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Want some help? Maintenance is much easier for me while I'm at school than content creation. If you help me learn to clerk SPI I'll be able to help.
RyanVesey00:32, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Dennis, in the absence of a formal mechanism that I know of, I hereby dub you "A clerk". You can take Ryan as a padawan if you want. :-) —
Coren(talk)00:48, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Well, DoRD is still active and Berean's trainer so I think that this particular decision is his to take. :-) That said, he might simply not have thought about it yet. —
Coren(talk)01:04, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
I'm still trying to fix some things in Real Life that are consuming an inordinate amount of my time. I've been out of work for a year now, this does tend to mess up priorities. —
Coren(talk)01:09, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Turns out that, between the last time I check fun-l this morning and my knighting you this evening, there was a discussion started about promotions – so I ended up jumping the gun and overriding everyone else by fiat. :-) I hope you'll forgive me if I say that you shouldn't consider my promoting you as valid until the discussion takes its course. I didn't even know consensus was being build; I was just clearly thinking along the same lines as everybody else alone in my room while the real discussion was taking place elsewhere. :-) —
Coren(talk)03:16, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
The "real" discussion is ongoing on the functionary mailing list between the checkusers. It really is just my fault: we obviously all perceived the need for new clerks, but I didn't notice the talk starting yesterday afternoon before I decided being bold. :-) —
Coren(talk)14:20, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Dennis - I was wanting to revert this clear vandal edit - its a BLP -
diif - I don't think reverting of vandal alterations such as this would be a violation of
my agreed conditions - thoughts?
Youreallycan02:44, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Hello again Dennis, Sorry to trouble you again, but could I ask you to look at the above named page. User
Tdp1001 seems intent on causing a edit war with contributions which are unreferenced and appear to be POV. I would be grateful for your advice on whether you consider the page should be protected. With best regards, as ever, David.
David J Johnson (
talk)
15:54, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
noindex - User has reverted my noindexing of his evidence page - I have explained on his talkpage - If he doesn't replace the noindex at his earliest convenience please assist in explaining the situation to him - thanks -
Youreallycan20:24, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Cool gruel - lol - learning is a tough process - so it seems - (no link though...) - pages moved to process are automatically NOINDEX-ed but pages in userspace are not and need NOINDEX-ing to stop them appearing in google results -
Youreallycan22:00, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
You could unblock the master, right? To my knowledge, socks are indeffed, never to be unblocked, masters are blocked and treated as any other blocked editor.
RyanVesey21:00, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
There seem to be a few misunderstandings here. Let me clear them up.
In terms of how one uses the checkuser tool, there's no substantial difference between checking two accounts for a relation to each other and checking a single account for sleepers.
Checking for sleepers creates no difference in how long it takes to carry out the check; it might take much more time or may take much less time, depending on the nature of the technical evidence. If anything, checking for sleepers is easier and less time consuming, not harder.
Regarding "in depth checks", the only way a check could not be in depth is if the checkuser on the case decided simply not to look at half of the data returned by the check, in which case he should almost certainly not be a checkuser. This is especially true since the tool can often tell you that some of the data does not need to be examined.
You're welcome. The amount of time it takes to check for sleepers does vary on a case by case basis. Perhaps they were referring to that case specifically. --
(ʞɿɐʇ) ɐuɐʞsǝp21:26, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Indeed. These misunderstandings didn't actually affect the way you preform your duties as a clerk, so it's not really a problem in my opinion. Still, I couldn't keep my mouth shut. :-) --
(ʞɿɐʇ) ɐuɐʞsǝp21:33, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
(
←) A likely scenario where a check for sleepers might take longer is if socks are found over a relatively wide dynamic range that is also shared by other, unrelated users. In that case, separating the wheat from the chaff might take considerably longer (especially if the range is busy) than if the socks were found in a relatively narrow range or pretty much by themselves – in which case the sleepers stick out like sore thumbs and are easy to see. The point is, the actual actions to be done are pretty much the same in either case; it's mostly just why we're doing them that changes (for instance, we normally wouldn't checkuser on a very transparent duck unless there were reasons to believe that there might be more socks sleeping). —
Coren(talk)21:35, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Hackneyhond edited from 212.183.128.72 for instance, which is a Vodafone IP
[2]. So the magic ball indicates that Nole (as Fancy Smith) now uses that as his mobile provider. I don't know what grannies use wherever Spar Strangled lives...
Tijfo098 (
talk)
Hello, Dennis Brown. Please check your email; you've got mail! Message added 16:34, 21 October 2012 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.
Hi. Thanks for the response. I have been expecting this day since this user appeared in WP:FAC and said those things. You guys were also worried but about something else that I don't remember. Best regards,
Codename Lisa (
talk)
I can tell a lot of thought went into your perspective and I respect your opinion, but this isn't the first time I've seen the idea of replacing RfA with a selection committee. I've started
WikiProject Editor Retention, tried to get the policy
Request for Admin Sanctions moving forward, and do a great many admin reviews, in addition to participating in most RfAs. I'm of the belief that as we grow, we need to shift more power away from the top, and empower non-admins as well. The plan you are supporting would do the exact opposite, by concentrating more power in fewer people. When I said I would hand in my admin bit and retire Wikipedia if that type of policy was enacted, I wasn't being melodramatic. And I wouldn't be alone. Too much power at the top always leads to corruption.
Top down management doesn't work very well in a volunteer organization. Redundancy and handling everything at the lowest possible level does work, which is why many organization shun top down methods. They can be inefficient and bad for morale, as people at the lowest level are less emotionally invested in the success of the organization, due to being disconnected from all administrative decision making.
You assert that electing representatives to select and manage admins will "shift power to the top." Accountable representatives are neither above nor below the community as a whole, they're of the community. In relation to the admins, "above" is a fair descriptor, but in relation to the rest of the community, they're one with.
This will result in a more representative selection process, not less. Presently admins are selected by whoever turns up at RfA, and as far as I can see, most !voters are doing so on flimsy criteria. I rarely !vote because I rarely know enough about the candidate to make a valuable judgment; and that is the case with many others here. If I and they were to put in the time to form a deep and nuanced understanding of each candidate before voting, we'd be wasting an enormous amount of valuable time.
I want the right to democratically nominate a proxy, someone I trust to speak for me in this selection process. That is, I want a say in who becomes an admin, but I don't want to have to put in 5, 10, or 20 hours doing the background research necessary to do that well, and neither should all the other editors here. Do you really think the self-selected cluster of editors who turn up at RfA are doing a good job; do you think they represent my values; do you think they truly represent the community as a whole? --
Anthonyhcole (
talk)
03:59, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
You may be changing my mind. I'll keep you informed. I've a bit on my mind at the moment.
While I think about that, can I just say we've got a real problem at Wikipedia with the general quality of argument. I'm no expert rhetorician but I've read a little about it and ours is crap. One major element of this is the tolerance for ad hominem on article talk pages. I'd appreciate your thoughts on
this if you have the time. It's possibly the wrong venue. --
Anthonyhcole (
talk)
14:54, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
I'm proposing a change in practice. That is, presently, it is not permitted to remove ad hominem on article talk pages. I would like it to be mandatory. Ad hominem is a universally-recognised logical fallacy; it is inappropriate on article talk pages. --
Anthonyhcole (
talk)
16:49, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
I don't think it has to wait for an uninvolved editor: ad hominem is very easy to identify: it addresses the motives or competency of the interlocutor. That's about as easy to recognise as a secondary source. Recognising ad hominem is uncontroversial and if we explicitly disallow it on article talk pages, eliminating it will be as simple as pointing at the policy or guideline that disallows it. --
Anthonyhcole (
talk)
17:54, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Blood in the wiki-water tonight
And the sharks are circling. If you're online tonight, please keep a tight watch on
WP:ANI -- you'll see what I mean if you look at the last couple posts. I'm going real life tonight.
Nobody Ent22:28, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
If you weren't so important to keeping ANI less horrible, I'd tell you to unwatch it. Maybe if you left, the vitriol would rise to a level where it ceases all functioning. Soon enough people would learn to solve their problems without begging for a ban or a block.
RyanVesey22:40, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Heh, none of us makes that much difference, but, collectively, we may have some soothing influence. At the moment, I'm just waiting to see if my close of the latest ANI discussion holds. I probably won't be around tonight, though. All I can do is hope that people will stop piling it on.--
Bbb23 (
talk)
22:48, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
I'm no fan of Malleus but there's no arguing that he's a first class content editor and perhaps one of the best and most prolific we have. That makes him very much a Wikipedian, and Jclemens comment was beyond the pale. Bit late now, but it might have set a precedent to have taken him to AN/I ! With Arb elections coming up, perhaps it's not only time to get some reforms to RfA, but Arbcom needs a big shake up too.
Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (
talk)
23:53, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
(
edit conflict) I understand, but at the same time Jclemens's statement has become an unfortunate rallying point, tending to heat things up more than cool things off.--
Bbb23 (
talk)
00:00, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
I have no idea what is happening, but it beats the hell out of real life right now. Jclemens seems to be the subject of at least two major notice boards. WTF?--
Amadscientist (
talk)
03:54, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Agree with Rschen7754. I'm impressed by what you've had to say. I go around sputtering and you've articulated it all quite succinctly. Well done.
Truthkeeper (
talk)
11:26, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
[12] I'm fine with the redaction, as long as it's done by an uninvolved person. Just to make this very clear though: I understand that my question may be read as an attack of sorts. But it was a completely sincere question.
This is the tone of a rightwinger who is listening to too much rightwing talk radio. Obviously MONGO does not like that observation, because it's accurate. He couldn't say that he doesn't occasionally sound like Glenn Beck, and I was trying to give him the feedback that he does, and that it doesn't help his case one bit. Not an "attack", just an honest question and some honest feedback -- pointedly formulated, yes, but at least it's no libelous lie of the sort MONGO likes to tell. Anyway, just wanted to get that off my chest. --
195.14.220.127 (
talk)
12:58, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
You sure were uninvolved enough, and I accept that reducing drama at AN/I is necessary. No argument from me on either of those points. --
195.14.220.127 (
talk)
14:23, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
NPP
I have been going through and patrolling some of the unpatrolled user talk pages and I was wondering if there is a specific reason that the earliest pages listed there are only a month old? Are pages automatically patrolled after a month?
AutomaticStrikeout21:22, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
I came across this article indirectly through CSD. A nightmare. I removed entire sections from it that made me cringe to look at them, and then I stopped before I slashed the article any further. If you're feeling masochistic - or, better still, if one of your page stalkers is an expert in Islam - take a look.--
Bbb23 (
talk)
01:19, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
I no longer see an email tab when I look at your page. I have something sensitive I would like to discuss with you. I am not sure if it is a matter of settings or what, but I have email enabled so could you drop me a line?
Gtwfan52 (
talk)
03:13, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
That's odd, I can see Mr. Brown's email tab. Perhaps refresh the screen, or close the browser and reload? --JethroB03:39, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
That didn't work, but I found a link somewhere that got me to the email a user screen.
Hello, Dennis Brown. Please check your email; you've got mail! It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.
Which of these climate charts look better?
This one or
this one? I perfer the former as it is less tacky, has more information and is easier to read. The latter is the standard one to use. What do you think? -
Neutralhomer •
Talk •
17:50, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
Nah, I have asked
User:Drmies,
User:Gerda Arendt and
User:RexxS so far, but want to get a wide variety of opinions before I go nuts and start editing away. So far it's 1 for compact and colors, 2 for large and intuitive and 1 on the fence. I am thinking of a way to somehow create one that is both large and intuitive, but has the colors...kind of a "best-of-both-worlds" kinda deal. -
Neutralhomer •
Talk •
18:15, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
This is true, but I am different. :) I go against the norm and against the grain. Things like the
Ottawa version are cool to me and different from everything else, but then again so am I. :) I figure people will say "don't rock the boat" and keep things as they are, which is cool. I can accept that, I just like being different. :) -
Neutralhomer •
Talk •
19:42, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
I think everyone would agree with you that consistency is a good thing and why fix what ain't broken. I will put it up for a !vote once I get all the bugs worked out on WP:MOS, but I have a feeling it won't come out on top. :) Thanks for your opinion (you too Go Phightins!). -
Neutralhomer •
Talk •
19:55, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
It appears to me you have overwhelming support. I'm sure you're more well-versed in the ins and outs of Wiki-policy than I. What is the correct process to attempt to remove an arb who refuses the requests of the people to recuse?
Joefromrandb (
talk)
12:50, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
If you concern is about Jclemens, NewYorkBrad, Calisper, SirFozzie, David Fuchs, Elen of the Roads, Xeno or PhilKnight, I think they are up for election in November and the best way to handle it is to vote, as no proceeding would likely be done in time to make a difference. I heard that SirFozzie isn't running again, I have no idea who of those is running and who isn't outside of him. Being an Arb is a thankless job and I'm quite sure it is a pain in the ass, so I try to cut a little slack, but I am frustrated at the choices that a few of them have made recently. In spite of what others may think, Malleus is rather incidental to my frustration and my concern is with the consistency and equity with the system as a whole. It is about the greater principle at work more than this individual case. Outside of elections, I am not sure what the removal process is, although I'm not ready to sign on to removing anyone just yet.
My comment "It appears I have little support" was referring only to the lack of interested parties on that one Arb's page. As to the level of support elsewhere on Wikipedia, I feel very fortunate that many editors have been quite generous in their overall support, as well as very forgiving for my shortcomings. The solution I suggested on that one Arb's page has been taken so far out of context as to dilute my original intent, which was to reduce some drama, not add politics, but seems moot at this point. I don't blame anyone as it is a heated affair with widely varying opinions. Like other heated debates, sometimes a message gets lost in a sea of pitchforks and torches. What affects me most is that many of the people I respect the most have either retired or become inactive due to this debacle. That list includes people I consider mentors and compatriots.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Libel as a synonym for slander
Hey man, I understand there is a good bit of admin politics going on right now, so I hopefully won't take up much of your time. I was just wondering, if a user expresses an opinion in a talk page that one sentence in an article is false and libel, would that user likely become banned as making a legal threat?
Seems to me, saying something is 'libel' is much the same as saying something is slanderous and it's not a big deal.
(
talk page stalker) Context is going to be the determing factor. Compare "this is false and I'm concerned it may be libelous" to "this is false and libelous and you must remove it now or face further action". Got an example in mind?
GaramondLethe14:07, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
I'm not touching on the NLT aspect as others have already done so. However, although I am unsure how it works in the US, here in the UK libel and slander have one principle difference in law: the former is written and the latter is spoken. Either can be defamation of character etc. -
Sitush (
talk)
14:31, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Dennis. I just wanted to let you know I reverted your revert to
GoalRef. The content you reverted was actually a significant improvement over the original content in terms of both formatting and informational value, and was most definitely not a vandal edit.
Besieged (
talk)
15:08, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Gotcha! I was confused that such an experienced admin would have made that revert, but it makes sense that you were viewing it through a different lens based on data I was not seeing; I do think the content as provided, even by a potential sock, is a huge improvement over the prior content, regardless of source, but no worries, that's why we employ so many eyes, and thanks much for your efforts!
Besieged (
talk)
16:54, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
I was wondering if you could look at
Political positions of Tom Smith were an editor trying to describe Smith's Position on Rape says that "he believes abortion should be banned with no exceptions, including for victims of rape" which seems to me politcally charged language meant to be unfairly biased against his position with the neutral way I tried to include was "he believes abortion should be banned with no exceptions, including cases of rape". As I would not say Mitt Romney is against abortion except for rape victims I would say except for cases of rape. Also If you could check out the talkpage for Tom Smith for that sections other problems it would be great
John D. Rockerduck (
talk)
21:36, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Hello, Dennis Brown. Please check your email; you've got mail! Message added 21:38, 23 October 2012 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.
Hello, Dennis Brown. Please check your email; you've got mail! Message added 10:00, 24 October 2012 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.
Hey, Dennis. Mind giving me your take on this, especially since you deal with double (or multiple/various) accounts all the time? After
reverting Rogr101, I decided to look into his contribution history because I figured that, with the nonexistent user page/talk page, he was likely new. And sure enough, the account is newly registered -- registered on the 14th of this month. But when I looked into his contribution history, I noticed a striking similarity between his article interests and edit summary style and that of Ewawer's. On the 14th, Rogr101 made the following edit summary expressions: "(Ce)," "Expand intro," "Tidy up bit," and "More tidy up." These are all expressions that Ewawer uses often. While other editors use these expressions, it is usually sparingly with regard to the last three; I have come across none that use them as often as Ewawer, especially "Tidy up." And although Ewawer doesn't always capitalize his edit summaries, he sometimes does, such as
here. There are some users' editing habits that I know so well that I'd recognize them almost instantly and I believe this to be the case with Rogr101, and I commented as much on his user talk page. So where do I go with this from here? It doesn't seem that this needs reporting since the Ewawer account, thus far, has not been editing since the 16th and since this may have been a
WP:Fresh start attempt (albeit the wrong way to do it). We can wait for a reply, but Ewawer usually doesn't reply on his user talk page or discuss matters at/take matters to an article talk page.
Flyer22 (
talk)
10:26, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
You mean article overlap? Like I stated, they have that. And per my analysis above, I'm certain that both editors are the same person. Then again, I have been familiar with this editor since 2007. But I don't see anything that indicates that he needs to be blocked. It's just that even though he's been around since 2007, he's unfamiliar with most of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If he participated in talk page discussions more often, he wouldn't be. But there is also the option of just reading up on those things oneself, which I don't believe he's done for the most part.
Flyer22 (
talk)
15:51, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Yes, again looking at the articles Rogr101 has edited and analyzing the contribution histories of those articles, I see how it can be stated that there isn't yet much of an overlap; that's the only thing that adds doubt in my head that they are the same person, because Rogr101 is editing topics that are in Ewawer's range of article interests and has used edit summary style that is signature of Ewawer's editing. I certainly don't want Ewawer blocked. I was conflicted about what to do on this matter, but didn't even seriously consider starting a sockpuppet investigation because of what I stated above. Although Ewawer's formatting is often "off," Wikipedia-formatting wise, and he often adds unsourced material, his editing is generally beneficial to Wikipedia. I was waiting until Rogr101 responds to decide whether or not to add a Welcome template to Rogr101's talk page.
Flyer22 (
talk)
16:33, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, Dennis. I don't want Ewawer blocked, though, as mentioned. Not unless he inappropriately continues to use both accounts, if he is operating both accounts that is. But whether Rogr101 is Ewawer or not, I think it's safe to state that he isn't new to editing Wikipedia. He might have been a different registered user or editing as only an IP before now, but editors who are truly new to Wikipedia don't use "Ce" (which is of course short for "copyedit") in their edit summaries when they edit Wikipedia...unless they learn it; it's something you learn from others while editing here.
Flyer22 (
talk)
22:22, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Well... Just like I expected (and as noted, it is characteristic of Ewawer), Rogr101 didn't reply. He continued editing after the message, and a few hours after he stopped, Ewawer finally continued editing; I saw this when it was happening, but am just now commenting here about it. Obviously, Rogr101 not responding to my query on his talk page reinforces my suspicion that these two are the same person. But there's not enough evidence for others to go on, and at least, if they are the same person, he's not using both accounts to get his way at an article. Not yet at least. I'll leave you or someone else to add a Welcome template on Rogr101's talk page.
Flyer22 (
talk)
18:05, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Nah. I meant it that I don't want the guy blocked (unless he resorts to using both accounts to get his way at an article), and, as we've agreed, there just isn't enough evidence.
Flyer22 (
talk)
18:13, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
One more thing: Before this discussion is archived, I wanted to note here that they are both currently editing film-related articles. So if there is ever a sockpuppet case brought up against Ewawer in the future, that could be presented as evidence. Other than that, I don't have much more to state on this topic at this time.
Flyer22 (
talk)
15:34, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
dogs ...
Laughed my ass off at the "Has anyone seen my paw". I'm sure it's an old one, but it caught me at just the right time I suppose. — Ched :
? 03:07, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Can you userfy this article for me please, I am quite sure this fellow passes the notability guidlines such as WP:AUTHOR and GNG. I asked Boing, but he is on strike currently.
Darkness Shines (
talk)
11:39, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Dennis, I'd like to ask for another set of permissions, as you suggested in your RfA review for me. Even though pending changes isn't enabled, I think I'd be a competent reviewer. You seem to have given me a good lookover for that review, but if you'd like to know any more before giving me such a permission, I'd be happy to oblige. Thanks,
BDD (
talk)
18:10, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Hello Dennis! Happy to see and talk to you after many weeks. I just recently came back after a short Wikibreak of about a month. I have started a quite simple SPI report
Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/DeeJermo and have given the required information and evidence there. I believe it would be quite easy for any SPI clerk like you to have a review over it and endorse/approve it so that Investigation completes soon, and we all get the results soon ;) Regards.
TheGeneralUser (
talk)
19:36, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the compliment. I believe you are right Dennis, it can be freely closed as the actual
WP:SOCK policy is not being violated. Thanks again for your review.
TheGeneralUser (
talk)
20:16, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
This is very tedious.
User:Turco85 is deleting entire sections which have journal article citations. Can you please take a look? I'm writing to you cause I think you are the admin who were looking into this page.
Cavann (
talk)
21:23, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
I'm assuming this user may be another sockpuppet, judging by their contributions. It's a repeat of past edits on the
Turkish people article. I refuse to be dragged into edit wars.
Turco85 (
Talk)
21:43, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
It's been going on for years now, the history of the article shows all. Plus see
Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Ledenierhomme. Personally, I've had enough and don't care anymore. Sorry to be so negative on your talk page but it's just annoying when some of us work so hard and then this keeps happening.
Turco85 (
Talk)
22:04, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Besides my edits as Cavann89, I had never edited Turkish page before. Feel free to proceed with any investigation though.
Cavann (
talk)
22:09, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Sally Season
For some reason you've decided to stay out of
this, likely because you're smarter than I am. Atm I am engaged in an edit war on
User:Sally Season and it could use some level heading admining from you; I would consider it a personal favor if you'd be willing to mediate. I'm done with it now, better things to do and what not. Thanks if you can offer any help.
Sædontalk01:17, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Galt is a "character" (which may be a prerequisite to become a User) but, to date, no one has assummed his moniker. User:Eubank must have read, and enjoyed, the novel. ```
Buster Seven Talk17:03, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
(
edit conflict) Uh, just because the user page is a redlink doesn't mean the account isn't registered. It has a talk page and even contribs (dating back to 2005, but still).
Writ Keeper⚇♔19:50, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
@Dennis. Your comment, I feel like I'm the only sane person here, which is the first sign of insanity I have been told', brings to mind special arrangements that have been made to provide for your well being pursuant to your inevitable mental health issues. A special safe room has been prepared by The Foundation. It is just down the hall, third door on the left side. A
palm print scanner will only allow access by yourself and neccesary Foundation personnel (The folks you see with the white lab coats and the golden shoulder epillettes. The folks without the epillettes are Security). Your use of the room is completely self-determined and, once you enter, assistance will be provided within 24 hours (They are a bit short-staffed). Just make yourself comfortable in the middle of the room. The padding and the lack of furniture are for your protection. Someone will be with you shortly. Have a nice day! ```
Buster Seven Talk14:15, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
.
Talk:Highland Park High School (Highland Park, Illinois)
Dennis, could you please take a look at the above (edits this month, from
here down for SPI and a revdel on the subsection Rudman? Thanks in advance. There be games afield!
Gtwfan52 (
talk)
00:59, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
And now a new IP is adding more defamation. see last section. Not as severe, but at a loss. Can I just delete this obvious nonsense? Silly season applies to more than just the election. Just realized the time back east, so I am just gonna ignore til tomorrow. sorry to bother you so late.
Gtwfan52 (
talk)
03:53, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
As I have pointed out to GTW, during the protection period, I will be verifying the current information for this HS and for Whitney Young, another Chicgoland HS article with potential vandal presense. I'm not sure if WYHS is protected. ```
Buster Seven Talk21:20, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, Dennis...I reverted all the garbage from the Notable list in that article several days ago, and as of yet, none of it has re-appeared. The only problem I had is the absolute stupidity in the comments at the userpage. Sorry, I know...AGF. The only good faith I can offer is that the editor, and I still think it is just one or a connected group, legitimately feels that these people belong and do not understand the concept of notability, and are apparently ready to lie, fabricate or whatever else it takes to get their people on a list.
Gtwfan52 (
talk)
23:53, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
By a
vote of 9-1, the Arbitration Committee has passed the following motion:
Remedy 4 ("Malleus Fatuorum topic banned") of
Civility Enforcement is vacated, and replaced with the following:
Malleus is topic banned from making edits concerning the RFA process anywhere on the English Wikipedia. As an exception, he may ask questions of the candidates and express his own view on a candidate in a specific RFA (in the support, oppose, or neutral sections), but may not engage in any threaded discussions relating to RFA. An uninvolved admin may remove any comments in violation of this remedy, and may enforce it with blocks if necessary.
Appears not, from the look of it, which is somewhat unfortunate, but... I dunno. At least it's clearer than what it was. -—
Isarra༆20:33, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
This may not be the right venue, but what the heck. First, I'll agree the wording isn't ideal. We may yet (shudder) be facing a clarification request. Back on point, I read it a bit more narrowly. The ban relates to the RFA process, in the first sentence. It is broadened slightly in the second, whether deliberately or accidentally, I can't be sure, but the second eliminates the possibility of too narrow an interpretation of the first. For example, an edit in an RFA stating that so and so is a terrible editor is arguably not an edit about the process. The second sentence covers that possibility. However, if someone asks a question on MF's talk page about a GAN, and MF responds that the main editor does seem to understand English, that should not, IMO, be a violation. If he follows it up by saying, not only doesn't the editor know English, but he shouldn't be an admin, then that crosses the line.--
SPhilbrick(Talk)21:54, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Hello Sir,I recently got rollback rights after some good work related to vandalism and apart from that i want to get reviewer rights too then what to do and where to improve myself so i will able to grab reviewer rights in future.Thanx!
---zeeyanketutalk to me21:36, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Until the final outcome of Pending Changes is known, it appears that admins have apparently (and probably wisely) self-imposed a moratorium on granting Reviewer rights. There are already over 5,000 editors with this right so there is no urgency.
Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (
talk)
02:44, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
Any news?
I was wondering if there was any news with regard to
WP:Conservatism. There is little left to say there, and I’m rather concerned that the discussion will go nowhere, as it has in the past. Do you know anything of interest?
RGloucester (
talk)
22:06, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Dennis, there's only so many ways I can say this - and I seem to have said it several times now. If you want to get Arbcom involved in this, you will have to bring a case. The Committee can't say whether or not it would take a case unless someone lays the evidence out on all sides, and it can evaluate the situation. None of us is going to go look at the project talkpage and say "yes, bring a case". So either bring a case or don't. It is up to you, not up to the Committee. --
Elen of the Roads (
talk)
22:30, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Other than ArbCom, the best option seems to me to be, maybe, to propose a retitling or merger of the project with WikiProject Politics, and maybe filing an RfC on the proposal, saying basically, as per RGloucester above, that the basic preliminary discussion seems to have ended, and time has come to make a decision. If, as some projects, including Conservatism, have done in the past, and the Conservatism project talk page is redirected to the WikiProject Politics talk page, I think most of the problems might be at least basically addressed. Maybe.
John Carter (
talk)
23:13, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
I think if you still feel you've got a community option left to try, it's probably worth trying it. This Wikiproject hasn't been all over DRN/AN/ANI/Jimbo's talkpage, so it doesn't have the feel to me of a major conduct issue (at least not yet). If you want to bring an RfAR, you really need to show that there are some serious conduct issues in there. --
Elen of the Roads (
talk)
23:37, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I'll take that back, they were at one point. But it really is your move - do you see a community process working, or some alternative tactic, or is RfAR the only resort.
Elen of the Roads (
talk)
00:30, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
What we had on the talk page was essentially an RfC. There is no reason to go through the process of starting a formal version. Retitling and merging are a waste of time. These have been tried before (I proposed a retitling discussion about a year ago), and they will not work. The project “hierarchy” will not accept such moves from the community. They’ve resisted multiple good-faith ideas, proposals, &c., and still have not really even accepted that there is a problem. I personally think that ArbCom is the best route at this point, and really the only option that hasn’t been exhausted. Writing a request shouldn’t be that hard, and I’d be certainly willing to help out in the event that that was decided. Either way, action must be taken, soon. I don’t think it is appropriate to let this drift into the past yet again.
RGloucester (
talk)
00:52, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
Dennis is away over the weekend so I hope you'll not mind me answering here. The page has now been full protected by another admin. It does seem as if 76.232.253.147 has more experience than their 24
WP:SPA contribs would have accumulated, but without further evidence I would hesitate to make a case of sockpuppetry.
Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (
talk)
00:51, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
OK, my thanks to you! the IP and I will discuss things on the article's talk until the full protection is lifted. S/he seems amenable enough. Thanks again!
ColaXtra (
talk)
00:56, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
In my view you generally get things right, but your comments at ANI and the arbcom request case are surprising. You say, we don't know enough to evaluate. Well, two members of the oversight team saw the material; one suppressed it, the other agreed (posting on ANI) that that was the right decision. The fact that we can't see the material shows that there was a problem; it shouldn't be used to argue that there isn't a problem. (Now, on top of that, I saw it before it was oversighted -- even if one doesn't agree that it was outing, there was an aggressive, taunting quality to it that amounts to a blatant violation of the civility restriction.)
Nomoskedasticity (
talk)
08:39, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
Actually, I've been pretty consistent about these things, that everyone at Wikipedia should be treated fairly and equitably, regardless of how popular or unpopular they are. I haven't given an opinion on whether or not he should be banned, my opinion was based solely on process. The fact that it was oversighted isn't evidence, it is lack of evidence. This is why I said it has to go to Arb. As an admin, I can't even see the edits. I am not going to blindly take the word of anyone, this is a ban discussion, after all. It isn't personal, I'm also not accepting Ironholds or the Oversighters's opinions blindly. Arbs all have Oversight tools. There is some evidence that it wasn't really outing as well. Honestly, I have no opinion on whether the evidence supports banning or not, as I haven't seen it. However, I expect us, as a community, to treat YRC the same as we would treat you or I, and make sure that before we permanently ban someone, that a fair process has been followed. Allowing 100 people who have not seen the evidence to make the decision, some who have personal vendettas, is not optimal. He is already blocked, a short delay while we do this the right way, the fair way, doesn't cost us anything. So I haven't disagreed (or agreed) with your conclusion, I just want us to do this the right way, the objective and fair way, for ourselves.
Farmer Brown (
talk) (alt of Dennis Brown)
12:41, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
First, there are no other admins - aren't they all on strike or something? Second, you need to clear this with your supervisor. Finally, enjoy your well-deserved break.--
Bbb23 (
talk)
00:47, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
Ignoring all rules, I unilaterally accord Dennis permission to take the weekend off without an RfC to decide. I'm not on strike (yet) and though I can't do it as well as Dennis I will be quite happy to hold the fort alone...
Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (
talk)
02:40, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
Since I've stolen a few tools from your commons.js page, I thought I'd let you know about one that I've been working on. I pieced it together using code from a current Gadget and code from a retired user who wrote a predecessor to the gadget. (I had been using the gadget but didn't like it because it removed a lot of helpful tabs (like watch/unwatch), and I didn't like the older code because it didn't have nearly the same functionality as the gadget.) Anyway if you'd like to take it for a test drive, the code is
importScript('User:Adjwilley/cactions.js');
If it works correctly, you should get "user" and "page" tabs that open up into sub-menus that have links to all kinds of useful things like rights, logs, contributions, subpages, blocks, wikichecker, and geolocate (only works on IPs). It looks like it has extra things in there for admins that I can't see obviously. ~
Adjwilley (
talk)20:55, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Ha! That sounds like a good idea. In that case, the pages you'll want to look at are:
[15] and
[16]. You can copy them into your userspace if you'd like, changing the Adjwilleys to Dennis Browns. (The 1st links to the 2nd once). The second link is a direct copy-paste of
[17]. ~
Adjwilley (
talk)21:05, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
I just got to thinking...it's a pretty big page to debug, so maybe this might help:
Here's the difference between my code and the "official" MediaWiki gadget
here. ~
Adjwilley (
talk)00:03, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Could you please reopen the SPI on Logical 1 until Elen has time to respond to the comments just made by IRWolfie and myself? I think you closed it prematurely. Thanks.
Dominus Vobisdu (
talk)
01:37, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Dennis. I didn't realise you'd closed it. Dominus Vobisdu and IRWolfie have also presented some evidence based on behaviours that a CU couldn't identify as the edits are all too old. In such cases I'll mark it as checked, but won't close it because closer examination of the behaviour evidence may confirm identity - as with
Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Leontopodium alpinum where one of the parties was editing thru a proxy, and another admin blocked as a duck. I'll mark a case checked if I've checked but want someone else to look at it - but I have only recently started doing this, I used to leave it as open before, so say if you would prefer me to do that. I'll close if there seems nothing to be done, or nothing else to be done. And occasionally I'll archive if it's better off the board. --
Elen of the Roads (
talk)
12:59, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
YRC and I have both agreed to a voluntary IBAN, as proposed on AN/I, and I've offered to withdraw my request for a site ban so that we can move on from this matter. Would you be up for implementing the IBAN and updating AN/I on the result?
Prioryman (
talk)
07:53, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
I've asked, and so has YRC, for a mutual interaction ban between YRC and Nomoskedasticity. By all means formalise what Prioryman proposes here, but please leave the thread open while we await Nomo's response; and the sub-thread calling for a boomerang is unresolved. --
Anthonyhcole (
talk)
08:16, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
Has anyone asked Nomo about an IBAN? There's no proposal or voting on one on AN/I. I would suggest dealing with Nomo/YRC and myself/YRC as two distinct issues - whether Nomo agrees to an IBAN or not has no bearing on YRC and I agreeing (as we have already done).
Prioryman (
talk)
08:24, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
I see no reason to agree to an interaction ban, nor should one be imposed. It has been many months since I have said anything rude to YRC, and I have no intention of resuming. As for starting the ANI thread on outing -- that was an entirely proper action on my part: for those (like me) who did not know Prioryman's RL identity, YRC's conduct amounted to outing, a conclusion reached also by two oversighters. (The only way to read my actions otherwise is to believe that I should have known Prioryman's RL identity -- but I take some pride in not knowing about these stupid feuds...)
Nomoskedasticity (
talk)
09:40, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Dennis. I've read other editors' descriptions of your mentorship experience but I don't think I've read a comprehensive summary from you. If you have posted it, could you please point me to it; if you haven't, would you like to? --
Anthonyhcole (
talk)
08:12, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
I noticed that you stated on your user page that you were willing to give editor reviews to people mildly interested in RfA. I've been mulling over an adminship run for a while and am looking for feedback on how to improve myself in preparation for this. Regardless of whether or not I decide to eventually run, any feedback on how to improve myself as a contributor would be much appreciated. (I know that right now I'm at least six months out from running. This is because of work/personal commitments that have kept me from editing Wikipedia at consistent levels for the time being, and because of a low-ish percentage of articlespace edits that I'm seeking to improve.) Thanks in advance for any response. elektrikSHOOS (
talk)
01:22, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
John was involved when he made the block of
Boundarylayer. He appears to not have been given any warning about legal threats before being blocked out of hand. Obviously the editor is a bit clueless, with the block evasion, but it certainly doesn't merit the indefinite block (has anyone actually explained the issue to him, he doesn't know what's going on
[20]).
IRWolfie- (
talk)
12:09, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
He needs to stop using that other account, which is still socking and wait a week. I'm completely sympathetic here, but he is compounding it. I'm out of pocket this weekend (see above),
Lexington Barbecue Festival going on, plus I need time off. I popped in with my alt just to make the one observation as I didn't want to leave anything important hanging.
Farmer Brown (
talk) (aka Dennis Brown)
12:41, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi. I see that you are away for the weekend so don't worry about replying to this until you get back. I have some concerns about the SPI case I had opened recently. Could you please explain to me why you dismissed this case --
[21]? Some of the IP addresses haven't edited this year, but the others did and more than once, as well as the named user accounts. Even if some accounts are stale, couldn't it be looked at on behavioral pattern alone? And could you also explain to me why you say there is no abuse between the socks? If the socks are reverting to each other's edits to promote the initial edit of one account, is that not abuse of accounts? Also, the fact that one made an initial edit on the Belly Dance article, where they added content that was not in the source they cited, and they also named the source something it really was not (the source was a fiction/fantasy novel and not a factual book as they claimed). And then to have two other accounts say the exact same thing later on, using the exact same source, is that not fraud and abuse of accounts? The reason I feel this is a serious matter is because the pattern is very alike to Plouton2's socks. This person could be starting up again with new accounts, wouldn't that be considered an evasion of block? If you look at the Plouton2 case, there's over 55 sock accounts blocked. The list I provide follows the same pattern (many accounts targeting same articles), same editing style, same interests. The interconnectivity you displayed does not include all the articles or the socks I listed. As shown in the diffs, some of the socks I listed reverted to socks of Plouton2 and not edits from Plouton2's account alone. What are the chances that any random user would say the exact same thing as another user in the exact same article and then to use the exact same source which is fiction? Could you please have another look at the case? I really would appreciate it.
Thank you.
ProfessionalScholar (
talk)
20:27, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
Just one more thing to add. The reason I came to the SPI board first was so that the suspected socks could be investigated to see if they are in fact 'one' user. The concerns I have go beyond that - which involve fraud, ethnical/cultural issues, etc. But I had a feeling that if I went to any other board bringing these matters up, I would have to list the suspected socks there, and chances are those boards would send me back here to open an SPI first to see if they should be treated as one user vs many users behaving the same way. And instead of jumping around from board to board, I felt it was best to start with an SPI before reporting the user(s). Please read the 'edit summary' here of one of the suspected socks I had listed
[22]. Doesn't that fall under 'personal attack' according to Wikipedia's guidelines? So if this user is in fact using socks, there may be more of those kind of edit summaries and I don't feel that would be considered editing in a civil manner. I may not be available on Monday or Tuesday but I'm not sure yet, so I just wanted to get this in now. Thank you.
ProfessionalScholar (
talk)
19:39, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. If CU can only go back 90 days, I believe a few of these accounts edited within the past 90 days, Koyrda66, Fleris, 212.251.116.91, 212.251.116.20. And then on behavior alone, it is a long list, but the fact that these accounts reverted to the same edits of the others should be taken into account. Not to mention the long history of this user and the past 55 or so sock accounts. I appreciate you looking again. If you don't have the time for this case, maybe another clerk can take a look then? There's also been some new evidence where Fleris has made new reverts that reverted to an IP address located in Greece as well.
ProfessionalScholar (
talk)
21:16, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
It is not a personal issue. My case was already discussed with the Arb Committee. The case I provided here shows diffs with evidence and has nothing to do with anything else. If you like me to ask another Administrator to look at this, I will.
ProfessionalScholar (
talk)
21:23, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
Please see
User talk:SarahStierch#Adoption and
User talk:Brybry1999 and provide assistance. Any other Administrative Page stalkers are invited. An inexperienced (fill in the blank) new user,
User talk:RAIDENRULES123, is insisting on adopting other "fresh from the incubator" new users. Considering assorted factors it can only lead to the detriment of the New Users she adopts. What can be done? This issue deals directly with Editor Retention and how New Editors should be protected from factors they know nothing about. They dont know but they are being fed poisoned food. That may be extreme but only to express my alarm and fear. The new users this editor adopts are, without a doubt, in harms way.
```
Buster Seven Talk05:02, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for your response. I have sent User Keilana a copy of my message to you with the added thought.....{Your adoptee needs advice}.... I assume good faith on the part of Deidra. I also assume poor judgement. ```
Buster Seven Talk13:52, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
Just to wrap this in a bow and put it to bed...
Editor Cindamuse got involved because of (1) all the hard work that was required to fix the confusion that one of Raiden/Deidras adoptees caused at an article, (2) supported the fact that Raiden/Deidra's improper instructions caused the confusion, and (3) removed the Adoption Box from Raiden/Deidra's page. Her mentor is on the case and I trust that there will be a proper resolution and forward progress. There is a lesson here. If Raiden/Deidra's editing and advice had not been so obviously off-base, where someone noticed right away that she had no business being an adopter, who knows how many new users she would have negatively affected. We are all so fragile and innocent when we first enter Wikipedia's front door. We trust what the residents tell us. But, I'm not sure anything can be done except to be watchful. And, lastly, I certainly don't apologize or feel at all badly about raising a little drama which, according to
Sarah and User:slowking4]], is what I did. Both Editor Retention and New Editor Protection are more important than the feelings of one lone editor. ```
Buster Seven Talk06:14, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
Buster. I can't believe you would blame me for that. That wasn't even my fault that was someone elses! I realized that you over react and you "alert the media" which I really don't appreciate. You've made me feel threatened and alone. You've been really welcoming and nice, but now, I've realized that I was wrong about you. You're really nice, so don't take this the wrong way, but I can't believe you would do such a horrible thing to me! Dennis,you don't mind, please ignore the issue. If you don't want to, it's okay, but I'd like you to. Also Dennis, Buster7 has accused me under
false witness. I did not cause the problem he is talking about, and he has wrongly accused me. So, please ignore this issue he has caused. Buster7- I'm really disappointed that you would do such a thing. I don't want to hear any more of the "why's". Please. I really think that you're nice, but don't spread my business around like dirt. It's insulting and unfair. And stop stalking me. It's uncomfortable.
DEIDRA C. (
talk)
21:50, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
I think it's time for me to go on strike. Results are the guru. Had I not interceded who knows how many new editors might have been affected. I'm not the least bit interested in the emotional machinations of a child. False witness, indeed. I always admit my mistakes. This fiasco was not one of them. You will find me under the dresser in the corner over there with the rest of the dustballs fuzzballs. Or, maybe I'll retire to that safe room that was reserved for you. The only good thing about all this is to meet Cindaruse and Keindra. Last comment:I did not over-react. Now I'm a stalker. Someone needs to sit this child down and explain how things work around here. I have removed all "hooks" regarding this editor from my watchlist. I'll bet a dollar to a donut that some new miss-step is right around trhe corner. AGF goes only so far. 'nuff said. ```
Buster Seven Talk15:22, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
On behalf of Ryan Vesey
In regards to Tib42, he’s not entirely at fault. He attempted to discuss the issue and we sort of “wikifilibustered” by not engaging in discussion. The discussion wasn’t a long one in which overwhelming consensus was reached after a good discussion on all points. The discussion was closed with consensus for certain awards to be included that everyone agreed on. The remainder were not discussed because Tib42 failed to return in a reasonable period of time. New consensus should easily have been able to be formed for a number of the awards. The problem was that when Tib42 did come back his attempt at discussion was poor. He attempted to re-discuss the ones we already had consensus to include and tried to discuss including ‘’all’’ of the awards rather than choosing the most notable of the remaining ones he wanted to include. I was busy at the time and didn’t desire to dive in to discussing all of those points. Because I was busy, I attempted to “pass the buck” rather than telling him to start with one or two of the awards he felt were most notable; however, nobody else took part in the discussion. He can’t be blamed for reinserting the material when nobody would discuss it with him. I’m having some technical trouble, so I can’t see the revert. But there wasn’t specific consensus not to include a number of the awards that he wanted to reinstate. (On behalf of
User:Ryan Vesey)
Frood!OhaiWhat did I break now?02:31, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
In response to this discussion and the note left on my talk page, I have no patience for editors who resurrect content issues that have already clearly reached consensus with a rehash of the arguments they lost before. That said, although I have no problem reverting the changes (within limits), as I did yesterday, I'm
not comfortable sanctioning the editor.--
Bbb23 (
talk)
12:38, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
I am not sure what you mean by SPA and other such comments. I am new to wikipedia editing and I decided to start because I am interested in this particular person since he is a personal hero to several people from India, including myself. I have attempted to put together data for every single award as each one of you have insisted. What I cannot understand is, when somebody else included the Hoover medal, nobody objected and there was no discussion at all. But when I am attempting to include that which is common knowledge and from secondary and tertiary sources, you guys are objecting to it. Surely this is not a positive way forward. What does Bbb23 find so objectionable in what I am saying? I have clearly stated my reasons and you can engage. Furthermore, Dennis I object to an insinuation that I do not belong to the category of 'generally not improving the encyclopedia'. I am trying to improve an article that is important to so many Indians. Others will do the same for other articles. Is that not the spirit in which all of this is supposed to work? --
Tib42