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Hey there,
I'm Matthew Enthoven, CEO of OpenCritic.com. We've been following the review aggregator discussion you started, but I felt like it'd be inappropriate for us to weigh in there given the obvious conflict of interest. However, we did want to mention some of the points that we think about when it comes to aggregators, for whatever they're worth.
First, one thing that's concerned us from the conversation is the focus only on the score. While Wikipedia may frequently reference scores alone, we feel like aggregators have so much more potential. Available data is one area - OpenCritic is the only review aggregator for video games that correctly cites the author and the publication that submitted the review. We also supply infographics for game reviews and are continuing to develop there. We're the only aggregator that shows calculated standard deviation, and the only aggregator in games that displays and uses non-scoring reviews (such as Kotaku, Eurogamer, etc.) when calculating the % recommended. We're the only aggregator that shows the overall distribution of review scores, and we highlight where each game lies (ex: "The Witcher 3 is in the top 0.9% of games on OpenCritic"). We're also the only aggregator that lets gamers pick-and-chose their own trusted publications, creating a personalized and individual score. The reason I mention all this is just to say that we don't think about review aggregation as "boiling down all the reviews to a single number" - we think about review aggregation as helping provide consumers with as much information as possible when considering a purchase decision. To us, that means more than just the number - review aggregation is an experience, and we hope that we're judged, at least partially, on that experience too.
Second, we do strongly agree with the "kingmaker" problem in this area. For us, it's the greatest Catch-22: you can't become an authority without being referenced, but you only get referenced if you are an authority. Part of why we chose to maintain total transparency was to lower the bar for "being an authority." We feel that we have nothing to prove as all of our data, processes, decisions, and calculations are public. Even the "decision" of which publications are included on OpenCritic is based on a set of publicly verifiable metrics. Yet still, we struggle with getting over the "authority" hump. Small references from Escapist, Examiner (blacklisted on Wikipedia), Forbes, Lazygamer, and others help tremendously, but the "authority" benchmark remains far away (and rightfully so). I've raised this issue in Wikipedia discussions in the past, but still haven't received a firm answer: what exactly is the "authority" bar? How does one objectively decide what is an authority, and what isn't? Knowing this bar would help us tremendously. One of our pillars is to be "the source of the critical reception of video games," and thus Wikipedia is an important milestone to that end.
Third, we're concerned about the bar of "significantly different data." OpenCritic shares about 50% of its publications with Metacritic. Most of our games are within a couple points of the Metacritic average. Major titles are usually extremely close (within 1 or 2 points). However, we feel like it's worth mentioning that while the majority of scores are very close, the most interesting ones are the ones that aren't close. While those occurrences are rare (our estimates put it around 10-20% of games), we feel like they're worth highlighting. For a cross-platform title, Metacritic lists 3 or more different scores, one for each platform, and Wikipedia uses the platform that received the most reviews. However, OpenCritic averages across all platforms. What's interesting is when these different methods arrive at different conclusions, and we believe that highlighting that difference is beneficial to users when it occurs. But that also means that highlighting the lack of a difference is equally important, when two different processes and data sets arrived at a similar conclusion. Lastly, we just want to mention that even a few points difference has huge ramifications: going from 79 to 82 moves your ranking from the top 27.5% to the top 15.4%. So while 3 points might not look like much, it's a pretty massive score difference.
Anyways, these are just some things to keep in mind. OpenCritic will hit 100 publications over our deploy tonight, and with it come personal pages for each individual critic. We're creating the ability for users to favorite and subscribe to their favorite critics and publications, and will shortly after be creating user reviews. We're also considering overhauling our scoring system to something similar to Rotten Tomatoes and % recommended, but that's further out.
Thanks for sparking the discussion, and we'll be following it.
Cheers,
Matthew
MattEnth ( talk) 19:10, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi SharkD,
I'm going through video game templates, and I noticed that you created {{ E&}}. It's categorized as a WP:VG template, but I can't seem to figure out where it links to or what does. -- Soetermans. T / C 14:35, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
Hey SharkD,
Disclosure in case you don't remember me: I'm Matthew Enthoven, one of the founders of OpenCritic.
We're still trying to figure out ways to make strides when it comes to Wikipedia and wanted to update with some of our progress. Previous conversations seemed to mostly conclude "too soon" and that we weren't "enough of a source in the industry." We wanted to continue to challenge that and get more feedback. Since the start of this year, we've added numerous features and seen our presence as an authority rising, so we thought it'd be a good time to ask again "what is it that you guys look for?"
We've added critic pages, with over 350 critics that have signed up and customized their page. To this day, we are the only aggregator that correctly attributes reviews to their author in addition to their publication.
We also added support for embeddable scores, which are now being used by The Escapist (see bottom of article) and Lazygamer. Websites such as Cubed3 and DarkZero now link to us in their footers, and PlayStation Universe lists us on their reviews.
We've been used as a source by Gamasutra (second paragraph), GeForce/Nvidia (see last paragraph), Examiner, Forbes, and others. We've also been added to Wikipedia Portugal on many pages. In the community, we're an officially sanctioned aggregator by the PS4 subreddit, and have been used across several reddit threads, often times as the only aggregator listed now. Metacritic has even made significant score mistakes, and a few of our users noticed.
We passed 100 publications included, and added word clouds that highlight key features and themes of reviews. We continue to see more and more traction across the board. We're adding 3DS and Vita titles now, with Fire Emblem Fates' review embargo already posted. We're the only aggregator that includes publications such as Eurogamer, AngryCentaurGaming, GameXplain, and TotalBiscuit, and we're the only aggregator that maintains the original score format. We also report on the percentage of critics that recommend the title, a statistic that allows us to include non-numeric publications.
We strongly believe that we are the fastest and most reliable aggregator. We are consistently faster than Metacritic, as several critics have noticed. We've invested heavily in our technology and our presentation, and believe strongly that, while we draw on the same data as Metacritic, we offer a more complete and informed picture fo a title. As we wrap up our next few features, we're hoping to improve and, well...
The reason I'm writing is: We really want to know what you guys are looking for. This isn't a "please put us on Wikipedia" type thing: we're young gamers and don't really consider Wikipedia readers to be our demographic, and as we have no advertising, they'd be revenue-negative anyway. Instead, we're just looking for feedback. We consider you, as a video game editor, to be an intellectual in the industry that we want to support and thrive in. So we want to know - what do you look for when evaluating OpenCritic as an "industry source"? What are the variables/factors? What are the things we can improve?
We're always on the lookout for ideas, and as we wrap up our next few features, we want to get your thoughts and opinions.
Sincerely, MattEnth ( talk) 01:04, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
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Template:Vgrtbl-bl has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Lordtobi ( ✉) 19:09, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
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Per the discussion at Wikipedia:Featured topic candidates/Wipeout series/archive1, I was recommended to merge the soundtrack articles as there aren't enough reliable sources to expand them, sadly. JAG UAR 22:40, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello and congrats for your work. I'm interested about improving the quality of my additions. Are you OK with me trying again with more refs to Metacritic, reviews and interviews, if that's your requirement? Mondopiri ( talk) 06:11, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
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Hi SharkD recently we came across each other where you reverted/deleted some ref contributing edits. I have to say I'm a little bit irritated by that. First, in general I added refs to articles which are in critical need for such material. So, this should be highly welcome. Second, sub-optimal formatting is NOT a valid reason for removal or revert of valid (even critical!) content. And third, it is a wiki... please help with formatting that stuff. :) all the best... Shaddim ( talk) 10:13, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
Saw you left a message (via email) on my talk page, but saw it was deleted.
Perhaps the most frustrating part of all this now is that Metacritic is just accepted as a "legitimate source," to the point where they seem to be able to get away with anything. As an example, Metacritic started aggregating this publication earlier this year. This one was added in Q4 last year. I don't want to come across as mean towards a small guy, but they're Alexa ranked 1 million, with less than 5,000 total social media followers, and with no formal journalism background.
How did Metacritic evaluate these publications for inclusion? It seems pretty arbitrary, knowing it's one guy behind the scenes who's making this decision.
But there's more... Metacritic has also started claiming "translation exclusivity" to create barriers between it and OpenCritic. Last summer, they were caught using OpenCritic as their source of data. Can we claim OpenCritic as a legitimate authority when Metacritic seems to recognize us as such?
I strongly encourage you to do some digging on Metacritic's editorial standards and ask why they're considered a trusted authority at all. In our opinion, much of it is because "they just always have been." Some of these recent decisions aren't the actions of an authority.
Our view is different. Our view is that, to be included in an aggregator as a "critic," that word "critic" has to mean something. It means that you're not an ordinary person reviewing games - you're held in some sort of esteem by our society and culture. That's why we have our standards focus on audience size and trust. What separates critics from ordinary reviewers is the presence of an audience. Metacritic seems to no longer care about this distinction.
Meanwhile, we're used in press releases, online marketplaces, community addons, publications we don't even aggregate, and studio leaders themselves.
It does start to feel a little hopeless, but the silver lining is that we continue to make progress. We're still in every review thread. We're still growing every month.
Just would be nice to know what specifically Wikipedia is looking for. Comments like "we haven't even vetted OpenCritic as a trusted source" feel awful, because we don't get any actionable feedback from that.
Right now, it feels like Metacritic is king because a) they aggregate movies, tv shows, music, and games, inflating their traffic, and b) they always have been. Not because they actually meet the "trusted source" standards of Wikipedia.
MattEnth ( talk) 18:07, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but you recently removed maintenance templates from Wikipedia. When removing maintenance templates, please be sure to either resolve the problem that the template refers to, or give a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Please see Help:Maintenance template removal for further information on when maintenance templates should or should not be removed. If this was a mistake, don't worry, as your removal of this template has been reverted. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. I don't appreciate your editing behavior at the Close Combat: Battle of the Bulge. Having a problem with a maintenance tag without fixing the problem is not appropriate and undermines the efforts who try to improve the encyclopedia. I request that you self-revert. Also, please see WP:OWN --- Steve Quinn ( talk) 04:53, 23 August 2017 (UTC) Steve Quinn ( talk) 04:53, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for adding these references [1]. Much appreciated. --- Steve Quinn ( talk) 05:41, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
Template:Vgrpg-chrono has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pppery ( talk • contribs) 14:13, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
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Hey! Based on your edits to NationStates, I thought maybe you would be interested that I started a series of userboxes for the game. Feel free to add any or add your own!- 🐦Do☭torWho42 ( ⭐) 05:43, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
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Template:Euphoria Engine games has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. czar 20:24, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
Hi SharkD , as you were involved some time ago in a discussion regarding infobox fields with VGs, there is an ongoing 3O discussing this for C-Evo. cheers Shaddim ( talk) 07:53, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
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Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialog, peoples rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension.
Category:Gamebryo engine games, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 10:11, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
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Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialog, peoples rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension. Same card/New year. Happy Holidays to you and yours. ― Buster7 ☎ 14:48, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
You asked at Talk:List of pitch intervals#Other tuning images:
I'm not sure if you're offering to make images or asking for images to be made. If you're offering, they all say " be bold". If you're requesting I would be willing to make images comparing tunings, or at least attempt to. I'd be open to any specific requests or ideas and any suggestions or suggested improvements/corrections of the images I've already made. Just in case you don't know, there's Commons:Category:Interval and tuning diagrams. Hyacinth ( talk) 11:10, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
What do you like or dislike about File:Music intervals frequency ratio equal tempered pythagorean comparison.svg? Hyacinth ( talk) 04:02, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
Template:LucasArts game engines has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 13:18, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
Unless there is a specific concern or inaccuracy against it, I would say go for it! -- ExperiencedArticleFixer ( talk) 15:42, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
Some of the barnstar template categories you've created are up for a rename discussion. — andrybak ( talk) 19:14, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
Category:Unity (game engine) games has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Sandstein 19:09, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at List of space flight simulation games. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been or will be reverted.
Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continued disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you. - R9tgokunks ⭕ 00:27, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
I made dozens of style and format changes to make the article meet Wikipedia guidlines (and look cleaner and you blanket reverted them literally with the edit summary of basically "I dunno," and didn't even ATTEMPT to help, you just left the article alone. You've been here for 14 years and know better. You can at the very least look at my edit summaries. ("rm redlinks and advertisements, removed outdated and cancelled", "rm rating category in first section. only used for 2-3 ios games. totally inappropriate per Wikipedia:WWIN", "rm duplicates, already linked, add italics per section rules") I removed dozens of games that people added to advertise their projects, games I updated that were cancelled or ended up being released, and removed redlinks and organized and condensed. I also removed duplicate games, and DLC for games that didn't need to be included as their own, or were already covered. There is no reason for your edit. Please read the style guidelines and Wikipedia:WWIN. Do better. - R9tgokunks ⭕ 00:32, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
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Hhnmmmk 2409:4043:688:BB7B:0:0:2FA:50A5 ( talk) 17:06, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
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Template:TOSHI Engine games has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 21:18, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
I like reading through old wikipedia edits and found this humerous, cheers mate
62.240.192.35 ( talk) 10:58, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
Category:Video games by game engine has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Respiciens ( talk) 10:25, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
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Users may edit the articles during the discussion, including to improve the articles to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the articles until the discussion has finished.
Respiciens ( talk) 13:06, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
Category:Twin-stick shooters has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. PerryPerryD Talk To Me 17:51, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
The article Global Diplomacy has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
The article about a video game lacks sources and seemingly lacks notability per the advice at WP:NVG. The linked webpages are also dead, indicating no continued relevance. One alternative would be to merge with Email Games, the game's publisher, but there is no such article.
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}}
notice, but please explain why in your
edit summary or on
the article's talk page.
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}}
will stop the
proposed deletion process, but other
deletion processes exist. In particular, the
speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and
articles for deletion allows discussion to reach
consensus for deletion.
I am notifying you because you have contributed to this article in the past. Thanks! - - mathmitch7 ( talk/ contribs) 23:05, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Enigma Engine until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 12:44, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Timelines of video games has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. QuantumFoam66 ( talk) 00:11, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
Category:Video games with tile-based graphics has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. QuantumFoam66 ( talk) 23:21, 10 July 2024 (UTC)