I noticed your recent edit and I wanted to point you to Talk:Jesus/Christian_views_in_intro, in case you haven't had a chance to read it. That said, we're likely to open discussion on "Christian views" this coming week (unfortunatly we've been bogged down in a debate over the historicity of the nonexistence hypothesis...sigh...) Arch O. La 01:45, 20 February 2006 (UTC) PS: I've also organized current discussion into this section. Arch O. La 01:47, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Well, am I aware that there are different theories of truth vs fact and all that, but it takes an expert to point out A.J. Ayer. ;) The reference to historical revisionism is similar to earlier references to dogma. Rob has shown that he holds his convictions too deeply to be amenable to such arguments. Quite frankly, he perceives himself to be repressed, and thus pushes his own POV ever more forcefully. My own rhetorical gambit was a little more subtle: grant him his definitions of "truth" and "opinion," (similar to Ayer's--again thanks!) then show them to be irrelevant. Arch O. La 20:04, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
PS: His worldview scores show him to be 100% materialistic and 0% idealistic. So he draws a very strict distinction between the physical evidence (largely Christian and Jewish texts) and historian's perception and judgement based on the evidence--then dismisses the whole thing because he has already rejected religion. It's a logical fallacy, but I don't think he sees it. (I hope Rob reads the A. J. Ayer article). Arch O. La 20:14, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm trying to fix the format of the paragraph above, but I did read your note. I actually agree with you, but in the past few days I've been trying to play devil's advocate to help avoid another out-and-out Wikifight. That said, I think if we're going to reach Rob it will take more social psychology than straight rhetoric. Arch O. La 20:18, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
The comparison to other historical persons has been tried and has failed (I brought up Socrates). Nice try, though: A. J. Ayer was a much better reference than Sherlock Holmes! Arch O. La 20:39, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
OK, I will not clobber you. I'm actually starting to withdraw a little from the debate, although I will continue to follow it ;) Arch O. La 00:04, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the compliment! But, as I told CTSWynekan, sometimes the trouble with striving for the center is that you get caught in the middle. I'm not withdrawing to the degree that Avery Krause did; just enough to clear my head and strengthen my impartiality. ;) Arch O. La 00:12, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Anybody who calls "Illinois" flatland has never been to Kansas! When you went through Illinois, did you ever stop at St. John's Lutheran Church in Sand Prarie Township (LCMS)? My family attended there until my grandfather (an ALC minister) had a stroke, and we moved to Iowa to be near him. Arch O. La 00:24, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Dear David: I know your furious with Rob Steadman, but I think your old page was better. It told folk who you are. Bob -- CTSWyneken 13:37, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Just a reminder: do not respond to Rob at all if he repeats old arguments or gets abusive. If he changes a consensus paragraph, revert it. Keep track of your reverts and only do it twice. If we can do this, nothing will come of it except frustration for Rob. -- CTSWyneken 20:16, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I am not seeing your proposal on Talk. Could you help me find it? — Aiden 23:07, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Quorum call. Come and vote. -- CTSWyneken 00:53, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
You refer to yourself as a scholar. Could youn point the WP community in the direction of some of your publications please? Robsteadman 10:30, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
As this is a current discussion I've brought it out from its premature archiving - you do seem very keen to hide things away qyuickly...
You refer to yourself as a scholar. Could youn point the WP community in the direction of some of your publications please? Robsteadman 10:30, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Frankly, I think this whole debate over contemporaneity is mixing tomatos into fruit salad, to torture an aphorism from SOPHIA's user page. It only adds to the tension on both sides. Either you believe, or you don't. Without the Holy Spirit, all you can rely on is historicity, and some doubt even that. That said, Avery Krause has called the umpteenth final vote on Talk:Jesus.
As an aside, I've got quite a poker game going on my user page! Arch O. La 05:13, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Come and vote. -- CTSWyneken 11:25, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Hey there. Just wanted to ask you to move your comment under the vote table in the comments section. I just don't want it to get cluttered again and if we start out on the wrong foot, we'll end up on it as well. After all, I did ask for people to not comment directly on the table. Thanks! -- Avery W. Krouse 05:04, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
...that you're busily hiding all new discussions away in an archive rather than keeping them up for a while so that people might respond, get answers from you, etc. Rather bad form. Or do you fear that something will be put here that will make you look silly?
So, you have 2 masters' degrees - and still claim to be a scholar in 4 subjects. Could you explain further. Masters' Degrees don't really say "scholar" to me - do you have, perhaps, a Ph.D? You say you have no publication and nothing peer-reviewed.... what is YOUR definition of scholar? Robsteadman 14:22, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
1) I am not a Dude - how pathetic. 2) It is not my lord - please don't try to pass on your "faith". 3) I must remember what a great scholar you are - unpublished, un-peer reviewed and only at Masters' level... I'm sure the great minds of academia are quaking in their boots. 4) Ooo, you've got a new user box - oh joy! You must be very happy. Little things eh?! 5) Why are they self-glorifying? they are a way to let people know where you come from and what you are interested in. If they're so self-glorifying why have you bothered with any?! Robsteadman 14:47, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Would both of you stop engaging in this insult fest. It is not becoming of either of you. --
CTSWyneken
15:02, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Not meaning to insult either you or Rob, but how much sturm und drang must we endure? Also, which circle of hell is reserved for eternal ineffectual voting? Arch O. La 19:52, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I said Bilbo, not Gandalf! One book at a time! Arch O. La 00:43, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Everyone loves Bilbo, the recent finder of the ring! They are disappointed by the taking of the lime light by Frodo, right? in the trilogy? Since I am ordained I could be Gandalf the white. drboisclair 00:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
I'll give it a look, but to be honest, I'm not sure how "pure" a Lutheran I am. I'm a weird Lutheran who debates philosophy with Athiests, listens to Jehovah's Witnesses, recently graduated from a Quaker college, and affirms the Catholic position on religion and science. Not to mention that I've started to read the words of Rabbis. How's that for ecumenicalism? ;) On the other hand, I am a genetic Lutheran, so as I told SOPHIA, the Force runs strong in my family. I may have to talk to my uncle (an ordained minister) before I have anything meaningful to say. Cheers, Arch O. La 21:00, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Just to let you know, I have extended my Star Wars allegory. Arch O. La 22:59, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
I know, I know. It's enough for me that the Christian positions are presented fairly and accurately. As Homestarmy has said, that may bring some to Christ. Beyond that, it's all politics. Of course, God and Satan both play politics. Witness Job. Arch O. La 21:10, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
All I can say is that there is one or more editors that question the neutrality of the articles. My recommendation would be to try and narrow down exactly what the neutrality dispute is about on the talk page. I did see that the one editor thinks that concensus is not the way to determine if a dispute over neutrality is to remain on an article as a tag. This is incorrect as an argument for unless we have some sort of concensus we don't have a direction. I understand what he/she is saying, but that doesn't qualify it as enough of a reason to slap neutrality tags on articles. If the discussion pages are achieving nothing, you can try and attract further outside views by filing a Request for comment, or seek mediation to resolve disputes. I may post a short question in both articles which hopefully will help pinpoint what the major arguments are.-- MONGO 21:36, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Isn't that the capital of Afghanistan? Forgive my pronunciation, I'm just making jokes. But if Christians can split over such silly issues as wet hair, then how can we form a cabal? As for myself, I've tried (not always successfully) to exhibit love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness gentleness and self-control in all their fruity taste combinations. Taste the rainbow! Arch O. La 18:37, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
You are hereby invited by the Grand Poobah Avery W. Krouse to announce your membership in the Wikipedia Christian Cabal! Please add your name to the members list. If userboxes are your thing, you may add {{User:Averykrouse/Christian Cabal Box}} to your userpage to declare your allegiance! The Grand Poobah salutes you! -- Grand Poobah Avery W. Krouse
Counteroffer: {{User:Archola/NoCabal}}. It looks like this:
Arch O. La | TCF member 06:44, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I was asked to help Christianity with it's discussions on becoming NPOV... there is a debate on Talk:Hermeticism#Reason_for_reverting_Infinitysnake's_changes_2/22/06 on whether it should be stated that some scholars believed Hermes Trismegistus to be a real man. In my arguments I have noted the Christianity article, and I feel that the contributors of it may be able to give some view on how a religion article should be NPOV. I don't know if you will agree with me or not, but your help is requested.
69.153.171.62 16:18, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks...I added links to the Crusades & the Inquisition, which Gio & his friends wanted to see...that's fair, I think. Most importantly, there already existed links to other articles for further reading. Let's hope we've seen the last of the warnings there (I'm not holding my breath!). Hope you have a holy Lent... KHM03 16:27, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Dear Dave: You appear to have figured out how to make such things. (if not, I'll bother Stan!) I need one that says something like: Real life intruding on wikilife. "I'm not on a wikibreak, but it sure may look like it this week." ;-) -- CTSWyneken 19:36, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Added stuff? I only added a see-also to this and related articles. Your article already looks well-written to me ;) Arch O. La Talk TCF 06:31, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
There are a lot of red links here... have fun! -- CTSWyneken 21:14, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, I forgot a letter in the link. To be honest though, they talk around the question of local presence. Basically they affirm that Christ is really present, and that different theologians have described this in ways that are complementary rather than contradictary. I also added the second link, which is an e-mail form. Arch O. La Talk TCF 00:03, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Actually, Eucharistic discipline#Lutheran practice needs to be written.. Arch O. La Talk TCF 11:08, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
talk: Timeline of unfulfilled Christian Prophecy-- CTSWyneken 02:19, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
I suspect that it's a matter of how the term is being used.
I was confirmed in the ELCA, in fact if not in name. I'm not sure at what point they officially adopted the ELCA name, but the three sects were pretty much merged by that time. My confirming pastor (Rev. Theodore Gulhaggen) used the term "consubstantiation" to mean that Christ's body and blood were present through, with, and under the substance of the bread and wine. How this happens, we were told, was not revealed by God, and was thus a divine mystery beyond human understanding. My pastor's use of the term "consubstantiation" did not imply local presence; he didn't even mention local presence, but it seems to me that this is unknown and unknowable. I wasn't even aware of the philosophical implications until I discovered them on Wikipedia. It seems to me that Lutherans who accept the term "consubstantiation," as I did until fairly recently, use the term in the same way that my pastor did.
It seems to me that the whole debate on whether the Real Presence is substance or spirit (pneumatic) or both or something else, or whether it is local or nonlocal or impanation or some of the above or something else, or whatever else it might be, is also a divine mystery. Any philosophical speculation beyond divine revelation is just guessing.
As you know, I searched the ELCA's website in vain for any reference, for or against, to local presence. The best I could find is their full communion agreement with the Reformed churches, in which they said that both were describing the Lord's Supper in the same way, but using different words. Since the Reformed church teaches pneumatic presence, this implies that the ELCA accepts that Christ's body and blood are spiritually present. However, this is merely implication; I don't know for sure. If need be, I could ask my uncle, who is an ELCA minister. Grigory Deepdelver of Brockenboring Talk TCF 15:42, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
PS: I just noticed that this anon editor (192.160.64.49) is apparently the same one who's been having a long conversation with CTSWyneken on the latter's talk page. Grigory Deepdelver of Brockenboring Talk TCF 16:59, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
All I know of William of Occam is that he had a razor. His definition of consubstantiation is apparently not the same as the definition that some Lutherans use. To be honest, I find all this talk about local vs nonlocal vs pneumatic vs impanation vs whatever else to be confusing. My catechism class didn't get into that; my pastor merely discussed why we reject the Catholic transubstantiation doctine, and also the symbolism doctrine of some other Protestants. Better, I think, just to take and eat, and also take and drink. Grigory Deepdelver of Brockenboring Talk TCF 17:44, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
The trouble, Arch, is that you have to be clear on what it is, because the Bible is clear about what it is, and it is simple: of the bread in His hand Jesus said, "This is my body" and of the wine in the cup He said, "This is my blood." Like your pastor said, "It is a mystery." The point on consubstantiation is that we don't want to explain the mystery away as the word "consubstantiation" does. drboisclair 18:20, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
The "explanations" are confusing. Anything beyond the Gospel accounts and 1 Corninthians 11 are confusing and confusion. It is bread and wine; it is also the body and blood of Christ. Wikipedia quotes The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church quotes Martin Luther comparing it to red-hot iron: both fire and iron, both unchanged. We are commanded to take and eat and drink and to do both in remembrence of Christ. I don't know how anyone could "explain" the mystery. I don't see anything in the Bible about form or substance or spirit or locality. It just is what it is, beyond explanation. Unless I'm missing something? Grigory Deepdelver of Brockenboring Talk TCF 19:50, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, you can't get away from locality. Where is the Lord's Supper going on? There is the Church. The sacramental bread and wine is the body and blood of Christ as He says. This is not explaining it: it is accepting the words as they stand. You have to deny that it is MERELY spiritual. Yes, Christ is there spiritually, but His body and blood is also present in, with, and under the forms of the consecrated bread and wine in such a way as they can be eaten and drunk. While there are many mysteries to God and His ways: "Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! 'For who has known the mind of the LORD? Or who has become His counselor? Or who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him?' For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen" (Rom. 11:33-36 NKJV); there is still what He reveals, and we are to hear and share that as long as it does not become speculation that goes beyond. It would be nice if we could just have it as simply as possible, but when errors spring up, the Church has to speak out clearly with the "pattern of sound words": the words of our Lord Jesus Christ. The springing up of ideas that contradict God's Word makes further elaboration essential if the Church is to remain faithful to its witness. This is how I answer as a theologian. I agree with Luther too that we must stick to the plain words alone, but the need to make Christ's message plain to the world necessitates further clarification. drboisclair 22:41, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
Indeed I am wary of "speculation that goes beyond." Hence confusion and confusing. Clarification is another matter. Grigory Deepdelver of Brockenboring Talk TCF 23:06, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I am the anon. user. If you don't believe that the LCMS teaches consubstantiation, go to their website, lcms.org . There is a FAQ section, also, docs on Lutheran Doctrine and Practice by the committee we call "CTCR"
If you don't believe the WELS teaches consubstantiation, go to wels.net, and read their highly extensive Q&A section.
If you still don't believe me, there is a layman's theology book called, "The Fire and the Staff" written by an LCMS pastor, Klement Preus, and published by CPH, Concordia Publishing House, which clearly says in plain English that Lutherans believe that they eat Jesus's physical Body and Blood. Theolgical books puplished by CPH are checked beforehand for bad doctrine. If that wasn't what the LCMS teaches, I don't think it would be published, or if it was, it would have been revoked later, as has happened to the latest translation of the Book of Concord. The term spiritual is used in the FOC and some other docs to describe the nature how this happens. That is, holy communion allows us to eat the physical body and blood of Jesus because of a spiritual miricle--not that the Body and Blood are merely spiritual and not physical in nature. If you look at the , WELS seminary library site where they have an exensive quantity of scholarly articles, you will find one that expresses concern over the fact that some in the ELCA want to change the definition of "Real Presence" to deny the physical consumption of Jesus--even pretending the early Lutherans agreed with them. Many in the ELCA, esp. former ALC and Augastana members, dislike the theological experementation that is occuring by those in authority. Just because the liberal higherarchy of the ELCA says it doesn't mean it is what most Lutherans---even most Lutherans in the ELCA believe. The ELCA is very doctrinally diverse, so it is nearly impossible to say what the ELCA believes on doctrinal matters, because instead of "X, Y, and Z," it is "X, Y, or Z, and also ZX and YZ and YX." The vast majority of people in the ELCA say, for example, that Jesus is God, but some of their profs, such as the ELCA members of the Jesus Seminary, disagree. Therefore the ELCA both believes Jesus is God and denies that he is God. Whatever confessions of faith they have are irrelevant if people that disagree with them are still welcomed into fellowship with them.
The plain words of Scripture says body and blood. They are presented in the normal, physical way. To say that they mean spiritual rather than physical consumption of Jesus's body and blood for the Lord's Supper is to go beyond Scripture. The miricle is spiritual, but the presence is physical. Since when is real bread never physical??? John 6 is spiritual consumption of Jesus's spiritual body and blood through His Word, the Lord's Supper is physical consumption of His body and blood through a miricle that our reason doesn't like.
If you still don't believe me, call up and LCMS, WELS, or ELS pastor on the phone and ask them if they believe that the physical Body and Blood of Jesus is consumed "under" physical bread and wine during a valid sacrament. They will say yes.-- 192.160.64.49 19:26, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Although some Lutherans have used the term "consbstantiation" and it might possibly be understood correctly (e.g., the bread & wine, body & blood coexist with each other in the Lord's Supper), most Lutherans reject the term because of the false connotation it contains. For instance, the word "consubstantial" is used by thelogians to desginate that God the Father and God the Son are one in essence or being. Applied to the Lord's Supper, consubstantiation is the view either that the body and blood, bread and wine come together to form one substance in the Lord’s Supper or that the body and blood are present in a natural manner like the bread and the wine. Lutherans believe that the bread and the wine are present in a natural manner in the Lord’s Supper and Christ’s true body and blood are present in an illocal, supernatural manner.
Grigory and CTS, I thank you for your eternal vigilance, but I must at least tell that anonymous user that CTS and myself are LCMS pastors! Call me up, and I will tell you that we do not believe, teach, and confess that consubstantiation is what we believe about the Lord's Supper. I think it is the same person by the lack of care in spelling correctly. drboisclair 21:54, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
This is a quotation from J.T. Mueller's Christian Dogmatics in which he quotes a 17th Century orthodox Lutheran theologian: Against the misconstructions which the Reformed have put on the Lutheran doctrine of the sacramental union our dogmaticians have said (Hafenreffer): “The sacramental union is a) not a transubstantiation of the bread into the body of Christ; b) it is not a consubstantiation, or commixture of the two substances, but in both the bread and the wine the substance of the body and blood of Christ remains unmixed; c) nor is it a local or durable adhesion or conjunction to the bread and wine apart from the use of the Supper; d) nor is it an impanation, that is, the inclusion of some small corpuscle lying hid under the bread; e) nor is it, finally, a personal union of the bread and body of Christ, such as exists between the Son of God and the assumed humanity.” (Doctr. Theol., p. 571.) (p. 519-20). and The Lutherans very strenuously reject the charge that the real presence implies a local inclusion, or an impanation, or consubstantiation (localis inclusio, impanatio, cosubstantiatio). The Formula of Concord thus says (Thor. Decl., VII, 64): “For this command ‘Eat and drink’] cannot be understood otherwise than of oral eating and drinking; however, not in a gross, carnal, Capernaitic, but in a supernatural, incomprehensible way.” (p. 528).
The Sacramental Union article should be changed to reject "consubstantiation" if it means a mixture of substances or a cannibalistic understanding. This is from Franz Pieper:
The same principle of a solely local and visible mode of presence results in a polemic against the Lutheran doctrine of the Lord’s Supper on the part of the Reformed which is untruthful through and through. Because the Reformed, the moment they hear of a true presence of Christ’s body and blood in the Sacrament, always visualize only their visible and local presence, “as the peasant fills out jacket and breeches,” they ascribe to us Lutherans a local inclusion (localis inclusio, Hodge, Syst. Theol., I, 83) of the body of Christ in the bread, or a local consubstantiation (consubstantiatio), or even a physical compounding (permixtio) of bread and body of Christ. Because of the same bias they apply to us Lutherans the titles “carnivorous beasts,” “blood guzzlers,” and “cannibals,” and call the Supper instituted by Christ, with the real presence of the body and blood of Christ which is given and shed for us, a “Cyclopean meal” and a “Thyestean banquet.” All this is the result of their adoption of the thesis that Christ’s body can have only a visible and local mode of presence as their principle of Scripture interpretation. Pieper, F. 1999, c1950, c1951, c1953. Christian Dogmatics (electronic ed.). Concordia Publishing House: St. Louis (vol. 3, pp. 326-27). drboisclair 23:02, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
It is important to explain the distinction. The impression I get is that the term "consubstantiation" is broad enough to cover the Lutheran view, but also broad enough to cover the one suubstance and Capernaitic and Lollardy and other views that Lutherans reject. Hence one LCMS pastor's description as "the best definition but not the most accurate definition." This vagueness is the reason why some Lutherans accept the term, while many other Lutherans reject the term.
The distinction should also be made clearer at the consubstantiation article. Grigory Deepdelver of Brockenboring Talk TCF 23:13, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the considerations of my concerns here. Thanks for explaining that consubstantiation could mean false positions that we reject, such as impanation. I was never taught that it could mean these false views. However, since the term is taught and understood by some in a different manner, attention much be made to those differences. Naturally, I don't think there is a piece of flesh inside the wafer! Franz Pieper clearly rejects that umbiblical notion, because the Bible says "body" not "a piece of my body." Of course the Body and Blood cannot be sensed or detected by reason and science. Of course the Real Presence gets there in a way nobody can comprehend-spiritually. But since the bread and the wine are physically eaten, the Body and Blood of Christ are also physically there. And no, by phyiscally, I don't mean a hunk of flesh--which is what "local inclusion" teaches. If you want an example of someone using the term consubstantiation in the lcms, try This congregational website. The reason the term physically is used is because Lutherans recieve Jesus in a physical manner in the sacrament. If Jesus is recieved in a physical manner, he is there in a physical manner. The term "spiritually" can be misunderstood as the Reformed opinion, in which communion, in Calvin's view, takes place as the soul ascends to heaven to feed on Christ's Divine Nature in heaven. Besides the denial of Jesus' word "is," this also means that Jesus can be seperated into a seperate "Divine Nature" and "Human Nature." You can't get one nature without the second nature being there with it. We must avoid the heresy of Nestorianism that Calvin seems to teach.-- 192.160.64.49 02:03, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
See http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~fviegas/papers/history_flow.pdf -- StanZegel (talk) 14:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
You really speak Ancient Greek at native level? Amazing!
I know ancient Greek, but the category of native level is the only one that will register. If the other levels would register, then I would use them. BTW, please sign your posts. Cordially,
drboisclair
12:41, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Nice job on the article, thanks! Dominick (TALK) 17:11, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
What time is it? drboisclair 14:06, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
-- drboisclair 14:31, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Glad to see you're back after being retired for a few hours. I hope everything is OK. Grigory Deepdelver of Brockenboring Talk TCF 21:40, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Thank you, Drb. I appreciate it, and look forward to a constructive relationship. Cheers, SlimVirgin (talk) 22:11, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
As you're reverting a lot, it might be prudent for you to review the 3RR rule, in case you violate it. Please note that it refers to any revert of another editor's work, not necessarily the same material each time, and that it applies to whole reverts and partial reverts, which can be as little as one word. The policy page can be found at WP:3RR. Many thanks, SlimVirgin (talk) 23:50, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Dear David, I really appreciate your vote and your kind words in my RFA. It has passed with an unexpected 114/2/2 and I feel honored by this show of confidence in me. Cheers! ← Humus sapiens ну? 03:12, 26 April 2006 (UTC) |
Please read this section of the WP:3RR rule:
The three-revert rule is not an entitlement, but an "electric fence"; the 3RR is intended to stop edit wars. It does not grant users an inalienable right to three reverts every 24 hours or endorse reverts as an editing technique. Persistent reversion remains strongly discouraged and is unlikely to constitute working properly with others. The fact that users may be blocked for excessive reverting does not imply that they will be blocked. Equally, reverting fewer than four times may result in a block depending on context.
-- Jayjg (talk) 03:33, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for voting for me at my RFA. I am thankful for your kind words and confidence in me. Even though it failed, constructive criticism was received. In the next few months, I intend to work on expanding my involvement in other namespaces and try a few different subjects than in the past. - CTSWyneken Talk |
Thanks to both you and CTSWyneken for inviting me over. I'm having my own problems at the Jesus article (really the troubles started at Christianity), so I can't get involved in another dispute at the moment. Besides, I'm sure they'll just say I'm the fourth member of the Lutheran cabal ;) (I don't even know Stan Zegel...)
I have, however, invited Jim62sch to take a look at the pages. He's a former Lutheran (LCA) and current Agnostic, so I'm sure he can see both sides. Take care and try to not to get your dander up—I've seen that backfire for too many people from various POVs. Grigory Deepdelver Talk 22:15, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
On contentious articles and in contentious times, it particularly behooves editors of good will to avoid personal attacks, or even the semblance of personal attacks. For example, That is because you do deal in truth, half-truth that is; you're calling someone a liar, a prevaricator. That doesn't help dialogue; admittedly, the target of your quip is a difficult editor; all the more reason to maintain civility -- how else are onlookers going to know the difference betwen you and he? Similarly, I'm going to play innocent and pretend I don't know what you mean when you refer to "the she-wolf of France" and "H M the Queen"; suffice it to say that though this doesn't, in isolation, rise to the level of a personal attack, it's obviously deliberate, albeit subtle, incivility.
The harder the fight is, the nicer you should be. It simply doesn't work the other way, at least in any on-line venue. The cost of harsh words is taken in credibility. -- jpgordon ∇∆∇∆ 23:32, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
There's a short article about this fellow, it could use some work, but I don't think I'm qualified to fix it. Sumergocognito 08:41, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Greetings,
If you have time, please check out the Justification (theology) article. I have begun to massage the text currently in the Lutheran section, and thus the language is less than ideal. I am looking for a good strong Pieper quote to place in the article, and perhaps a rewrite of it entirely. Any help would be appreciated! -- Rekleov 14:25, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Can you explain this edit please? I would carefully read Wikipedia:Sock puppetry if I were you. I would also suggest reverting that edit, as a sign of goodwill. Jayjg (talk) 16:48, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Please fix this before it has to become more public. Jayjg (talk) 18:29, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
The Working Man's Barnstar | ||
I award drboisclair this Working Man's Barnstar, for tireless documentation on Martin Luther and Lutheran-related pages. CTSWyneken 21:06, 28 May 2006 (UTC) |
The Original Barnstar | ||
I award User:Drboisclair the original barnstar for his great edits, revisions, and general work on the Martin Luther pages. I also award you this barnstar for your great amount of civility. Good work, and good luck! Thetruthbelow 21:43, 14 June 2006 (UTC) |
The Tireless Contributor Barnstar | ||
Awarded for persistently and consistently good contributions Ptmccain 17:17, 17 June 2006 (UTC) |