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Hey, Chris the speller. I love the fact that your user name says you're out there (in here?) to make the word safe for correct spelling. Hurrah! I love correct spelling, but I hate bad spelling more intensely. I regularly proofread the magazine I own and publish ( The Sondheim Review), so I make lots of fixes. I also hate bad grammar.
As a relative Wikipedia newbie, I've started making my own contributions. A recent grammar fix--which I thought was minor--to someone else's main article contribution, brought on a near-immediate reversion to the original by its author. This could balloon into something unnecessarily big. It may be too late to prevent that, as my grammar police impulse already feels wounded. (Ow.)
If you look at what is presently section 1.3 of Sam Harris (author)#Islam, you'll note it starts with "All of which lunacy...". To my American ear, this is an incorrect use of the word "which." Except in unusual cases, the pronoun "which," when referring to earlier antecedents, is nearly always used in a clause and not as the subject of a sentence. When the United Kingdom writer on 11 August 2006 restored my correction of "All of this lunacy" to "All of which lunacy," I hesitate to do battle, as perhaps the King's English allows such things, although I doubt it.
So, my question is, Chris the speller: Where can one go to find a Wikipedia-based grammar expert? Have I really erred in my correction? When and how does one decide which fray to enter? Why am I awake at 3:00 am in my time zone talking about grammar? Will Wikipedia soon take over my life? (Rhetorical questions end here.)
Thanks in advance for any pointers. I'm watching your page to follow any replies. :) -- RayBirks 08:09, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Chris, I have taken to heart your advice from several month ago, and removed the dates from the disambig. in the articles I have edited. Since nearly all these articles are about politicians, I am using their office; governor, senator, representative, delegate, etc instead. It nearly always works although sometimes requires a state name in front, and very rarely requires another qualifier. So, for instance, there were several James Williams' who were U.S, Representatives. I am calling the one in Delaware " James Williams (Delaware representative)." Do you think "James Williams (DE representative)" would be better, or anything else? What would you do if there were two in one state, as there are for some names in larger states, say (Delaware2 representative)?
Finally, could you assist me in a couple of moves associated with this. I want to move " James Sykes (physician)" to "James Sykes (governor)." And I want to move " Nicholas Van Dyke (1769-1826)" to "Nicholas Van Dyke (senator)." This will standardize the usage. Do you have the knowledge or juice to do this? I don't seem to, as the names have been used before. You help and advice is much appreciated. stilltim 21:35, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Chris, my old friend, How you been? Man, I was thinking about you just yerterday. I wanted to know if you can take a look at my latest article and correct any mispellings. The article is " Puerto Rican women in the military" Cheers Tony the Marine 18:58, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Carmen's surnames was Lozano Durnier (In Puerto Rico some people continue to use their fathers and mothers surname). She kept her maiden surnames. Her husband's surname was Dumler, but she preferred her surnames. I have kept in touch with some people in the Women's Military Memorial Committee. They have supplied me with info and clipboards on some of the women I've written about.
I only wish that I had a nurse as good-looking as her in the Marine Corps. Man, she was hot then (she still is alive). If you are wondering why some Puerto Ricans have French and Corsican (Italian) surnames (My ancestors were Corsican0, I invite you to take a look at two short articles that I've written (You can also do your thing), they are French immigration to Puerto Rico and Corsican immigration to Puerto Rico. It is fun interacting with you. Cheers! Tony the Marine 16:50, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
FYI, I have nominated this article for deletion; I noticed you had edited earlier. You can discuss it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Laromlab -- Aleph-4 09:40, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Chris, thanks for letting me know. I want to share something with you. Sometime ago I wrote the articles about Captains Manuel Rivera, Jr. and Humbert Roque Versace. I realized that their names were not inscribed in Puerto Rico's Memorial dedicated to Puerto Rican fallen soldiers "El Monumento de la Recordacion" and those of Puerto Rican descent. I started a campaign to get this done by writting to the President of the Puerto Rican Senate and finally after many investigations I received this e-mail from the government two days ago:
Dear Tony Santiago:
I would like to notify that I received the confirmation of Mr. José Pagán, Public Affairs Officer, that indeed Captain Manuel Rivera and Captain Humberto Roque complete the requirements to be included in the list of soldiers at the Memorial Monument.
If you have any questions you can contact me at [omitted]. You can also write to my e-mail.
Our office (Tourism) will be coordinating the Memorial Day Event. That means that we will contacting you around the month March.l
Have a nice day,
Adrián J. Pacheco Suárez
According to them, I'll be invited to the unveiling on Memorial Day next May 2007. Pretty cool, don't you think? Tony the Marine 21:18, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Hey Chris, how you doing? Could you please take a look at one of articles and do your thing? This is the one Fernando E. Rodriguez Vargas. Thanks a lot buddy. Tony the Marine 02:09, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
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The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar | |
For dedication to improving and expanding Wikipedia. Good job! Sharkface217 02:26, 31 October 2006 (UTC) |
You are quite welcome for the Barnstar. Interestingly enough, I created that stub less than an hour ago. It turns out that while US Navy ships are seemingly well-represented on Wikipedia (hundreds, possibly thousands of US Navy ships articles), the surface has only been scraped. There have been many thousands more ships that have served since the late 1700s, and it seems for every blue link on the list of US navy ships page, there are 5 red ones.
Thank you Chris, for checking out the Major Fernando Rodriguez Vargas article. I just wrote an article on Brigadier General Ruben A. Cubero. Funny thing, I wrote to the Air Force Academy Historian because I wanted some info about the General's eary years and they sent me his home phone number. Hell, it took me two days before I built up the courage to call him. I mean what if he told me "Who the hell you? Why should I give you my personal information?" It turned out that we both had a lot in common and we spoke as if we've known each other for years. Man, that was something. Tony the Marine 01:33, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Chris- I just have to ask. Are you a native speaker of American English? The date formats you have entered on Cardinal James Freeman's article are not in the Australian/English format- and I have to say that some of us who don't speak American English really notice these sorts of changes and are not pariculalry comfortable with them. You have made an article about an Australian prelate look like it was generated in America, and some of us get very thingy about that. We hate it. It's not the way we speak or write. Is there a wiki policy on this sort of thing? We can't really all be expected to conform to American English. I will have to lead the revolution if this is the case. For the moment, I have reverted the dates to a format Australians are comfortable with. Freman was an Australian (loved Americans, but didn't speak American English). My view is we should tolerate each valid form of English in their appropriate context (eg. American English in biographical articles which refer specifically to Americans, Australian (pretty much British) English in Australian article (especially biographical) etc. etc. What do you think? Cor Unum 09:23, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Cor Unum 10:39, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
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The Tireless Contributor Barnstar | |
Good job! :-) 16:14, 14 November 2006 (UTC) |
Hi, I notice that you change dates (not always consistently from that I can see, so not sure how that works) and opening paragraphs. Opening per WP:DATE is different from the guidance at Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Players, so you might want to have a look there and suggest a consistent way forward. Would help for people like me who followed the Player manual of style anyway WikiGull 08:58, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
You have changed the dates on several articles lately from [[dd Month]] to [[Month dd]] with an edit summary of "date format per WP:DATE". However, WP:DATE states that both forms are acceptable. The Mediawiki software will actually convert linked dates to the reader's specified preference. Most readers won't see a difference in the changes you made. I'd suggest you hold off doing wholesale date updates as some people may react to it in the same manner others react to US & British spelling changes. I, personally, don't see the point in spending time doing something the software handles automatically. But if you want to continue, please use a more appropriate edit summary. -- JLaTondre 12:30, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Both articles contained "On the 19th", while WP:DATE states: "Do not use ordinal suffixes". OK, back to work! Chris the speller 23:35, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Sounds like you have it pretty well-covered. :) The original stub was (I thought) a subject already covered under the "Barnstorming" header. Thanks for letting me know what's up! - Lucky 6.9 02:28, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure that your changes got saved. What were they? I'm sorry if I somehow stomped on them. Dfass 20:42, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Just wonderinng if you saw the in use tag...I was on a major overhaul of the article, and much work that I did was lost because of your edit. Thanks, anyway. -- Pinay06 19:13, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Hey Chris! Thanks! You will see my articles in my userpage User:pinay06, not priority, only when you have the time, but on top priority of my list are the currently peer reviewed ones I have contributed: Chocolate Hills, Philippine Tarsier, Philippine Tarsier Foundation. Best regards!-- Pinay06 22:45, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Congrats on number 10,000! Live long and prosper. Dfass 00:21, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Hey Chris! You still editing? I forgot about my own article Sandugo which is currently GA nominee. Please do the honors, too, of checking for misspelling. Maybe also Sandugo Festival? Thanks much! -- Pinay06 04:13, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
You got that pretty fast, man. Nicely done. âThe preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.207.39.100 ( talk) 06:38, 13 December 2006 (UTC).
Hi Chris. How are you? Here's an additional list of articles for you: Panaghoy sa Suba, Dagohoy Rebellion, Francisco Dagohoy, Tamblot and Tamblot Uprising. Please do the honors...Thank you. -- Pinay06 16:57, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Guest818 has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{ subst:smile}}, {{ subst:smile2}} or {{ subst:smile3}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Happy editing!
re: corected speling on the B-17 page...thanck you.
Hey Chris, how's it goin? Please spell check this article. Thank you. -- Pinay06 ( Talk/ Email) 18:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
This is another one from me today. Thanks in advance. -- Pinay06 ( Talk⢠Email) 02:31, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I am considering nominating the article Ford BA Falcon for Good Article status, so could you please check or review the article and if you can add anything to it please do. Senators 02:55, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Hey Chris, thanks...Since you already did Dagohoy, you might also like to do Dagohoy Rebellion, Tamblot and Tamblot Uprising...Thanks again. -- Pinay06( Talk⢠Email) 03:02, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
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The Philippine Barnstar Award | |
I hereby give you this Philippine Barnstar Award for your diligent efforts and untiring assistance to my Philippine-related articles. Keep up the good work! -- Pinay06( Talk⢠Email) 18:21, 20 December 2006 (UTC) |
This should be due for your "scrutiny" now. Thank you. --
Pinay06(
Talkâ¢
Email)
23:43, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
O.K., so maybe you don't believe in Santa, but I still want to wish you and your loved ones a "Happy Holidays" and all of the happiness in the world and the best new year ever. Your friend, Tony the Marine 23:55, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
I have only awarded two of the rare No. 1 Medals and it is my pleasure to award this one to you for your dedication and hard work in the Pedia. Tkae care Tony the Marine 17:16, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
If you need me (Senators) to help you with anything I am glad to, such as reviews, article checks and general assistance. Contact me on my talk page for help. Senators Talk | Contribs 00:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Enjoy this and this -- Pinay06 ( Talk⢠Email) 05:00, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
you fixed my spelling.... Blueaster 02:20, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Sorry about that editing comment, I was just surprised those problems hadn't been edited out yet. I'll read the articles. Thanks! Silence(water) 18:34, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the spelling corrections. But I think now we could use your help against those Vandals who will want to REVERT - for partison reasons.
I took care of Haghpat Monastery already. Thanks for pointing it out. WordPerfect spellcheck let "Monastary" slip by. House of Scandal 17:06, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Happy New Year from Tony the Marine
I wish you and your loved ones all the happiness in the world this coming year. âThe preceding unsigned comment was added by Marine 69-71 ( talk ⢠contribs) 02:04, 1 January 2007 (UTC).
Thanks for the corrction, Its time to hit the hay!-- Woogie10w 02:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
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The TomStar81 Spelling Award | |
Be it known to all members of Wikipedia that Chris the speller has corrected my god-awful spelling on the page USS Texas (BB-35), and in doing so has made an important and very significant contribution to the Wikipedia community, thereby earning this TomStar81 Spelling Award and my deepest thanks. Keep up the good work! TomStar81 ( Talk) 22:51, 2 January 2007 (UTC) |
Hello Chris, thank you for spell-checking Lizard Union. Unfortunately this wikipedia needs a whole lot more than just spell-checking. Look at the Lysy version now. If you are interested in real history and not only wikipedia versions, you might want to take a look at: Discussion: Lizard Union Labbas 4 January 2007
Hi Chris. We are back to Eskaya. LoL. There was some work done on the article, and I just submitted it for peer review. I forgot there might be some spelling errors. Please do me the honors. Thank you. And how've you been? Was Santa nice to you?-- Pinay ( talk⢠email) 05:19, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for spelling corrections, they are nicer than criticizing bad English... Cheers ! Lapaz 17:07, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi Chris, here's more for you: Immaculate Heart of Mary Seminary, List of people of the Immaculate Heart of Mary Seminary, Paring Bol-anon and St. Genevieve Church. Thank you. -- Pinay ( talk⢠email) 21:44, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I was not sure about LeBreton's book; it was missing quotes at the end, and I made them italics, as "volume" indicates a book, not a chapter. That sentence is might lumpy, and might be better with "Dominique" moved before "old Jupiter". Chris the speller 01:33, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Roger Baudier of CAS (see Ref 2) appears to have made the actual quote from LeBreton's Chaht a-Ima rather than LeBreton herself. From what it appears, LeBreton simply called Dominique "old Jupiter in a black blanket." There is certainly lumptiness of the sentence of Baudier but not in the way language is spoken in the southern part of Louisiana. Also keep in mind, the "creoles (locals), like the French Cajuns, has a way with words (and mighty proud of it!) that is only acceptable at home and no place else. Where else in the world would you hear someone ask you how you're doing with, "Where you at?" except in the "city that care forgot," New Orleans. -- ChicogoN 10:08, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Chris, please check if an article is preceded by a coloured 'In use' box before editing it. This will help avoid edit conflicts. Thanks Perezkelly 06:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Hits me - i could have sworn its "faciliate". Well, I'm german native, so thanks for improving my english ;-) -- Echosmoke 05:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks a bunch for having edited the de Feure article. And that was pretty damn quick too! Moumine 00:37, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Chris, pls spell check. Thank you. -- Pinay ( talk⢠email) 23:39, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
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The Minor Barnstar | |
Chris, for fixing all the spelling mistakes, I award the Minor Barnstar. Keep up the good work! Kamope | userpage | talk | contributions 23:34, 11 January 2007 (UTC) |
Much work has been done on this lately, Chris. Please spell check. Thanks. -- Pinay ( talk⢠email) 23:07, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the spell check. I'll remember this "occurence" in the future. :-) Bill D 01:48, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Please see my note at Talk:Cardiff City F.C.#My_revert - sorry to revert over your addition, but it looked like I was the only one that noticed the vandalism. Thanks. -- EarthPerson 20:26, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi Chris, your reversions of my edits to Nick Dyer by User:Inspire62 were actually my reversions of that user's vandalism of a biography of a cricketer. This user (and the same vandalism from IP address User:88.111.25.84 has repeatedly changed the page to the crap about some nice tall kid from Nottingham. I have reverted the page. Again. For the third time in the past couple of hours. I have placed a note on his talkpage suggesting that he make his own page if he thinks he's worthy of a bio; I don't agree that he is, mind you. Regards, Flyguy649 19:07, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi again. No problem. I assumed it was an error, which is why I left you the note; I hope it wan't too snippy. As I'm sure you know, it's incredibly frustrating reverting the same crap over and over. Especially since the Nottingham Nick apparently wanted his own page and apparently refused to read up on how to make a new page. Anyway, enough for now. And thanks very much for the links you left... I'm going to need them sooner or later! Take care,
Flyguy649
23:01, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing my refering->referring typo, I appreciate it. Manxruler 17:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Please spell-check Arnold Zamora and Chorus Paulinus for me? Thanks. -- Ate Pinay ( talk⢠email) 23:47, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, I know it's Sunday, but here's more for you! Also List of songs penned by J. Roel Lungay. Thanks much! -- Ate Pinay ( talk⢠email) 17:55, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for correcting all my spelling mistakes, it must be annoing.
Hi, first of all I wanted to thank you for you help on vandal patrol :). I don't know if you are aware of it, but starting today, there are new unified user warnings in place. The idea behind this rewamp was, among other things, to add some consistency to their look and wording. Check them out at WP:UTM! You can of course continue to use the old test templates, but please give a shot of our shiny new {{ uw-test1}}, {{ uw-vandalism1}} and {{ uw-delete1}}. The numbering is still 1 to 4. I hope you'll appreciate them! Happy vandal fighting! -- lucasbfr talk 22:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Chris, thanks for the spell check of LSm. I must have a mental block about proceeds, I've misspelled it more than once. Bob Plaag 05:24, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
I note that you changed the former to the latter in the article at Kelvin MacKenzie. To be honest, I can't really say I feel strongly about the issue, however the Oxford English Dictionary sees both as acceptable, and I would say that publically is still in reasonably wide public use- not quite archaic yet. I'd say that it's more a matter of personal taste than a matter of spelling, but as I said, it's not something I'll lose any sleep over. Good work on the spellchecking you do, however! Robotforaday 20:45, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi Chris, I just saw your reply at Wikipedia talk:Hatnotes#The_case_for_hatnotes. Thanks for your support!
This issue seems to pop up every month or two on my talk page, and I sometimes despair at how few editors seem to add hatnotes to biographical articles (some even remove them! aaargh!). So was wondering whether you might be intersted in working togerher on some guidance on this.
I'm not sure whether it shoud be at WP:HATNOTE, WP:MOSBIO, WP:DAB, or at a new page, but I think it might be useful to set out the something which explains why biographical articles need hatnotes to assist the reader.
Would you be intersted? -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) ⢠( contribs) 21:47, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Chris, these four are currently being nominated for
WP:GA: - can u just do a quick check, in case? thanks much!
Eskaya
Chocolate Hills
Philippine Tarsier Foundation
Philippine Tarsier--
Ate Pinay (
talkâ¢
email)
21:11, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
That's great!! :-) Bill D 00:27, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
if you dont have anything special to do please wikify The graaf sisters article/matrix17
If you wikify the graaf sisters article. then the article will stay tough the only thing needed is for it to be wikifyed,) and yes the sisters are hoooot;);P/matrix17
Chris, you found my mis-spell almost instantly! How you do that? Thanks Mayagaia 22:19, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the explain- and for keeping wiki cleaned up. That software seems a small step towards closing the gap between Cybernetics and cognition so eventually humans will not need any memory and can spend all their conscious energy in contemplation of the divine.
Hi Chris!
Just to welcome you and thank you for your helps. Sangak 16:51, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Hey there, Chris. Can you do the honor of cleaning up the future Philippine President's page? LoL! Thanks. -- Ate Pinay ( talk⢠email) 17:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I really don't have anything to say except I'm sorry. Thanks for not biting me. -- Umalee 18:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi Chris, trouble is when you're on NP patrol you see so many one-line articles without much notability. If you're going to expand this one I'll gladly remove the CSD tag. Cheers, EliminatorJR 23:17, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
CSD tag removed! EliminatorJR 23:28, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi saw you wander across my watch list in the kraton disambig - thanks for that - suspect i should have done it a long time ago since the problems i had with the polymer guys... thanks again Satu Suro 22:54, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Because of your dedication and your excellent work in Wikipedia, I have inducted you to my "Wall of Honor" Tony the Marine 21:30, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
I subdivided the Dala - Dale & Dalr - Daly secns of
List of people by name: Daa-Dam. I'll comment soon on your other questions.
--
Jerzyâ¢
t
11:31, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
_ _ OK, yr talking abt
Dale,
Dale (origin),
Dale (part of place name) but not
Dale (name),
Dale (given name), nor
List of people named Dale, AFAI can see. And you created
Dale (surname) subsequently. You also mention
MoS:DP NTBCW, a funky name for
WP:MOSDAB. And i see that your Special:Allpages lk has something in the half-thousand ballpark of relevant articles and Rdrs. I didn't track down that
WP:MOSDAB talk archive.
_ _ I continue unconvinced that Dab or Dab-style or list pages for people with a common given-name are encyclopedic; when i find one (maybe even the 4-or-so-name sub-list you removed) cluttering a Dab, i generally dump it onto a tk page with a note deprecating its worth, on the theory that preserving trash to save the labor of fools who would waste energy recreated it or hunting it down in the history, is an efficiency. But i don't think WP should try to substitute for either baby-name books or "List of people who make me cool by sharing my name".
_ _ If you don't get how to subdivide sections, i blame either my deficiencies as a documenter (minor-league-pathologically self-defeating compulsiveness) or my resulting tendency to put my efforts elsewhere. Don't apologize if you don't learn how; we can't really be
Experts on Everything, and it's one of my specialties, tho i welcome anyone's teaching themselves how, or trying it and leaving it to others (maybe me) to clean up after. And those who get cleaned up after may gain insight by looking at the diffs for the cleanup.
_ _ I could do my next large subdivision in stages, with unnecessary saves to in effect document the conditions that each division of a section remedies (or even revert the one i did for Dal..., and recapitulate the process, if another good opportunity doesn't come along soon) to provide an implicit tutorial. The hope of it being useful to you would be enuf reason to do so, and if you ended up complementing my deficiencies by leveraging your review of it into a commentary on the process, for
Talk:List of people by name/Intra-page structure that would be super tho far from expected. Hmm, a plan is shaping up here, and when i carry it out, i'll alert those interested on that tk pg, & invite anyone to
document for others the principles buried in my
harmless, albeit pathetic, drudgehood.
_ _ If i've missed an implicit question, ask me again.
--
Jerzyâ¢
t
20:02, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
You might also mention that it seems to work well for such large bio Dab pages to be organized into sections for bios w/ related cause of notability, which is distinctly not what LoPbN is designed to deal with.
--
Jerzyâ¢
t
20:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
_ _ I applaud your interest and perception, reflected in
your addition of "People named ..." into a LoPbN heading. I'd have left it as it was, and i think you've shown that you'll grasp my reasoning (whether or not we end up agreeing).
_ _ You may have noticed the phenomenon/design-decision that i call a "level jam", in the sense of two or more levels of the logical hierarchy being jammed into one actual section level. The theoretical structure there is
(We've split the logical level below Da into two physical levels, implemented in this case by the Daa-Dam page and the Dal section within it; also, with Daley as whole surname, the logical "Daley, B" etc. are physically unneeded (so far) and the sections "Daley, B-J" and "Daley, L-W" get what would logically be within those.)
_ _ The level jam is (for now) feasible bcz the entries belonging under each of "Daley", "People named Daley", "Daley as surname", and "Daley as whole surname" are the same in each case. I have one clear reason, and maybe a couple of vaguer ones, for choosing, as title for the physical level (section), the name of the highest of the jammed-together levels:
On the other hand, it's lonely out here on the fringes of the LoPbN design, and i'm quite pleased that there's someone thinking about the issues. I'd be pleased to hear your reaction, whether agreeing or disagreeing. And thanks for getting involved enough for the question to arise.
--
Jerzyâ¢
t
19:31, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Gosh, i had already forgotten our previous, immediately preceding discussion on this page! I should look at the history of the Dal page before saying any more!
--
Jerzyâ¢
t
19:34, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
(Off topic:
But this has gone too far already, and i'm not evey sure you've caught
the tune.
)
_ _ Looking now
List of people by name: Hoa-Hoe, i had thot you were describing a level jam such as i mention above (something i practice cautiously, and even so with mental reservations) rather than what i've thot ... a lot? ... no, but frequently (tho briefly, except very early on) and strongly. My ready example is based on an old
Reader's Digest joke about the student who's disappointed that encyclopedia volumes from the school library don't circulate, because he wants to learn HOW to HUG -- but i'll call the approach a level straddle now that the need for a name arises. And while i think of the more familiar level jams as mild cheating, these straddles worry me much more; i have invariably avoided them. But i find my hard line about them softening as i try to state my objections.
_ _ I think the way to state my misgivings is this: navigation in the form of where the eye rests, or rather the shrinking range it flits within, is much more efficient where there are effective signposts. If you're familiar with the computer science concepts of
binary and
linear searches, their human-executed equivalents are both insufficient as methods for finding the bio you want in the LoPbN structure. (If you'd like a feel for that, exaggerating the problem the problem helps: take a trip down
memory lane to January 2004, when
List of people by name: Ma was not an index-only page with a couple of dozen pages sprawling out over three levels below it in the tree, but
a 55 K-byte list with something over 500 entries and no sections. Even despite the intervening growth (the Marti... names, e.g., numbered 49 then, and 182 now, by my quick counts), i presume you find
to fall short of effortlessness but still be simpler, probably quicker and less subject to the occasional frustration of wasted effort due to momentary confusions between, e.g., Holt... and Hotl... and infinitely less boring, compared to
before doing similar searches among one screenful of entries. While i don't mean to suggest that straddled sections are equivalent to no structure, i do think that the structure of your variation is less intuitive and more error prone, and that these will badly serve users by slowing them down somewhat and occasionally leave them somewhat confused and/or frustrated -- even if these effects are not consciously noted by the users affected. I also am concerned that the logic that justifies what i'll call the "narrow-scoped center" subsection of Hob actually commends changes nearby, in this case the likelihood that the Ho page does not need subdivision at the same points as at present: Hobb... is like Hoff..., Holm..., and Howard, so at some phase in the growth of the list (i have no confidence that it's a phase that's over) the appropriate structure of a single Ho page would be something like
Applied to the degree it is in your sample, i think this scheme disrupts the orderly process of stepping down one level per letter of the name being sought, and applied to its logical conclusion, i think it loses that concept completely, leaving users to search for the section they need either sequentially or largely in a rough approximation of binary search (i.e., homing in by hit-and-miss). (My impression is that most encyclopedias stick to volumes covering a letter of the alphabet or a range of single letters, suggesting to me that the exceptions either admire the appearance of volumes of uniform thickness, or save expense by not requiring their binderies to adapt to differing sizes.)
_ _ I don't want to claim that my intuition in this is necessarily reliable, but i do think its notions need to be addressed, perhaps by experiment. I think that if i haven't convinced you, you should leave Hoa - Hoe as a sample and work toward a presentation of the scheme, including clearly its full scope, on one of the
Talk:LoPbN group of pages, where more eyeballs can weigh the two schemes against each other. I think implementing straddles in a consistent fashion would affect most LoPbN tree pages, probably entailing more widely varying page titles and a less intuitive and otherwise user-friendly scheme than what i'm about to implement: you've got a big change in mind.
--
Jerzyâ¢
t
07:10, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Sounds like an excellent tool. Suggestions:
--
Jerzyâ¢
t
06:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
_ _ I'm not really surprised at how many alph errors your tool is finding, tho i certainly wasn't thinking about how many i missed, along with the ones that i occasionally fix. This is a very fine advance! Thank you for it.
_ _ There are three categories of non-English-alphabet characters that you may want to think about (if only to say "My, that's interesting", and set them on your mental knick-knack shelf):
Bottom line? If you're a programming wiz and have the interest, you may see directions for refinement of your tool; if you're an aggressive researcher, you may want to check and/or flesh out my understandings above. In case you have some such interest, here's an incomplete list of LoPbN appearances of, mostly, the upper and lower Eth characters:
_ _ Finally, i've worked over some of your recent work; probably you already realize that absence of "Top" near your latest edit of a page on your "My contributions" page indicates someone haveing edited that page since you. Don't hesitate to ask questions, where my summaries leave you guessing.
--
Jerzyâ¢
t
20:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
--
Jerzyâ¢
t
22:35, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
_ _ Congratulations again on your worthwhile tool-making efforts -- in particular, your addition of what in retrospect seems like a natural extension, counting the sections' entries.
_ _ I suggest you add a new section on
Talk:List of people by name/Intra-page structure to list pages or even sections overdue for section-subdivision, each as an appropriate lk, to ease getting there. I can't decide whether an alpha list or an oldest-first list is more likely to work well; in fact, the answer may well depend on the work-to-worker ratio. Hmmm. An alpha list makes it convenient for people to subdivide a page in the course of doing other work on the same page (whether or not the other work is sequential by page. What do you think of entries in alpha order, each preceded on its line by a time stamp (~~~~~, that's five tildes) to aid the alternate approach of looking for repeatedly neglected ones? I can also picture multiple lists implemented as a single template, each list showing only the pages added before a certain date; editing the template to remove the sections just subdivided would result in their disappearance from all the versions of the list.
_ _ There should also be a section on the same talk page for talking abt issues of subdivision-produced structure that arise, so new and experienced subdividers can learn broad principles from discussion of specific differences of approach. I flatter myself and the other experienced subdividers with the thot that at least for a while most of the enlightenment will flow from experienced to newer ones, but doubtless at some point
many eyeballs will produce new, better approaches to some aspects of subdivision. Someone (a better documenter than i) should refactor, summarize, and formalize the accumulated wisdom.
_ _ (Those are too many ideas to tackle at once; best to start with a simple list & consider these ideas only if and when they seem likely to address real problems that arise.)
_ _ As to Bennet & Bennett, i have three sets of comments: how i'd have edited the section if i'd taken note of it and given it the time; re
your edit, and looking beyond that edit in a slightly larger context.
_ _ Finally, BTW, since i'd squeezed two levels of populated logical sections into one level of physical sections (having run out of elbow- and head-room), i moved all but the contents of the Benn section (including its descendants) out to new pages, and renamed the page to
List of people by name: Benn. This required pasting from
User:Jerzy/LoPbN Tools#Markup for Revising Links template to
Template talk:List of people Ben Links, editing that talk, and replacement of the entire content of
Template:List of people Ben Links, all of which i will leave beyond the scope of this discussion: i hope to have a new and more editor-friendly scheme for such edits in place later this week. I have a backlog of pages needing subdivision into new pages, resulting from section subdivisions i've done in the last few weeks, and someone, maybe me, will have to finally explain to interested LoPbN editors (potential page subdividers) this process, which previously has been esoteric enuf that i think no one else has attempted it in nearly 3 years. This relates to your comment on
List of people by name: Brown, which didn't make it onto either
User:Jerzy/Argus for LoPbN Templates or an index card with nearly 20 such titles, mostly between Cas-Caz and Gri, all needing splitting. Yes, Brown needs splitting, having both too many sections, and its ToC's deepest level including sections at two successive logical depths.
_ _ Well, not a perfect weekend, but one worth the effort. Hope yours was at least as satisfying.
--
Jerzyâ¢
t
08:25, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Good call, i think. (He sounds familiar, and there's a good chance you were fixing a clerical error by me. Thanks in any case!)
--
Jerzyâ¢
t
19:29, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for
your catch. I'm less surprised that i had completely forgotten abt it, than that i removed one tag and ignored the other. Probably a cautionary tale abt previewing everything. FWIW, i wrote a
note to him at the time (archived w/o response).
--
Jerzyâ¢
t
20:19, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
I see You deleted Gorky Park from the Park disambig. page. Since this link leads to another disambig with five written links, maybe it's notable for the Park page anyway? G®iffen 15:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Hey Chris, how you doing? I recently read about an interesting person and decided to write about her, Sylvia Mendez. Could you look the article over for errors? Thanks. Tony the Marine 22:32, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Sure, I'll look into it. Chris, I nominated Puerto Ricans in World War II for FA since it passed GA and FAC peer review. I wondering if you could take a look at it and maybe tie up any loose ends grammar-wise. Tony the Marine 16:51, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Chris, Tony the Marine recommended me to you as a good proofreader... ;-). I need help with the Betances article. It is quite big, but I'm almost done with it (the only thing remaining to do for it would be a thorough grammar and spell check, as well as attending any request that might come up from those who would evaluate it for GA (or hopefully FA) status. Could you give it a look? Take your time... Demf 14:55, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
There has been a new request to change the name of Counter-insurgency article to Counterinsurgency, I would request that you please comment about this new request here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Counter-insurgency#Requested_move - Signaleer 08:25, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi Chris â thanks for the Barnstar by the way â I've been checking for words mis-scanned from public domain scanned books E.B.1911, Dictionary of Australian Biography etc. and fixing them up. Here's a few erroneous words I've found and corrected:
cornmitted, Constutional, lientenant, ernigrate, Olyrnpic, Bartholmew's and Batholomew's (for Bartholomew's), Parlianient, asssembly, demonstraters, bv (by), falth-healer (faith), charactor, Novernber, publie.
I used Google to search for these words in Wikipedia. â Diverman 04:54, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi Chris, how do we go about fixing up approx. 148 (found by Google) occurrences of Portait and 76 of Potrait to Portrait? Is there an automated or semi-automated method? â Diverman 04:05, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
As you all know, some hacker cracked my password and I have been stripped of my admin powers. I can understand an admin. being blocked, but stripped of his powers without a fair hearing or consensus, I can't. I have stated that I changed my password and would like my powers back, however the chastizing going on in [ [2]] has sadden me. It doesn't matter how many articles you have written, contributions you have made or how many years you have dedicated to making this project a credible one. A hacker, it seems has the power of making people consider you an untrustful person and turning some people in the community against you.
I have never abused of my powers and I have used Wikipedia as a medium to educate others. Yes, I have no regrets about having made so many contributions to the Pedia. I exhort all of my friends here to make sure that their passwords are strong ones so that you will not have to go through what I am going through.
I did promise some of my friends a couple of articles and as a good Marine I will keep my promise. To my friends here, Thank you for your friendship. Tony the Marine 00:22, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
My adminship has been restored and let me tell you, we've got to very careful with our passwords. You know, despite the headache that this caused me, it really made me feel good to know how many friends I have in Wikipedia. The support has been incredible. I can't let my friends here down. Tony the Marine 04:15, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
An article that you have been involved in editing, Omnitopia, has been listed by me for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Omnitopia. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.164.77.105 ( talk • contribs) 05:10, May 9, 2007 (UTC)
Hi, hoping to solicit you from nowhere as an objective third party. You've been chosen purely on the basis of (a) being the last contributor to the WP:MOSDAB talk page, and because the self-penned bio on your user page seems to qualify you as capable enough to offer a contribution.
A couple of months ago an anonymous IP added lowercase I prefix to the I (disambiguation) page, and after a wee look I figured that was an acceptable link. However, another editor has recently removed it, and reverted me when I restored it. The edit summaries at the dab page, [3] plus the conversation at my talk page (and also at his) show the progress of our discussions to date.
I'd like to avoid an endless edit war, but when there's only two users with opposing views, resolution can be difficult. I'm hoping you can help us move towards a solution with a third opinion, although of course no-one has an obligation to treat your word as binding. From my own point of view, if you also think it shouldn't be included I can drop it, but if you're in agreement with me I'll be slightly more inclined to pursue it further.
Obviously you're under no compulsion to get involved in any way. Regards anyhoo, -- DeLarge 11:04, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi. What happened here? Did you get hacked? -- SigPig | SEND - OVER 19:02, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks very much for that. I will. Funny ... the move page gives the opposite impression (I must read it more thoroughly next time). Toodle pip! Roger 19:07, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Hello, this is a message from
an automated bot. A tag has been placed on
Kirsten (given name), by
Koavf, another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be
speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because
Kirsten (given name) fits the criteria for speedy deletion for the following reason:
To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting
Kirsten (given name), please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at
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Kirsten (given name) itself. Feel free to leave a message on the
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Android Mouse Bot 2
00:20, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure I follow you. Are you referring to the references section or to external links within the references section? I'm adding the links due to concerns by editors on the discussion page. — Viriditas | Talk 03:20, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
On this edit of yours: I hadn't been aware that Kurata was ever a given name. But perhaps my memory is going. Could you give me an example? -- Hoary 03:28, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
You wrote:
Chris, to my best knowledge the Zimbo Trio always used the Double bass acoustical instrument, never on the Bass guitar. I had the fortune to watch them live, have several of their albums, and that's the instrument I've always seen. (sorry for my delay in replying) -- AVM 18:07, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
In case you are interested: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography#Sortkey and birth/death categories standardization project. Carcharoth 14:04, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Dear Chris, I misread the sentence with "put" on Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers). So I agree with you. But am I right that we DO include a comma when the date is after the month?
|Correct: ||October 20, 1976
— Xiutwel ♫☺♥♪ (talk) 21:19, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have perfomed a web search with the contents of Smirnov (surname), and it appears to be very similar to another wikipedia page: Smirnov. It is possible that you have accidentally duplicated contents, or made an error while creating the page— you might want to look at the pages and see if that is the case.
This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot 01:18, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that you removed links to the not-yet-written articles Starkey Laboratories and Starkey Hearing Foundation from Starkey (disambiguation page) per WP:DISAMBIG. Is this per the fourth bullet point in "Disambiguation pages" that states the following? "Each bulleted entry should, in almost every case, have exactly one navigable (blue) link; including more than one link can confuse the reader." I could not find a guideline against inclusion against such links in the immediately following section, "What not to include," so I assume you made this change per this point.
It could be argued that the removed topics are more notable than some that are currently listed (and, admittedly, that an article should exist for them; I may take that on at some point). It would seem helpful to list them here for people who may be looking for them on Wikipedia, to make it clear that they're in the right place but that the articles do not yet exist, as opposed to making them wonder whether they misspelled the topic they were interested in reading about. But, does WP:DISAMBIG trump this concern? You seem to have given this a lot of thought, so I look forward to hearing what you think. Thanks. Edurant 22:16, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Oops! Thanks for pointing that out. If you see me make mistakes like that in future, drop a note on my talk page. I'm more likely to notice that way. I'll try and check the other surname pages I created. Carcharoth 14:42, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
"The attacks of September 11, 2001 are the most serious..." is just as ungrammatical as "The attacks of 11 September 2001, are the most serious...". We should encourage neither.
I have adjusted to state the bare facts of the problem. I think it foolish to sacrifice grammar to the faults of our software; but others may differ. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:40, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Did you take the time to read what you reverted? It contained no instruction except the true statement that not linking such dates would avoid the question, which I considered a helpful (and not, of course mandatory) suggestion. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:59, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Please don't canvass. See WP:CANVAS for more information. -- Core desat 22:41, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
I wouldn't say it was canvassing, but I had no idea what you were trying to promote in that message. If you want to draw attention to the discussion, a one-sentence pointer would suffice. I couldn't tell if your post was sarcasm, or mock sarcasm. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 23:29, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Originally posted to Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals):
Don't you think we're being punished enough just by having to use the damn system? ☺ And mandating metric-only for non-U.S. Wikipedia articles won't help much. NASA lost the US$328 million Mars Climate Orbiter at least partly because of an English/metric confusion, when even American scientific enterprises use metric exclusively, yet the recent Endeavour landing was called off in nautical miles and thousands of feet in altitude. Businesses who quite reasonably don't want to replace all their English-measured capital equipment stoke the silly but pervasive fears Americans have of "conversion"; the government has virtually no power or motivation to change this. (Why convert anyway? I challenge anyone to use their hands to show me precisely four inches instead of precisely 10 cm. Blank out the MPH part of a standard speedometer, and it won't take long for a lifelong English-unit user to get used to metric speeds, especially given the uneven enforcement of speed laws in most jurisdictions.) It's an absurd uphill battle, but Wikipedia isn't in the business of fomenting social change, however useful it would be for everyone (especially us Yanks!). ~ Jeff Q (talk) 01:49, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Unless you can provide at least spome reference to your edits, It's rather a sandbox than a serious edit. Get some expirience before getting into disputed disambigs. Best wishes.-- Lokyz 20:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
<Please explain why you reverted my edits. This should not be marked as a disambig page. Per MoS:DP, "Pages only listing persons with certain given names or surnames who are not widely known by these parts of their name otherwise are not disambiguation pages". Unless you can explain your objection, I will correct the page. Here's a hint on courtesy: when reverting a good-faith edit, put some explanation in the edit summary. Chris the speller 04:20, 2 September 2007 (UTC)>
But you seem to be extraordinarily attached to this one small bit of the procedures, whereas I don't feel strongly about it at all, mostly because it is such a very small bit of the procedures and makes little sense, so by all means trot along and put your edit back. Better still, I'll do it for you - how's that for courtesy? HeartofaDog 11:40, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your help, I've understood my mistakes. 16@r 05:57, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Just dropping by to see how a my good friend is doing. Tony the Marine 03:04, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi, when you changed the chronology section, the edit summary said you were disambiguating Roper, but you just removed the square brackets from Roper. A proper disambiguation would be more like this: [[Roper (appliances)|Roper]]... which gives Roper as the result. If you were doing this with automation, you may want to check your code. Hope that helps, happy editing! ++ Lar: t/ c 14:18, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Please allow me to clear this up. Veneziano literally means "of Venice" or "from Venice" or "the Venetian" - thus it is not so much a surname as a nickname given to people of Venetian origin. However, if you wish to have an entry on the surname that excludes other uses of the term that people might look for on a disambiguation page, you may have your cake and eat it too. I'll move the entry to Veneziano (surname) and set up a proper disambiguation page for other meanings. Cheers! bd2412 T 02:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Would you have time to look at Aaron (name)? I added some extra surname to it, and I think it may need splitting into given name and surname dab pages, but I not sure, so I thought I'd ask you. I found the Aarons by looking at Category:Living people, which is fairly well sorted. I'm currently wondering whether to make another big push to get a supercategory set up for all people articles (dead ones as well as living), as the use of DEFAULTSORT seems to be fairly widespread now, so such a supercategory would really help with keeping dab pages up to date (similar in a way to how List of People by Name used to try and do this). Did I ever show you User:Carcharoth/List of living people compact index? It doesn't do anything the category system doesn't do already, but I think it would be nice to be able to do this for all people articles. Of course, getting an automated list would be even better. I wonder if the disambiguation templates should include a search link to encourage people to update them? At the moment, the special prefixindex function will find all pages starting with a particular string, but what would be even better is if a page could be automatically generated to show all articles with the same surname in their DEFAULTSORT magicword! Of course, people would still be needed to annotate the dab pages, unless infobox information could be used to do that... Sorry to bounce these ideas off you. Do any of tehm sound feasible or worth the effort of finding people who could make them work? Carcharoth 05:15, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
I asked a question regarding hatnotes over all tags and thought you could take part in answering it. Lord Sesshomaru ( talk • edits) 08:46, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Chris! Could you, please, take a look at the Fyodor page? I used to work on disambiguation pages quite a bit, but I kind of lost track of the most recent developments due to lack of time, so I am not entirely sure exactly how the dab/first name collisions are supposed to be handled now (MOSDAB hasn't exactly become any clearer on this subject since the last time I consulted it). If you could just clean Fyodor up as you normally do with such pages, I'd have an example to follow (and possibly questions to ask :)). This is not at all urgent, however. Thanks much!— Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • ( yo?); 21:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Thank you Chris the speller for directing me and being so kind. Shall we work together as I need a mentor and I have already done a lot of mess. I love billiard and I have coached many italian nationals and I work at Deutsche as a hobby but my main interest is nice girls Art, Disco Music but I still need some directions being very lazy..Wish you a good day Olivier Doria. I would be very honoured if you contacted me but I bet you can't find my e-mail (but the bet is 1 good beer or pasta) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oliver doria ( talk • contribs) 20:58, June 24, 2007
"It does not help to add disambig or hndis tags where the page only contains people who share a surname."
Well yes, I agree, but this page does not only "contain people who share a surname" ...
So, I'm not altogether sure I agree with your statement "It's a surname article, not a disambig page" ...
(However, I'm not about to "die in a ditch" either opposing your POV, or supporting my POV! ;-) )
Cheers,
Pdfpdf
07:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
I think we must be talking at cross purposes; i.e. I think you think I'm saying something completely different from what I think I'm trying to say.
What I was saying is: "It seems to me that this is (still) a 'disambig page', because (in the 'See also' section) it contains stuff about things other than people."
It doesn't bother me that you've changed it to a 'surname page'. I am just a little confused as to why you changed it. I hope that helps explain "what I didn't agree with". In any and all cases, I'm quite comfortable with the page as it is at the moment, and happy to leave it as it is. Cheers, Pdfpdf 17:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Hope this helps - It certainly does. (Also, I now understand your previous reply!!) Thank you for going to so much effort to enlighten me. Most appreciated. Regards, Pdfpdf 18:20, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
I've been thinking. (No rude comments thank you, no matter how justified the comments may be ... )
There are several "hndis" situations within the
Fairbairn page.
Andrew Fairbairn is a particularly good example because that page/list contains two entries, whereas the
Fairbairn page/list only contains one of the Andrews.
Two questions/comments:
Cheers, Pdfpdf 09:55, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Once again, thanks for the enlightenment. (Your comment The surname pages sometimes start to accumulate every editor's great-uncle raised a chuckle; I'm afraid I may have been guilty of contributing to such situations at one time or another!) Pdfpdf 10:43, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
In Australia, yes. (I can't comment with any reliability on what happens elsewhere.) In fact, it's often shortened too. (i.e. Fair-bn)
Good point. Yes, I agree.
After the sterling effort of your previous replies to my questions, I'm happy to give you credit for whatever you would wish to be credited with!
Australians notice all the syllables, but then tend to shorten some and drop others. Examples:
(We tend to get amused when we hear visitors refer to "you oss-sies", Mel-born, Briss-bain, A-del-aide/Ad-el-aide and Can-berra.)
I think the American expression is "go figure"? Pdfpdf 10:43, 5 November 2007 (UTC)