized healthcare, which is a laugh as of now, considering the power of the health insurance lobby in Congress). The argument coming out of the White House at present is that a "public option" indirectly forces health insurance companies to lower their premiums because the government's prices for health care will supposedly be much lower and competitive. They argue this will occur because their costs wouldn't be dictated by what for-profit insurers need to constantly spend money on: running commercial ad campaigns and lobbying congress. Sure, the lobbying part is out of the question, but I already see government commercials advertising the public option! Hah.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 16:31, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
Well then, it's always good to get a different perspective from a Canadian who knows how it really is up there. Changing gears, take a look at this new picture I've uploaded to commons! It's a great picture; plus, before this, Wiki had absolutely NO pictures of Han-era rammed earth ruins. Now, Wiki does! Heh. Cheers.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 01:59, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Teeninvestor please note that you are in danger of violating WP:3RR on the socialist economics page. In a previous edit summary you falsely claimed that there was a consensus for the attempt to place your chosen content in the lede of the article when no such consensus exists. BernardL ( talk) 23:46, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
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Just in case you get bored and want to look at some new material I've been working on, see these two new articles: Instructions of Kagemni and Loyalist Teaching. They are part of my ongoing project to rewrite the Ancient Egyptian literature article. After that, I might set my sights on a possible "History of the Tang Dynasty" article. Cheers.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 00:59, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Cool. I'll help out more later tonight after work. In the meantime, going back to our discussion about land ownership in ancient Egypt, I recently found this from:
An interesting commentary on private ownership and leasing, from this, a very early period in ancient Egyptian history (i.e. turn of the 2nd millennium BCE)...-- Pericles of Athens Talk 21:57, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Hello, thanks for taking my suggestions into consideration. I see that you have made a large number of edits and improvements, especially regarding citations and footnote style. Props to your hard work (and swift response!). I have updated the GA review accordingly, please take a look.
Sidenote: the reliance on Li and Zheng (2001) is for the more obscure subsections is understandable, but I would still advise a more diverse variety of sources in those sections if the article is to qualify for FA.
Keep up the excellent work! ~ AMorozov ( talk) 06:09, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
If you look at Wikipedia:Featured article review/Buckingham Palace, there was not a 100% consensus to keep the article, as some called for it to be delisted. One of the main issues was its lack of citations. This can be clearly seen in the last section of the article, where whole paragraphs are uncited. Quite frankly, I'm surprised that article passed its latest review at all. The argument there was that current information on Buckingham Palace should be "common knowledge" and therefore doesn't need a citation. In this regard the reviewers were being extremely lenient, perhaps due to their affinity towards the subject. Economic history of China (Pre-1911) is certainly not common knowledge to an English-speaker, especially since it is not about modern economics. FA reviewers will give your article hell if you do not add more citations, trust me. As for areas which are uncited in your article:-- Pericles of Athens Talk 15:06, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
The new technological advances prompted rulers to reform their governments, discarding the old feudal system. The most extensive of these reforms was carried out in Qin by Shang Yang. His reforms included:
1. Abolishing the old feudal nobility. Nobility, as well as land, was now based on military merit. 2. Discarding the old Jintian system and privatizing land to farmers, who paid a tax in grain to the state. 3. Encouraging the cultivation of unsettled lands.
4. Established a strict legal code with harsh punishments and stressed efficiency.
The initial devastation of the Wu Hu uprising was immense. Large areas were depopulated. Records from the time declared that:
hundreds of miles of land are empty and without trace of human habitation. The Han only live in forts that are hundreds of kilometers apart. In between, is nothing but scorched earth and subject to the rule of the Hu(barbarians).
When Jin fled to the South in 316CE, the southern provinces were still an undeveloped periphery of the Chinese empire. Jin rulers tried their best to develop this region both as a center of rule and as a launch pad for the reconquest of the Chinese heartland.
Faced with defeat, Liu Song quickly collapsed and was replaced in 479 CE by the Qi dynasty. The Qi, and its successor state the Liang, brought about relative civil peace by giving the royal family higher status than the rest of the population and implementing a system of honest governance. These measures resulted in a period of prosperity called the rule of Yongming. The economic prosperity of the south reached an apogee during the Liang dynasty, and briefly reconquered the north with 7,000 troops under the command of the able general Chen Qingzhi. It is recorded that the Liang emperor, Wu Ti, made a grant of 400 million coins to Buddhist monasteries. However, the southern dynasties started to decline after this point due to the popularity of Buddhist temples, who took on at one point half the population as tenants and resulted in a massive loss of tax revenue for the southern government. Towards the end of Liang, the barbarian Hou Jin rebellion devastated southern China. One record reportedly said that:
The areas which had formerly hundreds of families to the mile now are devoid of human life, having nothing but smoke and charred earth.
Surprisingly, the north saw a great economic recovery under the alien administration of Wei that it had not seen even during the prosperous era of Yuanjia. Most of this recovery came under Emperor Xiaowen of Wei, which introduced several important reforms including:
* Moving the capital to Luoyang, which caused that city and the surrounding provinces to be revitalized.
* Banning Xianbei language and customs and introducing Chinese law, language, and surnames. Xianbei officials were now paid with salaries rather than with whatever they looted. * Implementing the Juntian system, in which the state rented land to the peasants who worked on it until death, then returning the land to the state. A smaller, private plot that could be inherited was given to peasants also. Cattle and farm tools were also rented or sold to the peasants. The support that the state gave to agriculture brought massive recovery. * Implementing a system of local officials appointed by the state, rather than relying on local landowners. * Introducing the Fubing system, in which soldiers would farm along with training militarily, and would be called up in times of war. This military system was used until the Tang dynasty, and empowered Han Chinese, as they now made up the majority of the army.
The Sui Dynasty was established over the Northern Zhou, whose throne was usurped by Yang Jian in 581 CE, restoring native rule to north China. Yang Jian quickly enacted a series of policies that restored China's prosperity. His reunification of China marked the creation of what some historians call the "Second Chinese Empire", spanning the Sui, T'ang and Northern Song dynasties. Despite its brevity, the Sui reunified China, and its laws and administration formed the basis of the later Tang, Song and even Ming dynasties. The Sui dynasty had a population of about 45 million at its peak.
A Golden age again came with the Tang Dynasty. The Tang started off in the ruins of the Sui, but rapidly ascended to the top ranks of power. By 630, it had defeated and destroyed the powerful Gokturk Khagnate, removing any threat of China's borders for more than a century. A series of strong rulers, beginning with the founder and including a woman, ruled China well and expanded the Tang Empire massively, to the point that it rivaled the later Yuan, Ming and Qing. The Tang was also a period of rapid economic growth and prosperity, as well as technological advances such as gunpowder. Tang rulers issued large amounts of currency to facilitate trade and distributed land under the Juntian system. Although the state weakened and withdrew from managing the economy in the 9th century, this had the effect of encouraging economic growth and helped China's economy begin to develop into the mercantilism of the Song and Ming Dynasties.
In 960 CE, Zhao Kuangyi led a coup which established the fifth dynasty in half a century. The dynasty that he established, the Song Dynasty, would bring an economic revolution to China.
a figure that would not be matched by Europe until the 18th century.
Economically, the wars in the North proved a burden on the Song economy. Up to 75 percent of Song revenues were devoted to the army, which performed poorly in comparison with earlier Chinese armies.
In 1069 CE, Wang Anshi, a famed Chinese reformer, become chancelor. His ideas resembled the modern welfare state. Believin that the state must provide for the people, he initiated a series of reforms that proved highly controversial.
* The government would directly transport goods in abundance in one region and bring them to another area, without the need for merchants.
* Several industries, including tea, salt, and liquor, were nationalized. * The government would provide loans to peasants in need. * Abolishing forced labor and replacing it with a tax. * The government would give its horses to peasants in peacetime as livestock and recall them in wartime. * Peasants had to participate in military training during lulls in agricultural activity.
The development of new technologies allowed trade and investment on a large scale. Developments in shipping technology, facilitated by the invention of the compass, allowed the Song-era Chinese to engage in large amounts of trade with the outside world. Song-era commercial enterprises became very complex at this time. The accumulated wealth of merchants often rivaled that of the scholar-officials who administered the affairs of government.
The Ming's overseas trade began with Zhu Di, who launched massive expeditions to Southern India and Africa, greatly enhancing China's contacts in those areas. Shortly after, the Ming dynasty established a state-regulated trade in those areas.
his was especially useful in dry, northern regions like Xinjiang and Shanxi. The introduction of these crops may have contributed to Qing military success in the northwest, where the earlier Ming dynasty had been unable to establish firm control. These crops sparked a gigantic increase in population. The population increased from roughly 150-200 million during the Ming to over 450 million during the Qing.
Our land is so wealthy and prosperous, that we possess all things. Therefore there is no need to exchange the produce of foreign barbarians for our own.
he resulting treaty saw concessions given to European powers in China, undermining Chinese authority. The Opium Wars began a pattern of war, defeat, concessions, and silver payments to foreign powers, which further weakened the Chinese government and economy through outflow of silver.
I noticed that in some sections with multiple paragraphs, you simply have a citation at the very end of the last paragraph. If your intent was to have that citation cover the entire section, unfortunately this will not be enough, as you need at least one citation per paragraph to clearly indicate where the material came from.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 15:12, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
The prose is technically proficient, but I can't say it is "brilliant" or "engaging". I am no brilliant writer myself, so I cannot offer much help here. You should try to maintain a more professional, detached tone, imagine as though you were writing an entry on Brittanica. For example:
"The good days of the Song were interrupted by the..." could be rewritten as
"The prosperity enjoyed during the Song dynasty came to an end when..."
"After losing to Japan in 1894..." to
"After its defeat in the first Sino-Japanese war..." etc.
And it's little things that make up unencyclopedic language, like:
"...Northern Wei went downhill." could be changed to
"...the Northern Wei dynasty began to deteriorate."
Try to limit "sensational" words like crushed, disruption, etc.
It might be a good idea to tone down the "native" vs "foreign" rule aspect a bit, and simply let the evidence speak for itself. For example, under "Reunification of China":
"Now that both Chinese regimes were native, the southern dynasty of Chen no longer had an advantage over Sui."
(This might need rewriting, or a source that firmly asserts foreign rule was at a disadvantage to native rule)
You should ask copyeditors to help with prose when they look over the article. Also, remember to link every important person, tribe and concept the first time they're mentioned in the article. Non-english terms should be italicized (juntian, jiedushi etc), with the exception of place names and dynasty names. Also consider merging some of the subsections together. If a section is unlikely to be expanded in the future on this article, some reviewers might want it condensed and put together with another section.
Above all, listen to Pericles of Athens, he knows what he's doin'! Hah! Good luck with FA. ~ AMorozov 〈talk〉 00:48, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
This is all very sound advice, Morozov! Well done. Sorry Teen; the only copyeditors that I know belong to the Guild of Copyeditors. Outside of their group, I don't know anyone who would be interested. That is, except for maybe User:Nlu, but he's a loner who likes to do things by himself and doesn't always want to collaborate with others on articles (which is just fine, since he's damn good at writing Han/Jin/Sixteen Dynasties/Sui/Tang/Five Dynasties/Song biography articles). Maybe the editors are being non-responsive because they took a look at the size of your article and ran for the hills! Lol. I hope that's not the case. I wish you the best of luck. As for now, my Wiki energies are full-throttle towards writing the draft for Ancient Egyptian literature.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 01:54, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Arilang talk 13:47, 24 July 2009 (UTC) (Ctrl-click)"> http://www.han5000.com/viewthread.php?tid=9335&page=1 Arilang talk 13:47, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
Please check commons:中國遠征軍 and zh:中國遠征軍, need a proper name for an new en:wiki, please suggest a good one. Arilang talk 16:44, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
Delivered by -- Tinu Cherian BOT - 13:23, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
I really apologize if I seemed rude in not responding to your posts in a timely manner. I was quite engrossed in my latest project. I would be happy to copyedit the article again, and will start tonight. However, since I did the original copyedit, and one is more likely not to recognize mistakes in their own work, I would suggest that someone else from the guild copyedit it further after I finish. Cheers! Scapler ( talk) 17:16, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
It's done. Ancient Egyptian literature that is. Have a look and tell me what you think! I've spent a lot of time on it, and I think it turned out very, very well.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 08:19, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Delivered by SoxBot ( talk) at 06:29, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
The
July 2009 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
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You make good points; I can't seem to refute anything you've said right off the bat in terms of Classical Liberalism (I will, however, get to laissez-faire in the paragraph below). You were careful to note that premodern Chinese philosophies had incorporated "important elements" of Classical Liberalism, as opposed to Classical Liberalism being an original product of China.
Although the Eastern Han regime could be said to be much more laissez-faire than Western Han, some Eastern-Han rulers, such as Huan and Ling, did act in despotic ways and often with no regard for the state treasury. Even though the Western Han from Emperor Wu's reign forward is characteristically known for its monopolies over salt and iron, one must remember that in these premodern economies, government regulation was haphazard and most things were done privately. Much the same could be said for the Tang, although the economy tilted much more in favor of the laissez-faire model after the An Lushan Rebellion, when the central government could no longer afford to maintain its various bureaucratic regulations to control private markets. I would say that the Song economy was far less restricted than Tang's. For example, there were no arbitrary night curfews imposed on the urban markets managed by the government. The Ming could be said to follow in the Song's footsteps in regards to free-for-all domestic trade, except for Hongwu's reign, which put serious restrictions on the merchant community due to his paranoia about the merchant class. Yet when it came to foreign trade, for a long time the Ming established a choke-hold where only a few selected ports would deal with specially-designated foreign traders at carefully timed intervals. That was hardly laissez-faire. Of course, this policy was wisely disestablished in the middle of the 16th century, and was only established after Yongle's reign as a means to halt the ambitious elements at court (the eunuch faction which had sponsored Yongle's monumental tributary fleet sent abroad to trade and collect tribute).-- Pericles of Athens Talk 23:38, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
Delivered by SoxBot ( talk) at 05:54, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s2625923.htm There is a video link on this page:Experts discuss China's rise, click on it you can watch the whole TV episode.
HUGH WHITE: Well, I think we are facing something very important here - that is that we are starting to work in a world in which very big and powerful states are governed in a way very different from ourselves. We have been a very lucky country. For a long time we have lived in a world where the rules are set by our big and powerful friends. We are now moving into a world in which, Australia in particular and for the world in general, very powerful countries like China, immensely influential in the international system and the global economy, are governed in very different ways.
Teen, this is what I mean by Tianchao Daguo, what you think? Arilang talk 08:58, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
You wrote "What is international law? International Law is the law of the strong. The weak has no say in it. Was there International law when the British shipped opium to China? When Europe uses carbon taxes as protective tariffs? When the Americans subjugated Iraq and Afghanistan and killed over a million people? When the US denied CHina was a market economy? In international affairs, the only thing that counts is your strength. There is no law. Of course, I don't advocate an aggressive foreign policy(China should keep to her own affairs and develop), but when the west criticizes China of not respecting international law, they are blatant hypocrites."
In response to your lengthy comments on my talk page:
Where did the "Taiwanese" come from? They came from China. In fact, Taiwan was a province of China since the Imperial Era,
and was until its illegal annexation in 1895 by Japan. When the illegal annexation was overturned,
it returned to Chinese soverignty.
When, in all of this, did the "One million chinese with guns" come and take it over?
When the Chinese first settled the island, it was a desolate island populated only by aborigines,
there were no "Taiwanese" to speak of, unless you count the aborigines as Taiwanese.
And if you refer to the aborigines of the island as "Taiwanese", that further undermines your case as these aborigines do not support Taiwanese independance. You also claim that "all the decisions were made by people outside Taiwan"; yes, so? All the decisions in the United States are made in Washington and all the decisions in Canada are made in Ottawa. Does that mean that a state of the U.S., or a province of Canada, has the right to independance? The answer is uneqivocally no. The terroritory is part of the nation and therefore has to respect decisions made by the national government(even though these governments are often wrong). Constitutions and laws are made on a national basis.
In no period of history has Taiwan ever been an independant nation(it was a part of either China or Japan).
And your position of Taiwanese independance isn't even supported by the population of Taiwan itself; opinion polls in Taiwan regularly favor maintaining the status quo, instead of independance.
So even using the liberal principle of terroritorial self-determination, Taiwan would not become an independant state. As I stated earlier, even the government of Taiwan explicitly recognizes itself as the "Republic of China", and this was not changed ever under the pro-independance administration of Chen Shui bian, further proof that this current name is supported by the population of Taiwan.
You mention that many English-speaking countries have become independant from the English Empire. However, this independance was supported by the majority of the population of these areas, and in some cases the English government as well.
During the era of Maoist rule on the mainland, no Taiwanese would wanted to become a part of China due to Mao's heinous crimes and atrocities against the the nation, but now China has largely restored a market economy and adopted free market policies that were its tradition, it is again prospering after three centuries of barbarian rule and warfare. If Taiwan was peacefully reunified with China, it would not only not suffer any harm but also prosper economically as it would be able to access Chinese markets without any barriers.
There would also be no cultural or ethnic conflicts(which make countries unstable and states based on one nation more prevalent than multiethnic ones).
As free market economists know, rational self-interest is the prime motivator of society. You'd be hard pressed to think how independance could be in the self interest of the inhabitants of Taiwan, or how reunification could be against it.
Readin ( talk) 16:46, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
You wrote
You refer to "Taiwanese", but you have yet to define it. What are Taiwanese? Do you refer to the aborigine inhabitants? To all pre-1949 Chinese who immigrated there but not to those after 1949? To the Hoklo, but excluding other groups? Or to the inhabitants of the island themselves? Clearly the latter is the only assumption.
And how did Taiwan "Suffer" as a Chinese "colony" and "colonialism"? From a barren island, Chiang developed Taiwan into a great center of industry and trade that enjoys one of the world's living standards. He bought much treasure and gold from China, as well as modern industry and knowledge. Now without this "colonialism", I ask you, How would Taiwan have developed? Could it have prospered under the rapacious rule of the Japanese? or would it languish in third-world conditions as an "independnat state"? How, in any way, has it suffered from Chinese "Colonialism"?
Not to mention you refer to "Chinese" as if they were foreign. Are not the inhabitants of Taiwan all ethnically and culturally Chinese? Have not the island been a part of China for almost all of its civilized history? It is a wonder that you refer to some category of Chinese on Taiwan as "Taiwanese" and others as "Chinese". Such arbitary judgements cannot withstand any scrutiny. Teeninvestor ( talk) 23:40, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
I asked if President Ma considers himself Taiwanese. I did not define the term. How does Ma define it?
The Japanese developed Taiwan into a prosperous region and built much infrastructure and increased literacy. Chiang tore part of it down to send to China, but much still remained.
According to "A short history of Taiwan: the case for independence" By Gary Marvin Davison, page 64. "Basic literacy came to most of the school-aged populace by the end of the Japanese tenure on Taiwan. School attendence for Taiwanese children rose steadily throughout the Japanese era, from 3.8 percent in 1904 to 13.1 percent in 1917; 25.1 percent in 1920; 41.5 percent in 1935; 57.6 percent in 1940; and 71.3 percent in 1943."
Your claims about the economic growth of Taiwan as an ROC colony are only partly true. You neglect to mention that the real difficult groundwork was laid during Japanese rule.
Not to mention you refer to "Chinese" as if they were foreign. You have referred to Europeans as if they are foreign. Did Europeans and Chinese all come from Africa? Aren't they all the same ancestry? Do they not practice similar cultures of respecting ancestors, forming families of parents with children? Do they not all use written and spoken language? Sure there are some minor differences, but so what? Shouldn't China have submitted to their English brothers long ago? Doesn't being family mean you have the right to enslave your relatives and tell them how they can use their land?
In the U.S. white Americans refer to all Europeans as "foreign", even the English who speak the same language and have the same culture. black Americans refer to Africans as "foreign".
Similar ancestry and similar culture do not grant you the right to boss others around. Readin ( talk) 17:18, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
I'll let you have the last word. Wikipedia is not a forum. I'll read what you write but will likely not respond to it. Readin ( talk) 17:19, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Someone seems really keen on screaming out about the Human Rights Torch Relay. Despite being told numerous times that such a minor event is irrelevant to the article, which is based on the events which occurred during the 2008 Relay, stubbornness prevails. -- 李博杰 | — Talk contribs email 14:21, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
http://news.boxun.com/news/gb/intl/2009/08/200908162113.shtml 访海外首座二战海外中国阵亡军人陵园的创建者. Arilang talk 20:53, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Delivered by SoxBot ( talk) at 04:30, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
The Wikipedia:Article Rescue Squadron Newsletter | |||||
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Content |
I've seen your edits and it looks like we share similar interests. I too enjoy video games, Chinese history, and Chinese politics. Hopefully we can collaborate in articles in the future.-- PCPP ( talk) 03:03, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
I hope you like this one:
Arilang talk 00:03, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
Hi, how's it going. I've been poking in and out of Wiki over the past two weeks, but have not been very active lately. To answer your question about Byzantium, no, the Byzantines never adopted the feudal socioeconomic system of Western Europe during the Middle Ages. Byzantium, having a strong central imperial government for much of its existence (with notable exceptions), did not heavily rely on a multitude of lords to rule semi-autonomous fiefs, regardless of the existence of an aristocracy. There were no serfs and no real form of serfdom in Byzantium. Like Han China, however, there was a strong base of small independent landowner-cultivators, along with wealthy estate owners who collected rent from farming tenants and wage laborers. From what I gather, there were many more wage laborers in Byzantium than there ever were in Han China.
About the Second Sino-Japanese War article: if that person is still making trouble, let me know. I've put the page on my watchlist just in case.
And I wish you the best of luck in your nomination of Economic history of China (Pre-1911)! You've put a great deal of effort in writing that article and it deserves to be featured. I just hope no one gripes too loudly about the size of the article, but that should be expected. My nomination for History of the Han Dynasty was derailed for this very reason. Regards.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 16:38, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
I have created alt text for the first several images, with fifteen more to go - they are all yours. If you read what I've already done, as well as the alt text I used for Ancient Egyptian literature, I think you will learn fairly quickly how to write alt text. You simply describe in the most explicit terms what is seen in the image. For example, the Han-dynasty pottery dog image has a caption which describes its importance in the funerary industry, while the alt text specifically states that it is a green-glazed dog standing upright on all fours with pointy ears, a curly tail, and open eyes. If you have any questions about alt text, leave a message on my talk page, or simply look at more examples from Wikipedia:Alternative text for images. Cheers.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 18:02, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Teen, a happy chap among happy girls. Arilang talk 22:00, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Delivered by SoxBot ( talk) at 06:43, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
For examples:
Perhaps it's just my style, but I don't consider excessive background on each and every era and statement to be good for an article. If I had been carrying out the GA review, I would have brought up my concerns earlier. MasterOfHisOwnDomain ( talk) 20:50, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
Hi, Teeninvestor, long time no see. First I congratulate your successful GA (a bit belated) and achievement to get the article to the current FA nomination. I wish you best of lucks. And the reason I'm visiting here is that I want to ask about copy-editor. I vaguely recall that you requested help for copyeding, and a couple of editors came to help you. It is not Chinese WikiProject, so if Wikipedia has some venue to help editors find copyediotrs, I want to know about the place. Because I have copyeditors for the article of Gyeongju (I've been working on the article for 2 months to prevent from FA delisting). So your input would be appreciated. Thanks.-- Caspian blue 22:59, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Hi Teen,
Like CaspianBlue, I think the FAC was closed too early. It feels like we were only getting started! I don't think the article would have passed in the end, but at least we were improving it fast.
I feel bad for not having helped at all in the last few months, so I'll try to make more suggestions in the next few days. For one, try to work on entire paragraphs instead of adding sentences here and there (like you did with the Xia, for example). FA's need to hold together better than other wikis, so the structure of paragraphs is important. It's good to have guiding threads and recurrent themes, but there shouldn't be too many repetitions. For example, the decline or end of the "feudal system" or the "well-field system" is announced at least four different times in the "Spring and Autumn" and "Warring States" sections.
You'll find great info on the economy of the Spring and Autumn period in Hsu Cho-yun's article in the Cambridge History of Ancient China. Another book you could find is Hsu's Ancient China in Transition, which he cites a lot in his CHAC article. Mark Edward Lewis explains Shang Yang's reforms very well, saying that many of these reforms had already been adopted in other states before Shang Yang promulgated them.
You could contrast the agrarian economy of the Qin with the more commercialized economy of some other states.
I agree with MasterofHisOwnDomain that some passages focus too much on politics and not enough on the economy. He gave you good examples above on this talk page. Another good example is that the Qing section says more about the queue order than about the economy of the entire eighteenth century! I doubt you'll find any reliable source saying that the queue has anything to do with the economy.
As usual, scholarly sources are what you need. The clearing of the shoreline has something to do with the economy, and maybe massacres in general do to (though we need a reliable source making this link), but the queue and Hanfu seem totally unrelated to the wiki's topic even if they are well referenced.
Incidentally, the Qing dynasty was founded by the Manchus (a people), not by "the Manchu tribe," and even less by the Jurchens (which is not Jur'chen, which sounds like Jem'Hadar).
When you need historical background, good wikilinks can do the work. For a great lead section that focuses on the topic at hand while giving background at the same time, see PoA's intro to List of Chinese inventions. It's packed with information on inventions. But I suggest you work on the core of the article before you improve the lead, because the lead will be based on the content of the article anyway. When you're done editing all the content, you'll probably agree that you don't have to mention the historicity of the Xia and Shang dynasty in the lead, because this is not an issue in economic history.
Gotta stop, now, but I can give more specific advice if you need. Have fun editing! Madalibi ( talk) 04:58, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
...at Talk:Republic of China#Proposing Article Title Change. Thanks! -- 李博杰 | — Talk contribs email 03:22, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
If you're interested, there's a dispute here over the naming of the party [1].-- PCPP ( talk) 04:22, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
CEDEC 09: Keynote - Gundam Creator: 'Video Games Are Evil' - ""I think that video games are evil," says Tomino. "[Gaming] is not a type of activity that provides any support to our daily lives, and all these consoles are just consuming electricity! Let's say we have about three billion people on this planet wasting their time, bringing no productivity at all. Add 10 billion more people, and what would happen to our planet? Video games are assisting the death of our planet!"" Regards, -- 李博杰 | — Talk contribs email 08:33, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
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支持 全國政協委員潘慶林建議恢復使用正體字 Arilang talk 07:46, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
Voting in the
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talk 22:09, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
I just created an article for Xi (surname) because it had been redlinked from Xi Jinping until now. I have very little knowledge of Chinese, however, and would appreciate if someone who speaks the language can look over the article and correct any mistakes I've made. I apologize if this seems random but you are the only person I know on Wikipedia who is active and can read Chinese. -- Soap Talk/ Contributions 20:42, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
Eric here; how's it going. About modern Chinese people's preference today for the Yuan and Qing and not so much the Ming: I wouldn't know how to explain this phenomenon either. Perhaps they are interested in the exotic culture (i.e. not Han) of the rulers of these dynasties? Lol. In any case I wouldn't perceive it to be so much as an insult to Han culture as it is merely acceptance of Mongol and Manchu culture. However, the difference here is that these were militarily imposed cultures rather than ones where attributes of one culture were freely adopted by another via trade contact, religious missions, and other natural cultural exchanges. In light of that, I could see where offense is warranted. As for "white" people (specifically Westerners) immigrating to China, surprise, I'll be one of those soon! Well, at least for a couple of years as a volunteer, since I have submitted my application to join the Peace Corps! I will probably teach English to Chinese youngsters and I am aiming to finish my Masters out there via an international Masters program while working for the Peace Corps. When I come back to the States I'll also have non-competitive eligibility for employment in government office. As for the Chinese diaspora to places like Canada and the United States, such was the natural result of warfare six decades ago, tightly-controlled communist rule up until Mao Zedong's death, and the economic growing pains over the past three decades of China's massive transition towards a capitalist economic system. You're one of many who left, so don't feel too unfortunate. Besides, by the time you're 30, China should certainly look attractive enough for you to move back to. That is if the PRC takes much more drastic measures to curb deforestation, poverty (= societal unrest, especially among minority ethnic groups), and pollution, which are foreseeable crises for the future, and not just in China. Cheers.-- Pericles of Athens Talk 11:53, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
http://hi.baidu.com/02708002/blog/item/f3bf1e62caf349d58db10d92.html
I like the Homer Simpson-Chairman Mao's body bit. Arilang talk 07:19, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
Arilang talk 16:25, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
the best Chinese TV drama I have ever watch. Arilang talk 08:09, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
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Hello, I seen (not read XD) you article Economic history of China (Pre-1911)... Good ! And I later understood you are still teenager ! Amazing ! Very strong ! For some other points :
Any way : all my encouragement ! you do a great job ! Keep in touch with PericlesofAthens and user:Nlu: theire are the best ! bye Yug (talk) 07:33, 3 October 2009 (UTC) (台中,台湾) :Please, also note that there is a new system to make references :
Extended content
|
---|
Text.
[1]
Text.<ref name="ebrey 1999 147">{{Harvnb|Ebrey|1999|p=147}}.</ref> {{reflist|colwidth=20em}} *{{citation |last=Ebrey |first=Patricia Buckley |title=The Cambridge Illustrated History of China |year=1999 |publisher=[[Cambridge University Press]] |location=Cambridge |isbn=052166991X }} (paperback). |
Bye -- Yug (talk) 07:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Where would this belong? Cheers, -- 李博杰 | — Talk contribs email 00:29, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
WP:CAPS I moved this page because it was miscapitalized. I don't know what you mean when you say that I messed up the intro, as I did not actually amend the text. If you need to respond, please do so on my talk. — Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 23:54, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
From only four contributions he has made so far, none of them are obvious vandalism. Please assume good faith. The first two could be misguided attempts to comment on the article (not knowing the presence of the talk page). The 3rd edit is iffy, but the fourth one seems to be in good faith, though poorly worded and irrelevant to the article. -- Patar knight - chat/ contributions 02:36, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, please have a look at Lou Jing, may be you can add some comments? Arilang talk 14:03, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Auntieruth55 ( talk) 02:19, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Auntieruth55 ( talk) 02:20, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Auntieruth55 ( talk) 18:00, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps you have a quirky sense of humor, or perhaps you are unaware that Lawrencekhoo is a rather committed and active opponent of the Austrian School here on Wikipedia. In any case, I wanted to make a few quick points to you:
— SlamDiego ←T 06:49, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
As a member of the Military history WikiProject or World War I task force, you may be interested in competing in the Henry Allingham International Contest! The contest aims to improve article quality and member participation within the World War I task force. It will also be a step in preparing for Operation Great War Centennial, the project's commemorative effort for the World War I centenary.
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Does this look NPOV to you? -- 李博杰 | — Talk contribs email 07:19, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
I have engaged a procedure for amending Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty.
Naturally, the process requires me to notify you. -- Tenmei ( talk) 00:52, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
What you think of this image?
Arilang talk 03:40, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Do you mean my reverting the unexplained mass deletion of section Military at Ming Dynasty on November 24? The content was not inserted by me. I just reverted the mass deletion because Yongle the Great did not provide any reason for his/her deletion. The content was re-deleted by PericlesofAthens, and an explanation was provided in the edit summary: "This content was not vetted for the FAC process, nor is it even cited. For all I know, it came directly from an online source. Anonymous IPs do that. It's called vandalism." This deleted section Military was actually added by Kungkang at 04:20, 11 November 2009. You may ask him/her for sources.-- Pengyanan ( talk) 03:45, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Anna Frodesiak found that this section was probably from this page. -- Pengyanan ( talk) 04:05, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Comparison between Roman and Han Empires. Gun Powder Ma ( talk) 02:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC) (Using {{ Please see}})
If you feel like doing so, you are allowed to contact every single person who participated in the last AFD. Canvassing rules say you can't just contact some of them though, you having to do it with everyone. Those who wished to participate last time, will surely want to participate again, since it is the same AFD is before. Dream Focus 21:16, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
The article you created was just deleted? | ||
All is not lost. Here is what you can do right now: | ||
Many administrators will be happy to give you a copy of your deleted article, either by putting it on a special user page for you (a process called userfication) or by e-mailing you a copy.
Once you have the article, you can try to resolve the issues why it was deleted. If you've repaired the article, or you believe the reasons for deleting the article were in error, you can dispute the deletion at Deletion Review. Generally, you must show how the previous deletion(s) were in error, but this is the place to resolve disputes about whether a deletion was wrong. |
Ikip ( talk) 01:32, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
As a fellow editor who has seen your well referenced hard work faced with deletion, I think you maybe interested in our 300+ strong wikiproject,
|
Thanks for your help! I am already a member of WP:ARS, which did help this article get saved from deletion a year ago. Unfortunately the same group is back. However, I can't say this hasn't been beneficial in a way as the article has been improved as some redundant sections were deleted and new ones sourced from scholarly ones added. If you're interested, can you also take a look at Economic history of China (pre-1911), which is up for FAC? Thanks. Teeninvestor ( talk) 01:35, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Teeninvestor - I understand you're a little amped up on the issue of deleting the Comparison_between_Roman_and_Han_Empires article, but please try to use proper indenting and bullet points to keep the discussion structure from falling to pieces. if you don't know what's needed, I'll happily advise you, but throwing your comments in at root level all the time makes things really difficult to read. -- Ludwigs2 22:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Based on the number of deletes and keeps made at the AFD, do you think the article will be kept? Teeninvestor ( talk) 18:17, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
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Hi, I will leave my comment to the FAC, but that would take some time for me to read the whole and really lengthy article. I have some issues with the article, so well...just keep editing if some reviewers point out something to be fixed. Good luck! -- Caspian blue 00:28, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
I would suggest curbing your rhetoric so as not to get too many editors angry with you. I know it is frustrating to see all of this bickering about something you think should be covered in Wikipedia, but please be careful. For instance the "crying" in your last comment. That approach may give more momentem to an actual delete. Thanks, 14:49, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Hi there! I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. Recently, you reverted my fix to Economic history of China (pre-1911).
If you did this because the references should be removed from the article, you have misunderstood the situation. Most likely, the article originally contained both <ref name="foo">...</ref>
and one or more <ref name="foo"/>
referring to it. Someone then removed the <ref name="foo">...</ref>
but left the <ref name="foo"/>
, which results in a big red error in the article. I replaced one of the remaining <ref name="foo"/>
with a copy of the <ref name="foo">...</ref>
; I did not re-insert the reference to where it was deleted, I just replaced one of the remaining instances. What you need to do to fix it is to make sure you remove all instances of the named reference so as to not leave any big red error.
If you reverted because I made an actual mistake, please be sure to also correct any reference errors in the page so I won't come back and make the same mistake again. Also, please post an error report at
User talk:AnomieBOT so my operator can fix me! If the error is so urgent that I need to be stopped, also post a message at
User:AnomieBOT/shutoff/OrphanReferenceFixer. Thanks!
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I told you to simply be happy with the close you have. I told you that if you took this to DRV, it would be upheld, now you have opened a ANI and RFC about this? *Sigh* Have you made any changes to the article since the AFD?
I guess I shouldn't be surprised, your tenacity in getting the article moved to the incubator is not going to magically stop once the AFD is closed. But I think you are now pushing this way to far.
I for one, am worried that since you are the face of ARS in the newsletter, this behavior will look badly on ARS has a whole. Ikip 18:36, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Stepping into my role as an administrator, I am officially warning you not to canvas. Your opinion is clearly that the article should be restored and you are attempting to force the issue.Consensus is not yet on your side and informing only a handful of people, who voted keep at the AfD, of the RfC and the preceding petition is not acceptable [2] [3] [4]. I have previously warned you informally and persisting is not acceptable. If you continue, you will be blocked. Nev1 ( talk) 19:04, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Your getting a little antsy about the Comparison of Roman and Han empires. Why don't you let the article sit for a handful of days and see if anyone adds any more edits. Sorry I didn't do very much this weekend. Sadads ( talk) 20:58, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
[5] [6] [7] I think it is safe to say that at this point everyone knows you are unhappy about the AfD close of Comparison between Roman and Han Empires. Jumping from forum to forum in an attempt to get the close overturned is inappropriate. You need to stop focusing on getting your desired outcome and start focusing on improving the article. Any more attempts to shop this issue to another forum will result in a short block. AniMate 21:00, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
This isn't the first time I've had to warn you about personal attacks. This one is about calling an editor a hypocrite. I'm sure you know that this isn't acceptable. Dougweller ( talk) 21:35, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
could you answer this simple question? Thanks, Nev1 ( talk) 22:14, 27 December 2009 (UTC)