CNN Guests Think Brown Shooting Audio Is A Hoax [VIDEO] Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/27/cnn-guests-think-brown-shooting-audio-is-a-hoax-video/#ixzz3BhociwFp http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/27/cnn-guests-think-brown-shooting-audio-is-a-hoax-video/ Basis: >> “All accounts, from Brown’s side and the officer’s side say there was a single shot fired initially at the door of the police car,” said Fuentes. “We’re missing that first shot.” <<
Question. Didn't any of your mothers model positive reinforcement when you were kids? I'm two weeks old as a Wikipedia editor. And I've done a lot of positives for this article. And someone once thanked me. And then they probably got removed from being able to edit the article. What a miserable experience this has been. But fighting for accurate and fair reporting is like that, I guess. Cause well you know, people who will lie in a Wikipedia article probably aren't going to be choir boys, know what I mean?
Question: Is there a way to private message someone such that the conversation is just between two people and not visible to all? I ask because at this point, the hostility that I am feeling in the form of perpetual reprimands on public pages is convincing me that being a Wikipedia editor is a lot of work for nothing but pain. And I have been dealt enough pain in the last several days.
So if you want to dish me more pain, then at least have the decency to tell me how I can legally tell you how to contact me privately, rather than refusing to answer the simple question that not one person has been willing to answer, which is what recent post have I made either on the Talk page of the Article page that is deserving of a permanent ban. If you cannot answer that question and you are not willing to give me a back channel for discussion, don't bother posting here. It will be deleted and will just put you on my blacklist of people I'd prefer never to acknowledge as I work here.
This is, after all, my page. Do I have any control of the content here at all? Or am I just a cog in another exploitative crowdsourcing operation where some make bank and where the rest of us don't -- all while getting slapped around for our numerous notable and positive contributions.
Can't help but notice that my attempts to retract got reverted. Further reinforcing the notion that it's insane to ever comment on the talk page. You can't delete. You can't retract. And you can't do away with the fact that you were too stupid to not hide behind a white sheet when you created your account. What an uncool place to be considering the lack of pay and the opportunity costs. All in all, Wikipedia ranks somewhere between bed of nails and hot coals, I guess. Makes you wonder about the lives of those who really do it full time without being paid. Yeah, that's self-implicating. I can live with that.
So much for all of these suggestions that rather than just do something on the article itself, you should try to build consensus on the Talk page. I guess that works if there's someone on your side of a fight. In this article, either you believe the eyewitnesses or you don't. I believe them. Whether anyone else on the "team" is of that mindset is something I am completely unclear on at present. Which means that an attempt to build consensus is probably doomed to failure if the consensus building revolves around a reliance on what named witnesses (as opposed to leaked unnamed witnesses) have to say. Michael-Ridgway ( talk) 08:34, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
This is your only warning; if you remove or blank page contents or templates from Wikipedia again, as you did at Talk:Shooting of Michael Brown, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. Warned on the record for blanking talk page contributions. Examples: [1], [2], [3] Veggies ( talk) 15:58, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you use talk pages for inappropriate discussions, as you did at Talk:Shooting of Michael Brown. Warned on the record for using the talk page as a forum. Examples: [4], [5], [6] Veggies ( talk) 16:05, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
Hi. Can I offer you a rather simple suggestion? Or are you not interested? Let me know. Thanks. Please reply at my Talk Page. Joseph A. Spadaro ( talk) 16:34, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
Sure, but can we do this privately? Like through email, Skype, Google Hangouts or by phone? I really don't appreciate all of this slam stuff being left up on my personal page. I haven't treated anyone like this since I have been here. Why is everyone thinking that it's cool to treat me this way?
The way things are going, you may well be heading for a block before long. However, contrary to what you seem to think, if and when the block comes, it will not be because there are a lot of evil people on Wikipedia. It will be because when you see people doing or saying things that you believe are wrong, instead of responding as though you think you are dealing with good-faith volunteers who happen to have made a mistake, you respond angrily and aggressively, very often contemptuosly dismissing the person in question, and often using sarcasm and irony to ridicule and belittle them. I have been editing Wikipedia for eight years, and in that time I have seen innumerable new editors, some of whom are still here, and some aren't. In my experience, an editor who addresses other editors with respect, even when he or she thinks they don't deserve respect, has a far greater likelihood of getting a significant proportion of the changes that he or she thinks should be made than one who acts in a way that antagonises other editors. The editor who uses the pseudonym " JamesBWatson" ( talk) 18:17, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
My apologies to Joseph A. Spadaro. I now understand that striking isn't what veggies was talking about when he used the word "blanking" in a final warning that a permanent ban was possible with no further warnings. Michael-Ridgway ( talk) 20:39, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
You really need to familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's policies. I understand that you feel strongly about the shooting. Hell, I probably agree with your overall thoughts on the shooting. But I'm not editing the article (or suggesting that the article be edited) to advocate a position or to make an argument. You, on the other hand, are doing this constantly and explicitly on the article's talk page. It is becoming EXTREMELY irritating to me and to other editors. I don't want to recommend that you be topic-banned or blocked or otherwise disciplined, but it is becoming evident that you clearly haven't tried to understand the policies that govern how we edit (and, more importantly, WHY we edit). It is not a forum for discussion about what REALLY happened. And it's entirely unhelpful when your response to criticism is (apparently) to complain about how awful Wikipedia and its users are or to suggest that there's some kind of conspiracy to include "bad" content or to fill up the talk page with walls of text about tangential matters. Dyrnych ( talk) 23:18, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
And by the way, everything you write irritates me. But you don't see me trying to ban you, now do you? Michael-Ridgway ( talk) 23:24, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
Michael-Ridgway ( talk) 23:52, 24 August 2014 (UTC) Are or was? I've tried really hard to clean up my act and I think I deserve credit for the same. So if it wouldn't be too much to ask, can you point me to something that is clearly a firing offense that I've posted today? I'll be happy to put those little s-es of shame around it just so people will know that I have once again been brought to remorse by the helpful feedback of my colleagues here. Until then, though, I find your criticisms just so void due to vagueness, know what I mean? Michael-Ridgway ( talk) 23:51, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
To the masters of discipline on the site: Is it really appropriate to question another's "maturity" in posts on their personal page? I ask because, well, I'm still learning the ropes and really don't know. Michael-Ridgway ( talk) 23:53, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
Would it surprise anyone to know that I don't get kudos for the work I have done on this article? Michael-Ridgway ( talk) 21:38, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
Please note that 3 reverts as defined by that policy within 24 hours is a "bright line" exceeding which may result in a block or ban of an editor. You appear to have reached that bright line limit at the Shooting article. I urgently you be very sure before making a fourth revert or partial revert on that article within 24 hours. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 13:55, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
When creating a new section, please consider using the "new section" tab at the top of most screens. This lets you avoid having to use ===XXX=== and more importantly it lets editors who are looking at the history of a talk page see precisely when the new section was created. For example, you created a new section on one of the Brown articles just now, and it appeared to me (and others) that you were responding to the previous section. That said, you don't have to do it, it's just a nicety. Two kinds of pork ( talk) 06:05, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
I know that you are aware, since you commented in the section on the article topic, but just to make sure all the i-s are dotted.
The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.
Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.
This message is informational only and does not imply misconduct regarding your contributions to date.Please note that individual WP article talk pages are not a place for extended discussion of fundamental inadequacies of the WP editing process. There are countless places on WP that do aim to foster such discussion. I have not been involved at this article, and am leaving you this note only because it seems other editors have tried unsuccessfully to make the same point. In this instance you can rest assured that there is some experienced WP editor out there who shares your views and is keeping an eye on the article. Centrify (f / k / a FCAYS) (talk) (contribs) 16:56, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
You see everyone? This is what I get. Unsolicited advice just dropped with loads of presuppositions that I am supposed to accept as true. And then, dead silence from a person who was never interested in two way conversation. So what are they interested in, I ask? Just creating enough bogus data points to bang me out of the editing pool? I'll leave that to each of you to answer. I must say, thought, there isn't much to like about being in this space. But to exit this space leaves it in the control of the people who make it so hostile. Thomas Jefferson warned me that there would be days like this. Michael-Ridgway ( talk) 21:35, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
(contribs) 23:19, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
I was out of town this weekend, but I thought I saw a comment from you I am curious about. I apologize, I cannot find the comment at present, so I may be misremembering your comment, or it may be a very old comment that I noticed as it got rendered in a diff for archiving or something. Anyway the gist of the comment (as I remember it) was something about there being proof that brown was shot at at least six times while running away (or towards his back). I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion.
Because of #5 + #3, it seems pretty logical that all the final 4 shots were front facing (based both on timing, and the lack of witness statements describing a spinning while being shot or something).
So, if all 4 final shots hit, that still leaves 1 or 2 shots that needed to come from the front in the earlier volley. If any of the final shots missed, that means even more shots from the first volley. Since the first volley was also of short duration, having some of those be front and some of them back seems unlikely. The only obvious time for a switch from back to front is the 3 second pause. But if some of the shots from the first volley mathematically need to be front shots, there isn't enough time for the switching?
Certainly one can come up with some scenarios that work out for any hypothesis, there is a lot we don't know. If the 1st unrecorded shot was a hit etc.
But your comment (again, as I remember it) was something along the lines of "its obvious/proven he was shot at 6 times while running away/at the back" which I don't see as anywhere close to obvious.
Anyway, looking forward to your response. Gaijin42 ( talk) 14:51, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
For the next day or so, I would like to compile as many of the statements made by as many of the witnesses regarding the shot that convinced Michael to stop running as I can.
I'll put them right here. Would you have time to help in the compilation of those statements? If we assume good faith on the part of the witnesses who have come forward, I believe a central plausible theme will emerge.
Michael-Ridgway ( talk) 18:39, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
Chief Jon Belmar speaking at his August 10 news conference: Makes no mention of shots being fired while Brown was fleeing the scene.
Chief Jon Belmar when interviewed on MSNBC with St. Louis County Executive Charlie Dooley at his side: Apparently doesn't provide any details about what Brown or Wilson did between the first shot fired before Michael fled and that Michael turned around to face the officer.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/eyewitness-michael-brown-fatal-shooting-missouri
Josie during a call into the Dana Loesch Show (local to St. Louis): Josie describes Michael running away but makes no mention of any shots being fired at that time. She claims that while Michael was running, that Wilson's yelled out "Freeze!" and that at that moment, Michael turned around and began to taunt the police officer, challenging his resolve to actually shoot him. Then, without mentioning any provocation, claims that Michael begins to run at Wilson "at full speed."
Dorian Johnson when interviewed at the crime scene on August 9: And we took off running.... He shot again, and when my friend felt that shot, he turned around. he fired several more shots.
Michael Brady interviewed by Anderson Cooper: I come in to say something to my fiancee in the kitchen and then I go into the bed room. Within the two minutes in the bedroom, I heard an altercation outside and ...
COOPER: What did you hear?
BRADY: Just some heavy struggle you know, like a strong voice, like a strong voice. I'm not sure, you know, what words are exchanged exactly, but it's just a strong voice.
COOPER: So what did you do then?
BRADY: (inaudible), when I heard the altercation, I looks out the window and I see somebody at Ferguson police window, some kind of tussle going on here.
COOPER: So you saw somebody at the window of the police car?
BRADY: Yes.
COOPER: Police officer was still in the vehicle.
BRADY: Yeah, inside the vehicle. So like I say there's some kind of tussle going on. He also had a friend also. He runs on the side of the car, because all of a sudden, they just takes off running. After the tussle?
COOPER: Right.
BRADY: They just takes off running.
COOPER: Did you know Mike Brown?
BRADY: No, no.
COOPER: OK.
BRADY: I see him, you know, around or whatever. So ...
COOPER: But it was Mike Brown at that vehicle?
BRADY: Yes.
COOPER: And you said there was a tussle, how long did it go on for that you saw it?
BRADY: Seconds, seconds, 10 seconds I should say.
COOPER: Did you see -- when the tussle was ??, did you see was one person being pulled in or pulled out or ...
BRADY: Oh, no. He was just exactly at the window. It made it look look like he was trying to get away.
COOPER: You couldn't tell exactly what was going on.
BRADY: Yeah, but, you know, I just seen some kind of tussle going on through the window. So -- but, like I say he has a friend also, and he's standing like in the front of the police cruiser, on the bumper side, on the passenger side but like five feet away from it though.
And like I say, all of the sudden they just take off running. Mr. Brown, he just runs directly down the middle of the street and his friend is -- there was a car that was parked on the sidewalk, the Ferguson cop, his vehicle was in the middle of the street, diagonal.
So like I said, they take off running.
COOPER: Had there been a shot when there was still that tussle with the police.
BRADY: I'm not -- I didn't hear the shot, I didn't hear the shot. Quite a few people that were around say they heard a shot go off in the car. Maybe they ...
COOPER: But the important thing is what you heard. You did not hear it?
BRADY: Right, right, right. So I definitely didn't hear that. So like I say his friend takes off running and like I said, the parked car was on the sidewalk and, you know, like I say he is far like five feet away from a police cruiser in the middle of the street. So like I said they just takes off running and I see the officer, he gets out of the car, emerge and just immediately start shooting. So (inaudible).
COOPER: You say he immediately starts shooting. You're saying -- he didn't say anything, he didn't ...
BRADY: Like I say, I didn't hear because everything -- I'm still in the window.
COOPER: OK.
BRADY: I'm still in the window. So when he gets out of the car, I see the first shot, as Mr. Brown like I say he directly in the middle of the street running with his back turned, running away. And he's probably -- was about 20 feet down and his other fiend, he's around the car, the trunk side of it. So I see him, you know, looking up at the (inaudible) just to see where he's at. But when he gets out of the car, he (inaudible) like one or two shots. But at that time, he has already passed his own police vehicle and Mr. Brown's friend where he run into, as he was in his gun's, shooting range, you know, position, he walked past the vehicle to where his friend ran to.
So I think that the officer knew where his friend is but I'm saying that he's showing me that he wasn't shooting at this friend.
COOPER: Did you see? You said there were one or two shots, you think. BRADY: Yes. The very first one, the first person when he gives out.
COOPER: Did you see if Mike Brown was hit by any of those shots?
BRADY: No, I don't think he -- maybe it was at the time because like I said he was 20, 25 feet down. So obviously he was still running.
COOPER: Right. Because we don't know -- the autopsy said that there were at least six shots that hit Mike Brown but we don't know how many shots may have been fired if there were other shots that were fired, if other bullet casings have been collected. We don't know.
BRADY: Right.
COOPER: So you said, you heard one or two.
BRADY: Yeah. I definitely saying one or two but like I say he still have his back turned and I notice that he passed his friend up, so where his friend ran too. So that's when I decide I'm going to run outside with my phone and see what I could get. So I run as fast, so quick. About the time I get outside, he's already turned around, facing the officer. He's balled up. He had his arms like under his stomach. And he was like half way down like he was going down and officer lets out by three or four shots at him. Michael-Ridgway ( talk) 18:39, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
Certainly I think there is sufficient sourcing to suggest that there was at least one shot fired while running away. My question was about the count - I read your comment (again the one I can't find) as saying there were 6ish shots fired while running away. With so many witnesses speaking on that point, unless one assumes mass collaboration/coaching, it seems likely. however, per my math above, trying to find a good place where a back shot occurred is difficult. One plausible possibility (although certainly pure WP:OR/conjecture on my part) is that the first volley occurred at the end of Brown's "run", and as he was (already?) turning so that he could be struck from the front from (some of) those shots, while others perceive shots towards the back. However, short of some unknown video recording of the actual shooting, we are very unlikely ever to know for sure. Of course, if in the end it comes out that there was an 3rd unrecorded volley prior to the 10 shots we have on audio, then that changes the calculus considerably, but so far people are only mentioning the 1 early shot. I'm sure someone (police, jury etc) have the count of casings on the ground, or at least the number of rounds Wilson's gun can hold (rumors suggest 12+1, but conceivably could be as high as 17+1 (or if its a 9mm instead of a .40 as previously heard 33+1!)), and how many were left in the gun after (no rumors as to this as far as I am aware). Gaijin42 ( talk) 19:36, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
I have no idea who this guy is, and if he is notable or reliable in any way, but he put together a theory that aligns with some of what we discussed above, including both an unrecorded 3rd salvo, and "shot while turning". He also has other tweets where he comments on the distance between the SUV and the body, which I also find interesting, but his "100 foot away while shot" theory misses the crucial bit of info that we don't know where Wilson was standing. https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/512268512359120898 Gaijin42 ( talk) 18:10, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status/504355965601599489 the hole seems huge to me, but its also after the police allegedly dug it out. Gaijin42 ( talk) 19:04, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Comfort food. ‑‑ Mandruss ( talk) 08:18, 29 September 2014 (UTC) |
Comfort drink. ‑‑ Mandruss ( talk) 08:18, 29 September 2014 (UTC) |
There is only one correct sweet to eat with beer, and it is chocolate. Repent. Centrify (f / k / a FCAYS) (talk) (contribs) 12:58, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you use talk pages for inappropriate discussions, as you did at Talk:Shooting of Michael Brown. This is not what article talk pages are supposed to be used for, as you have been warned many times before. - Mr X 20:51, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
Nothing like the name Mr. X to drive home how everyone on Wikipedia hides their identity while threatening blocks and bans without giving any specifics as to what is so inappropriate -- as is has been the case so many times before. No one warns such people that they will be banned for inappropriately threatening people. They, of course, are special. I am not special, as has been drilled into my head many, many times by so many, many people who engage in the same kinds of discussions that I do WP:DOUBLESTANDARD but who are never seriously challenged for so doing.
Dear. Mr. X. What specifically was inappropriate? I would be more than happy to remove any such inappropriate passages from the information that I have provided today. I am not emotionally attached to any of it. It was provided in hopes of improving the article so that it can greater and more accurate use to our readers while being very to the live and dead persons that we discuss therein.
Almost no one has responded to any of it except to agree that my idea that we mention the make of the vehicle. So forgive me for deeming your comments to be coming from way out of left field. Like I say. Tell me what's egregious and I'll remove it. Michael-Ridgway ( talk) 23:28, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
Dear. Mr. X. What specifically was inappropriate?If not for the knee-jerk adrenaline-spike attack-response defensive reaction, you might have noticed that MrX helpfully provided a link to the diff showing a specific edit. I say this as someone who has spent a lifetime trying to learn to control knee-jerk adrenaline-spike attack-response defensive reactions. ‑‑ Mandruss ( t) 21:52, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
Hello, Michael-Ridgway. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
Hello, Michael-Ridgway. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
Hi Michael-Ridgway! The thread you created at the
Wikipedia:Teahouse,
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Stop posting and/or commenting on BLP violating content and gossip from unreliable sources. Do you really want to get blocked as WP:NOTHERE? -- Valjean ( talk)
{{
unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}
.
Orange Mike |
Talk
16:01, 25 October 2020 (UTC)This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have shown interest in post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
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This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have shown interest in articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor. — Newslinger talk 02:15, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
The article Carson Jorgensen (politician) has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, this biography of a living person will be deleted after seven days unless it has at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.
If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{ prod blp/dated}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within seven days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 04:49, 2 May 2021 (UTC)