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section F9 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the image appears to be a blatant
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Wikipedia's policies and guidelines.
Eeekster (
talk)
01:30, 24 October 2013 (UTC)reply
File permission problem with File:Action-Refraction cover.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Action-Refraction cover.jpg. I noticed that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the file has agreed to release it under the given license.
If you are the copyright holder for this media entirely yourself but have previously published it elsewhere (especially online), please either
make a note permitting reuse under the
CC-BY-SA or another acceptable free license (see
this list) at the site of the original publication; or
Send an email from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en@wikimedia.org, stating your ownership of the material and your intention to publish it under a free license. You can find a sample permission letter
here. If you take this step, add {{OTRS pending}} to the file description page to prevent premature deletion.
If you did not create it entirely yourself, please ask the person who created the file to take one of the two steps listed above, or if the owner of the file has already given their permission to you via email, please forward that email to permissions-en@wikimedia.org.
If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have provided evidence that their copyright owners have agreed to license their works under the tags you supplied, too. You can find a list of files you have created in
your upload log. Files lacking evidence of permission may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on
criteria for speedy deletion. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's
image use policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the
Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
Sfan00 IMG (
talk)
21:19, 26 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Thanks for pointing this out. I uploaded the file incorrectly. I took down the first image and uploaded it again using the "fair use" designation.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by
visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with
Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, you can place a request
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RubyMurray15:57, 17 March 2014 (UTC)reply
Red circle - album articles
You asked "I'm trying to add individual album pages for everything British jazz label Whirlwind Recordings has released. Is that not allowed?" Probably not: Wikipedia is not a "list of everything", but is actually quite selective about article subjects. The main inclusion criterion is
WP:Notability, which is not a matter of opinion but has to be
demonstrated by showing "significant coverage in
reliable sources that are
independent of the subject." The test is, have people not connected with the subject thought it significant enough to write substantial comment about? For albums, see also
WP:NALBUMS.
That article was tagged under speedy deletion criterion
WP:CSD#A9. The artist has no article, and there was nothing in what you wrote to make this different from a million other albums. Moreover, it has not even been released yet - see the "unreleased material" section of
WP:NALBUMS. One reason for that is that Wikipedia is extremely resistant to being used for any kind of promotion; another is that until the album has been released and gathered critical comment, there are unlikely to be the independent sources necessary for an article.
An album article is much more likely to be accepted if the performer has an article. So you would be well advised to start by making an article for the artist, assuming that he meets the notability standard for musical performers, which is at
WP:MUSICBIO.
You will probably tell me that you have seen other album articles which consist only of a track listing. The answer to that is at
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS: out of 4,400,000 articles, a regrettable number are substandard, but that is not a reason for allowing more.
A useful way to avoid premature deletion of an article is to click on
Help:Userspace draft and fill in the title. That will make a draft page in your
user space where you can work on an article, and ensure that it is complete and adequately referenced before moving it to the main encyclopedia.
Oh, and when you respond this way to folks in the future, you might consider removing "You will probably tell me..." That turns a friendly, informative response into something that sounds a bit condescending. Just my $.02.
Jasondcrane (
talk)
16:42, 17 March 2014 (UTC)reply
Point taken. How would you phrase it? Perhaps "You may well have seen other album articles... "?
Two tips - it's usual on talk pages to indent successive comments by adding colon : characters, as I have done here; and you don't need to reply both here and on my talk page. When someone has replied on your talk page, it will generally be on their
WP:Watchlist so that, for a couple of days at least, they will know if you have replied there.
JohnCD (
talk)
17:01, 17 March 2014 (UTC)reply
I think your new phrasing is great. And thanks for the tips, John.
JohnCD - are you aware that Jasondcrane is being paid to write these articles on behalf of Whirlwind Records? "Want one for YOUR business? Contact me RT @WhirlwindRecord: Thanks to @JasonDCrane for the lovely new WWR Wiki page! "
[1]— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
86.132.32.23 (
talk)
21:22, 18 March 2014 (UTC)reply
Dear Anonymous: Paid editing does not contravene current Wikipedia regulations. If the proposed rule about disclosure passes, then of course I'll follow whatever new rules are in place. Thanks!
Jasondcrane (
talk)
21:57, 18 March 2014 (UTC)reply
This user came to my attention when she/he began editing the
Whirlwind Recordings page I created. More information about this person's concerns are on the
Whirlwind talk page. According to this person's IP address, this critic is based in London. It could just be a coincidence that the anonymous person complaining about the Whirlwind page is based in the same city as the record label and follows one or both of us on Twitter, but that seems unlikely. Is it possible to know the identity of this user so we can know whether her/his criticisms are based on dispassionate concern for Wikipedia or on a personal issue with the label in question? Wikipedia's own
Conflict Of Interest policy contains this line: "Wikipedia's policy against harassment takes precedence over the COI guideline."
This person's edits have led to a conflict of interest discussion about my paid editing. It's worth pointing out some additional facts about the genesis of this conversation.
JohnCD began to investigate my contributions after this anonymous user quoted tweets on my
personal talk page from my account and the WWR account. The
only other updates from this IP address are on the entry for "nut" in 2007. This makes this look even more like harassment rather than concern for the integrity of Wikipedia. Integrity that is not in any way being degraded by my contributions.
Jasondcrane (
talk)
14:05, 19 March 2014 (UTC)reply
Paid editing
As you are doing it so openly, I am willing to believe that you did not understand how this would be regarded, but undisclosed paid editing of Wikipedia is very strongly discouraged, and may actually be illegal as "covert advertising" under US and European law - see
WP:COVERT.
The largest firm in the paid-editing business has been issued with a cease-and-desist order by lawyers for the Wikimedia Foundation, and an
amendment to the Terms of Use is planned to make this even clearer.
Hi again, John. I'm perfectly happy to disclose my status as a paid editor. I read the suggested documents you linked to, and other than not disclosing being paid, I'm careful to adhere to all the rules about sourcing, promotional language, etc. So much show that I've strenuously argued with clients about language they wished to have included. Not to mention these are worthwhile members of the jazz community who deserve to be on Wikipedia and are making art worthy of inclusion. They don't have the skills or time to do what I'm doing, and it feels completely fine to me to be improving Wikipedia this way.
Jasondcrane (
talk)
23:18, 18 March 2014 (UTC)reply
WP:COI: If either of the following applies to you: 1. you are receiving monetary or other benefits or considerations to edit Wikipedia as a representative of an organization (whether directly as an employee or contractor of that organization, or indirectly as an employee or contractor of a firm hired by that organization for public relations purposes)... then you are very strongly discouraged from directly editing Wikipedia in areas where those external relationships could reasonably be said to undermine your ability to remain neutral.
WP:PSCOI: The
COI guideline advises: "If you have a financial connection to a topic (as an employee, owner or other stakeholder), you are advised to refrain from editing articles directly, and to provide full disclosure of the connection." There is significant skepticism about the ability of paid contractors to work in alignment with Wikipedia's goals, and this kind of engagement often results in community and media backlash... If you have an ethical or professional responsibility to edit Wikipedia to advance your client's or employer's interests, then you stand in a conflict of interest and should not edit affected articles directly, with or without disclosure.
(copied from
WP:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard#Jasondcrane) I've spent the past 20 years as an advocate for, and participant in, the jazz world. For the past seven years I've hosted
The Jazz Session, a free podcast with more than 400 episodes and 2.5 million downloads. You can learn more about the show and my history here.
Yes, I've taken money to create these entries, but I also have an expert-level knowledge of this subject and a deep understanding of which labels and which artists are notable in the jazz world. The people commenting on these entries may also have that level of knowledge, and I'd very much like to know that. But this is such a niche music that the average Wikipedia editor can't be expected to bring an extensive knowledge of jazz to the table. That's not a criticism, just a reality.
I'm completely willing to disclose the paid nature of my contributions. I'm making Wikipedia a better place, and writing dispassionately and with extensive sourcing about music most people don't know much about. I think people like me, who have these skills, should be able to use them. And if someone who doesn't have the time or skills wants to hire me to do that, I think that's completely fine. If anything I've written is deemed questionable, then I'll happily hear the criticism, accept it where merited, and defend my writing when appropriate.
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your
edit summary or on
the article's talk page.
Lee Konitz is one of the most celebrated saxophonists of the 20th and now 21st centuries. If the album's future release date is a dealbreaker, then fine, but there is absolutely no question (even on Wikipedia itself) of Konitz's notability.
Jasondcrane (
talk)
01:03, 19 March 2014 (UTC)reply
Inappropriate edits
Please do not continue to remove a COI template that has relevance, nor add inappropriate text to an article, as you did here
[2]. Thank you,
JNW (
talk)
13:23, 21 March 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi Jasondcrane, for discussions we use article and user talk pages, not articles themselves. This challenge at a user's talk page was also not cricket
[3]; they were correct to revert your edit to the article.
JNW (
talk)
13:35, 21 March 2014 (UTC)reply
As far as I can tell, talk pages aren't used to resolve issues or have honest discussions, they're used to profess an ideology about Wikipedia. I've been extensively using the talk page to discuss this article and can get no straight answers at all about the content of the page. The only actual objection anyone seems to have is that I was paid to make it. The people objecting think this should be disclosed. So I disclosed it. And now you say that's not OK either. Wikipedia's rules are: (1) No paid editing without disclosure. (2) No disclosure. Therefore there appears to be no way to have the COI notice removed and no way to meet Wiki's non-content-based standards.
Also, there is an anonymous editor based in the same place as the label making edits and attacking me. I'm using my name to refute these attacks. But it's my behavior that's criticized, and not one person has looked into the credibility of this editor.
I want to get this issue resolved. Absolutely no one has actually dealt with the content or with my explanation of my contribution. Is there some way to finally, once and for all, have people read the actual article (preferably someone with knowledge of the music), read the talk page, and actually give answers? This is exasperating and makes Wikipedia look more like a closed priesthood than an open information source. Thanks for any help you can provide.
Jasondcrane (
talk)
13:42, 21 March 2014 (UTC)reply
The likelihood of a no-win situation increases when an editor accepts payment to write about subjects on Wikipedia. That is, it's exceedingly difficult to maintain
WP:NPOV when adding content on behalf of a subject, who in essence is apt to try to maintain editorial oversight of their article, through the paid writer. And we writers do like to get paid for our efforts. Your disclosure was important; however, with or without it, the edits will be observed for neutrality and intent. That doesn't suggest a closed priesthood so much as the desire to remove content that appears promotional. And I think the concerns have been well fleshed out at the article talk page
[4], as well as at the COI noticeboard.
JNW (
talk)
13:53, 21 March 2014 (UTC)reply
Thanks so much for your fast and forthright answer. I think you're 100% right about the need to maintain neutrality. And I think I've done that. And what I can't seem to do is get anyone to address the content of the article. How does the COI disclosure ever get removed if nobody talks about the content? Moreover, how can someone talk about the content if they don't know about the music? And how can anyone ever know whether an editor knows about the music if they don't provide credentials? These are the issues that are making me so frustrated. Thanks!
Jasondcrane (
talk)
13:58, 21 March 2014 (UTC)reply
A few thoughts: if several experienced editors discern COI issues, they're probably valid. There's no way that In its brief existence, WWR has already been heralded "the label of the moment"[2] by BBC Radio 3 as well as "the most exciting new jazz label based in the UK"[3] by the Financial Times passes as neutral, nor are long and inadequately sourced lists of non notable artists and recordings acceptable--these raise red flags. Sometimes revisions are made quickly, but it can take time to unravel the content and remove the templates. Knowledge of the subject is helpful, but not required. I have entered into COI territory on many occasions, but my edits don't stick unless they're adequately sourced and are neutral in tone (I've also never accepted compensation for writing here, and never polished or fluffed something up at a friend's request, only sought better sources to support content). I suspect that your frustration is compounded by the implications of COI and compensation, which is natural. But even if that's not the basis for your displeasure, it's necessary to stay cool and not chase after the IPs just because they tick you off; doing such things will shorten your stay here. I'm going to the trouble here because you know your subject well, and can make real contributions. But those contributions must keep in mind the encyclopedia's larger framework, rather than the desires of those for whom you freelance.
JNW (
talk)
14:14, 21 March 2014 (UTC)reply
It's so refreshing to be having a rational discussion with someone who's reading what I'm writing. I already feel better.
I understand about the text you quoted and I agree, now that I see it through someone else's eyes. To my mind, as a longtime journalist, those things weren't promotion because they came from third-party sources. But I do see the difference between that and neutrality.
Regarding the IPs, it seems like Wikipedia is easy for anonymous people to abuse with no penalty and no real system for tracking down such abuse. But there again, I could lack sufficient knowledge to understand the systems that are in place. It's clear that bringing up the abuse isn't the method, because no one seems to take notice of that. So I need to do more research there.
Finally, the article now complies with everyone's wishes. How does the COI notice get removed?
I'm going to remove the names of artists whose notability hasn't yet been established per
WP:NOTABILITY, and remove the COI template. I imagine several editors are watching the article now. As for IPs, they generally display the same positive and negative characteristics as registered editors; I used IPs for a time out of concern for protecting my anonymity. The disruptive ones are indeed subject to sanctions, and long-term abusive IPs, especially those working from schools, are sometimes blocked for years. In short, be more concerned with your own contributions than the backgrounds of other users.
JNW (
talk)
14:31, 21 March 2014 (UTC)reply
My very sincere thanks for your help. You did in several minutes what no one else did in several days.
Two more questions:
(1) Re: "be more concerned with your own contributions than the backgrounds of other users" -- that's nice in principal, but it was the initial comment of an anonymous user, with whom I have no way to interact, and whom no one else ever addressed, that started this entire process.
(2) I still believe that it's not a conflict to write here for money, and I intend to keep doing it and disclosing my identity and my paid status. Wikipedia is better for the content I've created and I think it's 100% fair to be paid for that. (I do free editing, too, of course.) Given that I can't use disclosure statements, what's the best way to proceed?
Jasondcrane (
talk)
14:39, 21 March 2014 (UTC)reply
WP:COI has plenty of detail on how to proceed. If you only want to follow WP:COI loosely, then learn quickly and well the policies highlighted in WP:COI:
WP:NPOV and
WP:NOT; and be prepared to discuss your edits at length on article talk pages.
I'd make the disclosure on applicable article talk pages. I haven't gone back through your other articles, but if similar COI issues are evident in those, then this would indicate a broader area of concern. Writing articles for pay here nearly always engenders a conflict of interest--it takes very nimble footing and clear intent. Probably you've already been directed to this policy, which elaborates on the issue
[5]. If you disagree with the guidelines, then its discussion page is the proper venue, rather than using various articles to make an alternative case.
JNW (
talk)
14:52, 21 March 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited
Capri Records (Jazz record label), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page
United State (
check to confirm |
fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the
FAQ • Join us at the
DPL WikiProject.
Please seek feedback on new articles before pushing them out.
Hi Jasondcrane,
I appreciate your honesty about your COI! I wanted to stop by though and ask that until you learn what is acceptable on WP that you please seek out help from other editors before creating new articles. You can write them up in your sandbox and request comments on
WP:REWARD or
WP:ASSIST. Currently the articles you have recently created contain many links to commercial online stores and long lists of non-notable items. This creates significant work for editors to clean up. Please note: I am no admin, and this is just a suggestion. But you have created several controversial new articles recently, and would suggest you ask for help before creating another. Thank you.
Beakermeep(
talk)18:29, 25 March 2014 (UTC)reply
Thanks for uploading File:Whirlwindrecordingslogo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a
claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see
our policy for non-free media).
Thanks for uploading File:Redcirclepurcellcover.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a
claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see
our policy for non-free media).
Thanks for uploading File:Whirlwindrecordingsnewlogo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a
claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see
our policy for non-free media).