Well, the Marder image is certainly worth using, and any new refs that are about MSC (most seem to be in the article already). The general background on camouflage and infra-red probably isn't worth using as the articles on those things are I'd guess sufficient now. The table might be worth taking a little further - what is needed, I guess, is not a comparison of wavelengths alone (as for the IR article) but a column on examples of camouflage techniques (eg paint) and applications (eg tanks) that work at each wavelength, don't you think? With refs, if possible...
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
16:09, 6 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Trying again
I've decided to try again to make Cucurbita as good as we can. I'll start by going back over the peer review. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you again for your long support and superb guidance. Best wishes to you on the New Year.
HalfGigtalk13:08, 11 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article
Crystal Palace Dinosaurs you nominated for
GA-status according to the
criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by
Legobot, on behalf of
Rosiestep --
Rosiestep(
talk)16:31, 11 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi Chiswick Chap. I'm done adding suggestions. There aren't any real problems with the article. It should pass easily enough after a few issues are addressed. --
Rosiestep (
talk)
21:38, 11 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Not sure if you can help us or not but we need to know where there is info on uploading photos of books that you have published?
This discussion page has been closed!
[1]Spiritdejoie (
talk)
16:43, 12 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Hallo, I suspected this might happen. Basically, Wikipedia and Commons, though they have different rules, are both bound by copyright, which limits what can be published. The cover of a book, CD, or DVD, for instance, is the copyright of the publisher (and often of the artist involved too). Even if I have bought a book and I take a photograph of its cover, while the photo is mine, the cover image is not, and I can't put the photo on Commons. In the special case where you are the publisher, I think you have to raise a ticket to declare, verifiably, that you are happy to pass the image irrevocably to Commons. To do this, go to
Open-source Ticket Request System and read the instructions carefully -- I think you need the
Wikipedia:Contact us - Licensing page, and you can send in your photo "along with a statement that you own the copyright on it and an agreement to release it under a free license", using the
Wikipedia:Declaration of consent form. It sounds a hassle but is not specially complicated. Basically, a team of specialist volunteers read and check your request, once they get through their queue of work, and if they are satisfied you are the publisher, they'll clear your request; they might need to ask you for proof of identify for this purpose. Hope this helps, all the best --
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
17:10, 12 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Main Page appearance: Crocodilia
This is a note to let the main editors of
Crocodilia know that the article will be appearing as
today's featured article on January 27, 2014. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask
Bencherlite (
talk·contribs). You can view the TFA blurb at
Wikipedia:Today's featured article/January 27, 2014. If it needs tweaking, or if it needs rewording to match improvements to the article between now and its main page appearance, please edit it, following the instructions at
Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. The blurb as it stands now is below:
Crocodilia is an
order of large,
predatory,
semi-aquaticreptiles. They appeared in the Late
Cretaceous, and include
true crocodiles,
alligators,
caimans, and
gharials. Solidly built animals, they have long flattened snouts, eyes, ears, and nostrils at the top of the head and laterally compressed tails. Their skin is thick and covered in scales; they have conical teeth and a powerful bite. They swim well and can move quite rapidly on land. They are found mainly in lowlands in the
tropics, but alligators are also found in the United States (
American alligator pictured) and China. They are largely
carnivorous; some specialise on fish while others have generalised diets. They are typically solitary and
territorial. In some species, females care for their young. Eight species have attacked humans, the largest number of attacks being by the
Nile crocodile. Humans threaten crocodilian populations through hunting and habitat destruction, but farming has reduced unlawful trading in wild skins. They have appeared in art since at least
Ancient Egypt. Tales of
crocodile tears date to the 9th century, repeated by Sir
John Mandeville in 1400 and
William Shakespeare. (Full article...)
I see you are also visiting salamander evolution. There are currently three cladograms in the article which all predate my involvement. Underneath are four references with cryptic A, B and C designations with no indication of what these refer to or which cladogram is sourced from where. What I have been writing on salamander evolution has largely been taken from the
Darren Naish Scientific American blog and agrees pretty well with the first large cladogram. What if I remove the other two for simplicity sake?
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
13:36, 15 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Oh I see, yes, it's more of a mess than it seems at first sight. If we choose just the first one and update it a bit from Naish that would give us a 2013 view. I can see to it.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
15:52, 15 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Hello! I am truly interested in your thoughts on this, as I am just now learning about
Carl Michael Bellman: Do you think his entry on the
List of pen names is perhaps erroneous and should be removed? "Fredman" was not his pen name, correct? If you agree, please let me know, as that would be fine with me; I am doing cleanup on the list now. Cheers.
Prhartcom (
talk)
20:28, 17 January 2014 (UTC)reply
I think that every entry on the list of pen names should be cited to a reliable source. Fredman was an important character, a watchmaker in Bellman's cast of song characters. If he used it, a citation should be easy to find.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
08:43, 18 January 2014 (UTC)reply
I'll remove him from the list then, thanks for your knowledge, and yes, the
List of pen names article needs someone to add RS. I happened across it and decided to copy edit it, which was a tremendously difficult job itself, but I haven't committed to researching RS for it. Cheers.
Prhartcom (
talk)
20:46, 19 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Sounds right to me. Thanks for your efforts, it still amazes me how people slot into such a variety of different roles here, all for no pay! All the best,
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
07:36, 20 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Point
Why mesopotamia astrology is dated as first? When none of the sources regarded them to be that old either. You should provide the source if you know. BTW, its
India who has probably the oldest making of Astrology, dating back to 2500 BCE easily.
Bladesmulti (
talk)
08:06, 22 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Thankyou. I actually resisted the GA reviewer's suggestion to remove all citations from the lead, on the grounds that readers would challenge the lead whatever the text said... so I do feel somewhat vindicated. The article's body already gives dates for Mesopotamian (inc. Babylonian) astrology. On Indian astrology, we know that it is derived from 'Western' astrology, so its age cannot be 2500 BCE; of course, if you know of scholarly sources that contradict this received understanding, feel free to supply them. I'll consider whether the lead should be even more fully cited - this is unusual, but of course the topic does require special measures, so it's worth thinking about. All the best,
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
08:11, 22 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Wasn't actually derived. Only one source pushes that it was influenced by the greek astrology, but that's it, doesn't deny that the astrology existed much before at all. These
[2],
[3],
[4], are some sources, dating to 2000 - 3100 BCE.
Bladesmulti (
talk)
08:14, 22 January 2014 (UTC)reply
We can't edit the article in real time, this is a long-standing issue and the article's consensus has taken years (I mean it) to build up. I've explained on your talk page why this won't do. Thank you for the sources, I will consider them in due course - I am rather busy today. However at a quick glance, none of these are scholarly sources, and so none of them can be considered RS for the purposes of a pseudoscience article; scholarly papers such as at JSTOR will be required. Thank you for your understanding.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
08:23, 22 January 2014 (UTC)reply
I know, that's why I added only those who I discovered to be academic. You may review the article, some of the estimates given on the page are really, unknown, other than the page itself.
Bladesmulti (
talk)
08:37, 22 January 2014 (UTC)reply
I'm very glad to hear it. Anything that isn't academic will be removed, and anything that is academic but used to push a point of view without appropriate balance will be edited.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
09:08, 22 January 2014 (UTC)reply
What's wrong with the "misleading" tag. Much of what is referred to pingree is obviously incorrect, since no other scholar talks any misleading like "one can point 360 days with babylonian", given that no babylonian influence ever occurred in whole India, and
Vedas are written before any babylonian.
Bladesmulti (
talk)
09:17, 22 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Since such point is not really claimed by him to be fact either, he only says "one can point", not that "it's infact" or other terms that he used sometimes. Pingree is reliable, but
James R. Lewis is also reliable source, he has been used for this page already, his writings matter as much for this subject. That's how.
Bladesmulti (
talk)
09:25, 22 January 2014 (UTC)reply
I'd say not, the lead has been carefully developed, and reviewed formally, and the dates form an integral and important part of its structure. They also announce that the article has been carefully researched, is serious, accurate, international and historical. These reasons are more than enough to decide they should certainly stay. All the best,
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
13:05, 28 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Consett Iron
George Ainsworth was my great grandfather, so I knew this from family history.
Thank you for that, and I wish you well, it is a pleasure to study one's family history. However, Wikipedia must rely on
verifiable evidence, which means documents that people can consult. These do not have to be online - they can be in a library, but they must be reachable one way or another. All the best,
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
12:24, 22 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Phyllodiscus
You might be interested in this
new article. Its marvellous what animals with no brains can get up to! The main source distinguishes between mimicry and masquerade but I see that wikilinking them both in the article brings the reader to the same destination page.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
10:31, 24 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Yes, I had a look. People try to distinguish these terms, but even separating mimicry and camouflage is not as easy as it looks. Masquerade is certainly a form of mimicry, and its purpose - as with all Batesian mimicry - is to avoid being recognized as something worth attacking, which means that it can be considered a type of camouflage. Do you know what the source meant by making a difference here?
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
10:44, 24 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article
Losh, Wilson and Bell you nominated for
GA-status according to the
criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by
Legobot, on behalf of
Cirt --
Cirt(
talk)05:51, 26 January 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi there, no problem with reverting my edit on
Ironmaster but I'm mystified by your comment that the link to
Abraham Darby I doesn't go where it should. As it so happens, the link in question is superfluous anyway - there is already a link to Abraham Darby I in the previous section (which works fine) so according to
WP:OVERLINK the repeated link should be delinked. Please let me know if you have a problem with that. All the Best,
► Philg88 ◄talk20:44, 6 February 2014 (UTC)reply
It was indeed a mess; C17th link was to #1 so I've made it say so (directly); the 2nd link is to the whole tribe as we've discussed, so it's different, correct, and not overlinking. I've also make the Iron Bridge link direct. Quite a bit of Easter-Egging really. Seems better now.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
15:33, 7 February 2014 (UTC)reply
Thanks for sorting that out, there's one more (non contentious!) edit that I'm about to make then all should be fine and dandy. Remarkable people, the Darbys. Best,
► Philg88 ◄talk16:13, 7 February 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi, appreciate your boldness in moving this content but wonder whether it actually creates a great deal of confusion with the main
Anthropology article - which is very American-centric anyway. How best to fix this? Merge? New sections? There's also a disambig page
Anthropology (disambiguation) that needs tying in. Cheers!
PatHadley (
talk)
21:02, 6 February 2014 (UTC)reply
Urban Agriculture page
Hello! I read your comment regarding the image I uploaded and the need for more content. Last week I added good content for the New York City section. I will have some academic study content soon, regarding recent air and soil quality tests on the farm in the picture. The owners of this farm have been very open to universities preforming studies of various types over the past several years, mainly due to it being the first of this scale. As I am new to Wikipedia, I'd be very thankful for any pointers as to how to gather and post this content. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Andy Sherman (
talk •
contribs)
16:24, 7 February 2014 (UTC)reply
Main Page appearance: Starfish
This is a note to let the main editors of
Starfish know that the article will be appearing as
today's featured article on February 28, 2014. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask
Bencherlite (
talk·contribs). You can view the TFA blurb at
Wikipedia:Today's featured article/February 28, 2014. If it needs tweaking, or if it needs rewording to match improvements to the article between now and its main page appearance, please edit it, following the instructions at
Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. The blurb as it stands now is below:
There are about 1,500 living species of starfish to be found on the seabed in all the world's oceans, from the tropics to subzero polar waters and from the
intertidal zone down to
abyssal depths, 6,000 m (20,000 ft) below the surface. Starfish are among the most familiar of
marine invertebrates. They typically have a central disc and five arms. The upper surface may be smooth, granular or spiny, and is covered with overlapping plates. Many species are brightly coloured in shades of red or orange, while others are blue, grey or brown. Starfish have
tube feet operated by a
hydraulic system and a mouth at the centre of the lower surface. They have complex life cycles and can reproduce both sexually and
asexually. Most can regenerate damaged parts or lost arms and they can shed arms as a means of defence. Starfish such as the
ochre sea star and the
reef sea star have become widely known as examples of the
keystone species concept in ecology. With their appealing symmetrical shape, starfish are found in literature, legend and popular culture. They are sometimes collected as curios, used in design or as logos, and in some cultures, despite possible toxicity, they are eaten. (Full article...)
Thank you for the kind thought. While editing as a registered user I was wisely advised by an experienced editor that I needed to work out a survival strategy. For better or worse, mine has been to ip... Cheers,
86.173.146.3 (
talk)
09:53, 16 February 2014 (UTC)reply
Good catch
here. Actually, I think
either spelling is correct in British English, but this is fine. It's a surprisingly undeveloped article for such an important and easily researchable subject. --
John (
talk)
16:37, 20 February 2014 (UTC)reply
Thanks, yes. The article has probably suffered from its neighbours, Structural coloration and Thin-film interference, which have perhaps, um, interfered with its development. I wondered about a merge but there isn't really a merge target here - S.c. is about the structures and T.f.i. is about the mathematical physics. All the best,
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
16:45, 20 February 2014 (UTC)reply
The article will be discussed at
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/MarketInvoice until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.
Jojalozzo04:54, 24 February 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article
Hugh B. Cott you nominated for
GA-status according to the
criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by
Legobot, on behalf of
Seabuckthorn --
Seabuckthorn(
talk)23:11, 26 February 2014 (UTC)reply
Hello Chiswick, You're right: a portrait of le mime Séverin doesn't belong in the info-box in the Guirand de Scévola article. I've also asked www.askart.com to rectify the identification. I would suggest instead a photograph of the artist in his atelier, published on the cover of the Revue Illustrée, No. 23, 15 November 1903 (this copy from my collection). I'm not an experienced Wikipedia editor, I confess, so I would appreciate your help with uploading. I could send you a photo of the cover and one of portrait fragment. But how can I send you these? Thanks! Kind regards, Rik
Rwa073 (
talk)
09:04, 5 March 2014 (UTC)reply
Hello, who you like to help me bring
Tiger to GA? I think its already well built but needs some cleaning up and maybe more bit of information here and there. I have no intention of submitting it for FAC.
LittleJerry (
talk)
00:22, 24 March 2014 (UTC)reply
Before I got 'reviewed' status I found I had to be ultra-careful to avoid instant hassle; with it, the problem actually hasn't occurred at all, though clearly it's always possible when someone gets over-vigilant. It's much like an immune system which has to be able to clobber intruders powerfully; there's always a risk of needless allergy, or autoimmune reaction. Very hard to design a system which never fails.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
13:59, 29 March 2014 (UTC)reply
Possibly, but I don't feel there's much of a gap there. I've cut down on the Indian man-eater stuff; if anything, India is over-represented.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
18:53, 29 March 2014 (UTC)reply
I see the referencing is being criticised and I will work on this now before the reference numbers mentioned in the review become inaccurate.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
09:29, 3 April 2014 (UTC)reply
I think the reviewer is going way beyond the GA criteria in this review. For example, I do not consider that the fact that it is a high-importance, much-visited page is relevant to the review. Also, I am reluctant to spend too much time rootling through the references to try to find better sources because I believe the reviewer intends to fail the nomination despite our efforts at improvement. I believe there is an appeal process if it does fail.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
05:22, 7 April 2014 (UTC)reply
I completely agree. We can a) repeat our view b) tell him failing us on these grounds would be an appeal (hmm) c) ask for a second opinion d) appeal e) resubmit immediately.
I agree that (c) would be best, but BigCat is being helpful and we may get there yet. I'm in no hurry. It's a good scorer for the WikiCup and I already have enough points this round!
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
18:22, 7 April 2014 (UTC)reply
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*''[http://www.giffordlectures.org/Browse.asp?PubID=TPEMEV&Cover=TRUE Emergent evolution]''. (1923). Henry Holt.
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Carl Michael Bellman, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page
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Thank you for your comments on
batik, your suggestions is greatly appreciated and I will carry it out as soon as possible. However, I do have some questions:
I suppose the gallery is indeed uncommonly large. However, considering batik patterns are small and intricate and larger image are better to illustrate such patterns, is it still tolerable?
Try adding captions, and we can see.
I thought up of the same thing when I saw the table of patterns. However, I don't know where to get such pictures without the hassle of copyright.
Try asking one of the museums? Take photos in a museum, in a kraton, in a Batik factory?
Most famous patterns are readily recognizable when I asked people, but they cannot refer a book or such for citation, they just know. Should I just put in what I know?
Added captions to the pictures as well as the pronunciation and old spelling of canting. Regarding your suggestion of a table illustrating famous patterns, would it be ok if I put it in a new section called Terminology and Patterns?
Not sure about the title, why not call it 'Patterns'?
That image would indeed be useful; it needs to be discussed and explained in the main text. Why not in a 'Terminology' section? Can't see why that belongs with patterns really.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
08:55, 27 April 2014 (UTC)reply
I think the lead image is not very good (it is a dull photo of a museum display with a lot of irrelevant space, and we can't read the text) - the Ketalan woman doing batik might be better, but I wonder if we should not simply have a nice big square of a traditional batik?
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
08:59, 27 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Formal Batik Sarongs worn by guards at Sultan's Parade, Yogyakarta
Batik sarong worn by female hat seller, Yogkakarta
Formal Batik Sarong worn by guard with sword at Sultan's Palace,Yogyakarta
Batik craftswomen in Java handmarking resist on batik tulis cloth with tjantings
Printing wax-resin resist for Batik with a Tjap, Yogyakarta, 1996
Selection of Tjap printing blocks with traditional Batik patterns
Worker printing resist on to Batik cloth with a Tjap
Batik sarongs in traditional theatre, Solo, Java, 1996
Technique, term, and modern batik
Thank you. I will use it as soon as possible. Meanwhile, I've added the terminology section and add pictures to the table. Are there anything else to improve beside expanding the technique section?
Alteaven (
talk)
23:00, 27 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Your question may take some answering, and I doubt that rushing to finish will lead to the best result: you can of course check the different criteria in the GA table for yourself. You can also ask yourself, does this cover all the main aspects of the topic? One point to consider is whether the article is too Java-centric; modern batik is perhaps worldwide, and not based on traditional patterns. I think you'll find that batik is alive and well in Bali today, being used without a tjanting or tjap anywhere in sight, to make dramatic cloth-paintings for art galleries and tourists. It might also be worth having a paragraph or short section on the place of batik within the worldwide family of resist-dyeing, for example the use of thread-wrapping resist in
ikat in Java and Nusatenggara, overlapping the geographic range of batik, and of tie-dyeing whole cloths for turbans and other uses in
Rajasthan, India.
The article is already visibly better, and it is starting to feel like a well-written candidate. However, there still appear to be some uncited claims, and I suspect the lead needs to be extended (not least to cover recent additions) - it should summarize all the contents of the article in 3-4 paragraphs. I may do some copy-editing later, and will then consider what else may need to be done.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
04:05, 28 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Oh okay, sorry. This is my first time nominating, and I though that the process must be swift. I'll take my time then.
Being timely is good, and necessary; being hasty is not. And (a word to the wise) - it's rarely a good move to start arguing with GA reviewers, few of them like it: at best, it will slow you down.
Apologies if I've made the impression of arguing. Rest assured, I'm just being inquisitive and or likely confused.
And I don't understand, if you're suggesting to include Ikat and such, then it would be off-topic. Ikat is not a subtype of batik and the two are unrelated. Also, it should be noted that the UNESCO recognition is to the batik's technique and pattern. In Indonesia, if a cloth is made with batik technique but with significantly differing pattern from pakem ('general consensus' or 'traditional method which are deemed most suitable', the translation is a bit tricky), it would not be referred as batik. Similarly, a shirt printed with batik patterns is not called batik but batik-patterned. Therefore, the term should refer to cloth made with wax-resist dye method drawn with certain patterns. The term should not refer to wax-resist dyeing in general, because I think it's misleading and there is already a separate article for it, nor to refer thread-wrapping resist because batik is wax-resist.
Alteaven (
talk)
11:03, 28 April 2014 (UTC)reply
The term does not refer to all wax-resist dyeing, nor did I say it did. I suggest(ed) you distinguish batik from ikat and tie-dyeing to show that it is different, this should take a short paragraph, with useful wikilinks in there (much better than a 'See also' section). This is not straying off topic, it is defining what the boundary of the topic is by reference to what is just across that boundary. Ikat is not unrelated, it is exactly another 1) traditional, 2) Indonesian, 3) handcrafted 4) cloth-patterning method which differs in just one way from batik - it wraps threads rather than placing resist on whole cloth: it could hardly be more closely related without actually being batik, which it clearly is not.
With no disrespect, I'd like to add that ikat quite differs from batik that 1) Although both are Indonesian, they are made and fostered by different ethnic groups 2) The patterns are different. And as I said previously, the pattern is also a defining trait in traditional batik 3) While the pattern of batik is influenced by many cultures, patterns of ikat are relatively more independent 4) Batik and ikat each are associated with different meanings and consequently they are used in wildly different attires, ceremonies, and ethnic group of Indonesia in their traditional context. I will add what you suggest, but I'd just like to point that out.
I'm more than aware of all that, but I've demonstrated 4 specific points of similarity. The point is not to prove identity - plainly they're different - but to say there is a clear need to explain the boundary.
However I disagree that 'batik' can only be interpreted sensu stricto (sensu UNESCO, perhaps); in practice, people speak of 'modern batik' and I have no doubt you will readily find many references to it. If you want to rename the article to 'UNESCO batik' or 'Batik pakem' that's fine, but if it is to be called 'Batik' then it will not pass GA without discussing the range of non-traditional batiks, including Western ones. You should also describe the tradition and modern batik work of Bali.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
11:56, 28 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Here is a book that names "modern batik": Rita Trefois.
Fascinating Batik - Technique and Practice. Page 44. Lulu, 2010. "The utensils described in the previous chapter can also be used for the modern batik technique. Each practitioner can choose additional instruments for drawing and painting or stamping with wax. It is only important to know that the tool is resisting the hot wax. Natural fibres such as cotton, linen, silk and wool are appropriate for batik." Here is a
School's Modern Batik club. Here is a
modern batik workshop in Bali.
I see, where would you suggest putting the boundary of ikat, and how would it be explained?
What? I just said, ikat lies JUST outside the boundary of batik. If it was any closer it would be batik, which it is not.
Yes I understand. I'm just asking where should I say that ikat is closely related but the not the same and so and so.
Is that what you meant. As I said, create a paragraph or section, you could name it 'Related techniques'.
I'm still rather fazed with this "modern batik". It means that this term can be defined in two ways; as a traditional cloth with certain patterns (where there are certain pakem for the patterns), or as a medium of art where the patterns doesn't matter but rather the technique of using wax, in which modern batik is included. I think this is much like the Indonesian and Malaysian batik controversy, where two rather different things have the same term. In making this article, I was thinking and referring to the former definition. Making a different article for modern batik would be laborious, but equating them would also be misleading. What if it's put in the related technique section? Or should there be an entirely new section?
Alteaven (
talk)
12:37, 28 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Up to you, but it needs to be discussed. Wikipedia must describe the world as it is, not as it should be, nor as you would like it to be. If something called batik is made in Bali, Bukit Mertajam and Birmingham, then Wikipedia must say so. The article should not equate trad. and mod. batik, but describe both of them and say clearly how they differ. Some artists in the west certainly use tjantings, by the way, so they are pretty traditional in method, though I think they use wax not wax-resin (so it's safer and has a lower melting point), but they are quite non-traditional in their designs.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
12:45, 28 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Alright. I'm just writing of what I know here in Java, so forgive me if I'm not aware that batik is also used as a medium of art in the west. Do you know other references?
Alteaven (
talk)
13:23, 28 April 2014 (UTC)reply
It really isn't a GA reviewer's job to do this, but if you google search "batik art supplies" (you could choose USA, Canada, UK for example) you will find plenty; also try "modern batik -forum -blog" and similar searches.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
13:25, 28 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Thank you so much. I'll talk to you again when I have made the appropriate change and the addition to the article. Again, sorry that this talk became so lengthily and if I asked too much questions. Regards,
Alteaven (
talk)
13:33, 28 April 2014 (UTC)reply
No problem. BTW if your Kawung image is a sample of my photo, could you please put a note to that effect (name the source file) on the Commons image page. It wasn't easy to tell if it was or not.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
13:36, 28 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Still expanding the technique section and add modern batik, but I've been thinking. Is it reasonable to add This page mainly talks about Indonesian batik. For a method of dyeing involving wax with the same name, see
wax-resist dyeing in the beginning? I mean, you've said that we should explain the word as it is, and most dictionary defines batik as wax-resist dyeing method but there is already a separate article for it.
Alteaven (
talk)
10:29, 30 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Hmm, but 'Batik' does not redirect or appear in the title of that article. I think you should accept that *SOME* wax-resist techniques are called batik, in particular when they are applied to whole cloth; wax-resist applied to threads is called ikat or thread-wrapping; other methods include stencilling and screen-printing, but none of these are called batik.
The point is, that when people use a tjap, tjanting, or brush to apply wax, and then dye the cloth, they do call that batik, and indeed both of the first two are done in Java - so the Javanese batik is itself not a single technique, is it?
So, the disambiguation approach is not valid here, sorry. Batik is a selection of 2 or more wax-resist dyeing techniques; I think it is fine that Malaysian and Indian brushed-on wax should also be known as batik, and that they are covered in the Batik article. I hope you will also cover the creation of decorative artworks in Bali (presumably for the tourist trade) using Batik techniques. Hope this is clear.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
12:01, 30 April 2014 (UTC)reply
I see. Then what you said is true, that this article is too Java-centric. I mean the history, patterns, popularity, and terminology all talks about Javanese batik and not general batik. The previous approach, using a culture section where Indonesia, India, etc each would be assigned to, is more appropriate. However if so, then that section of Indonesia would be significantly longer than other batiks because the history etc would be moved there. Is that alright?
Alteaven (
talk)
12:49, 30 April 2014 (UTC)reply
My first nomination passed! Thank you so much for your help (and patience dealing with my rambles). I'll look forward to make more articles and to look for that book, if time permits. Thank you again!
Alteaven (
talk)
14:52, 1 May 2014 (UTC)reply
only removed it because it is reported in the next sentence
The next paragraph. It seems to flow very well like this, the opening paragraph summarizing the key facts, then the details following along. I don't think there's anything in policy which says writing has to be made dull: this article has been very well written, and it carries the reader through the facts exceptionally clearly as it is. Wish I'd penned it.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
14:49, 28 April 2014 (UTC)reply
I am glad that got sorted out quickly and that the species of the second image has been identified as Luidia maculata. I might even write an article about it if I am still around to do so. I don't expect you want to weigh in at my editor review where I have summarised the
evidence presented in the review and am asking for independent views? A lot seems to go on behind the scenes in Wikipedia that I knew nothing about.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
05:48, 30 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Glad about the starfish. My view of the entire WP apparatus for investigations, arbitrations, rescindments and palpitations is that it reflects all the weaknesses of human government - politics, dramatic headline lovers, hoodlums who just like a fight, publicity-seekers, red-top tabloid readers and all the rest. The old saying 'if you wrestle with a pig, you'll get dirty' seems as true as ever.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
07:01, 30 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Concerning Pinker's transition from visual cognition to linguistic phenomena
Heya Chiswick. A already provided the link int he GA thread, but figured it couldn't hurt to supply it here as well.
This interview is the best source I know of in which Pinker himself addresses the circumstances of his move into language after his early work in visual cognition. Unfortunately, it contains no reference to Brown. Indeed there seem to be a dearth of information on this relationship in those interviews, print or video, that I've come across. His influence is certainly there -- for example, he is cited generously in Pinker's 1979 paper Formal Models of Language Learning, his first sole-author paper, which he has referenced a number of times as somewhat of a formative event in his academic career in several places -- but as for something that speaks very directly to his mentorship ship and how it influenced his academic interests, I don't know of anything just yet that would suite to our purposes. I'll keep looking though.
Snowtalk01:23, 17 May 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi,
I submitted a picture of my "Siamese" colored skunk to wikipedia and it was published for some time on the skunk information page. On 03/01/2013 @ 0831 hours, you removed my photo from the skunk page. May I ask WHY you removed that photo? Thank you.
Katxox (
talk)
20:58, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
Katlinreply
Hallo. I note some degree of mismatch between the friendly-sounding 'Hi' and the somewhat aggressive tone of your message, complete with use of capitals. However I will attempt to recall what this was all those months ago. I think the edit you mean was on 1 March 2013, when I made the edit comment "rm [remove] inappropriate image for desc [description] of wild species". The image was at the top of the "Physical description" section which encyclopedia readers would clearly expect to describe the species as it exists in the wild, so an image of a domesticated variant was certainly inappropriate in that setting. The article does have a "Domestication" section, but there is already an image of a domesticated skunk in that location, no need for a second image there, so instead of moving the image from "Physical description" I removed it. At this distance in time, this seems an appropriate action in the article's context. I am sorry if you are attached to the image; it of course remains on Commons, where you are free to construct a gallery page of skunk images, wild or domesticated; such a page can be linked from a Wikipedia page. With best regards,
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
08:03, 21 May 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi again, I did not inflict nor intend any aggression as per your interpretation. Yes, the edit was on 03/01/2013 as I stated. I am still confused as to why the image was removed as the skunk search results page does not appear to be a dedicated page to the "wild" skunk. My photo was located under the "Physical description", but nowhere under that "Physical description", as on the entire page, does that description refer to a wild skunk. I do see that there is an image of a "domesticated" skunk under the domestication heading. Could my photo not have been moved to that location instead of being removed from the page entirely? Or have been added to the "Skunks as pets" searchable article? There is no physical difference in a domesticated, black and white, striped skunk, as pictured, as there is in the "wild" born, black and white, striped skunk and is redundant to the photo shown under the skunk main heading. My photo certainly added an interesting, visual presentation for readers interested in learning about skunks. I respectfully request that my photo be restored to the skunk page. Thank you so much for your time. Sincerely, Katxox
Katxox (
talk)
14:32, 21 May 2014 (UTC)reply
Glad to hear it. As I said, the article already includes a domesticated image (captioned 'A domesticated skunk') next to the domesticated skunk section, so while the article is not exclusively about the animal in the wild that slot is filled - the section is brief and adequately illustrated with one image. Were the section to be longer with a cited account of variant domesticated patterns or something, then there could be room for further images. I am sure that a species description at the head of an article should describe the species as it appears in the wild. The right place for a gallery of images is however on Commons, where there is ample space for good images of animals, and descriptions can be added. Why not take a quick look at
Dog (on Commons) to see what can be done - there is a wealth of attractive and well-classified images there, organized into groups, including what are presumably many people's pets. I just tried a search on Skunk there, and it gave me
Mephitis mephitis (Skunk) where you can certainly add more images, illustrations, and maps, with new subsections if you want. All the best,
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
15:15, 21 May 2014 (UTC)reply
Local Nature Reserves
Thanks for your contributions to
List of Local Nature Reserves in Greater London. I deleted Ickenham Marshes because, unlike many of the LWT reserves, it is not on the Natural England list at
[6]. (There are some errors in the list, but I have not seen any evidence that Ickenham Marshes has been designated.) I have taken more photos today, which I will upload in the next few days, and I think there is only one left to do, Ruislip LNR, which is part of the National Nature Reserve. Is there any chance you could photo this? There is a map at
[7]. Thanks if you can help.
Dudley Miles (
talk)
21:02, 21 May 2014 (UTC)reply
Regarding my edit of the Sofia Helin article.
This was not some sort of test. It was ment to correct the placement of Helin's birthplace. In my reading the current sentence states that Helin was born in Hovsta (a "village", my note) in Närke (a "landskap", my note) which in turn is situated in Örebro (a city or municipality, swedish "kommun", my note), i.e. Hovsta is the smallest entity and is situated in the larger entity Närke which in turn is situated in the largest entity Örebro.
This is not correct. Hovsta is situated in (is a part of) Örebro (a city or possibly municipality). Örebro in turn is situated in the "landskap" Närke, a historical way of dividing Sweden. Örebro is also situated in Örebro län (possibly similar to a county), a modern political division of Sweden.
Närke can never be part of Örebro län, these are different ways of dividing Sweden but at the same level.
So the correction I made was based on my reading of the text, as explained earlier, and was made to make sure that the entities are placed in the correct order: Hovsta is situated in Örebro and Örebro is situated in Närke ( or in Örebro län if you prefer).
And how do I know this. I am a Swede. I have lived in Örebro in Närke, Sweden.
Please let me know if I have misunderstood the sentence in the Sofia Helin article.
Ok, I'm sure you made the edit in good faith, and I presume you are probably correct. However, neither I nor any other reader knows that until you have proved it. Normally this requires written evidence; I have your word that you know and have lived there, but have no way of verifying you really did: this is why Wikipedia asks for written evidence, in principle for every fact or claim added.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
21:31, 26 May 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article
Natural History (Pliny) you nominated for
GA-status according to the
criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by
Legobot, on behalf of
Tim riley --
Tim riley (
talk)
00:32, 27 May 2014 (UTC)reply
Before that relentlessly breezy bot shoves its oar in again, permit me, as a human being, to offer congratulations on the promotion of this fine article. Tim riley talk13:02, 28 May 2014 (UTC)reply
'In all likelihood' is just a more pompous way of saying 'probably'. If you can define the difference in meaning, I would be interested in hearing it.
Valetude (
talk)
21:52, 29 May 2014 (UTC)reply
I don't think that's so, though at first blush it sounds rather like it. Probably means that there is, in fact, a high probability, say 90% or something, that the event occurred, given rather strongly suggestive evidence in favour. In all likelihood is hard to attach to any given probability, but the way things were, perhaps circumstantially and given the character of the people involved, onlookers just have the feeling that that's what they would have done, and so they're prepared to take a chance on the matter and indicate that outcome 'in all likelihood'. It isn't the same as probably at all.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
08:17, 30 May 2014 (UTC)reply
I think there is no doubt that tigers have attacked wild elephants, if that's the question. This is attested to by all kinds of source that one might expect, from travellers' anecdotes and hunters' tales upwards, including paintings and sculptures indeed. Worker elephants, especially with mahouts and so on on their backs, must look different and especially threatening (and taller, something that easily puts lions off - small boys in Africa hold sticks above their heads to look taller when lions approach), so if tigers even attack those, we can be sure that unadorned elephants form part of their normal prey. We know, by the way, that there are prides of lions in Africa that specialize in elephants; it is quite possible that some (family?) groups of tigers used to specialize similarly, but with today's greatly reduced numbers of both species, such specialism would have to be rare today. I am sorry to hear you have been unwell: I wish you a speedy recovery. All the best,
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
06:37, 4 June 2014 (UTC)reply
I checked. In his will, he requested that a 1/3 of the paintings IN HIS STUDIO were destroyed, not 1/3 of the paintings in his estate. This was presumably to weed works in progress etc from his heritage. I'm making the correction.
SeagoComment (
talk •
contribs)
07:26, 20 June 2014 (UTC)reply
Yes, I can do that. It is however now the holiday season, and my availability will be rather limited or intermittent for a while. I expect I'll focus on the 'human aspects'. Curious about the word 'last' - are you meaning this will be your final FAC?
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
03:23, 21 June 2014 (UTC)reply
Yeah. I expect to get started in early July. I have MacDonald's "Encyclopedia of Mammals" and plan to get "Rodent Societies" and "Biology of Small Mammals".
LittleJerry (
talk)
13:56, 21 June 2014 (UTC)reply
OK, well, it'll be good to work together this time then. I've made a start with a cladogram, and am organizing the Human section. I'll add a few mentions in "beast-fable" (as Tolkien calls it). After that I will be more off than on for a while.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
14:01, 21 June 2014 (UTC)reply
I think when it comes to large diverse groups, cultural references are unnecessary and problematic (see also
Primate and
Amphibian). We should instead have a conservation/management section. I also think the other sections should be bigger but I know you're still working on them.
LittleJerry (
talk)
18:22, 21 June 2014 (UTC)reply
I see the point, but it's certainly debatable: man *does* have literature, folk tales and legends about some of these animals; there are certainly Latin American tales about agoutis and capybaras, as well as Western ones about rats and mice. I shall be away shortly so I expect someone else will write the conservation bit.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
19:08, 21 June 2014 (UTC)reply
I think the rest of the article should be rewritten and reorganized. When you're ready I could post a game plan suggesting how the article should be organized. For now, work on the human relations section.
LittleJerry (
talk)
19:39, 21 June 2014 (UTC)reply
It certainly needs reorganized; much of what is there is usable, shame to waste it, but when rearranged the gaps will become clear. As I'll not be editing till Thurs at earliest, I suggest you post your game plan when you're ready.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
19:55, 21 June 2014 (UTC)reply
I have been working on a draft section on
Social behavior. I am not very happy with it. I started with the last paragraph on kin recognition and went on to provide the examples of different forms of social organisation that are now in earlier paragraphs. I think it lacks coherency. What do you think?
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
10:42, 1 July 2014 (UTC)reply
@
Cwmhiraeth: Interesting. I guess I agree with you that it comes across as a series of scattergun examples, leaving the reader with the feeling that they don't know what the general situation in rodents is.
I think therefore that what is needed is a source that boldly generalizes on rodent sociality. The first sentence needs to talk about 'behavior' rather than 'structures' (I never heard that term during 3 years of a biology degree, maybe it's today's jargon), and then go on to discuss the sociality of rodents as a group before moving on to examples. The examples could then be worked in gradually, something along the lines of "Many species of rodent in different families, including the rats, beavers, and ground squirrels, are social. .....(more bold generalizations, citations........ Among the most social of rodents are ground squirrels, which typically form colonies based on female kinship...." Something like that.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
11:06, 1 July 2014 (UTC)reply
Please read and understand
WP:HYPHEN before undoing edits that other people make to hyphenation to get articles to conform to Wikipedia's guidelines. WP:HYPHEN says "A hyphen is not used after a standard -ly adverb (a newly available home, a wholly owned subsidiary)". Two such standard -ly adverbs are "rapidly" and "previously"; "leafily" would be another if such a word existed.
Christhe spelleryack05:14, 21 June 2014 (UTC)reply
I did read exactly the sections you indicated before replying and undoing, and formed the judgement that the statements there did not mandate the changes you made, though they permit something like them under certain circumstances. Perhaps your personal approach to the implementation of HYPHEN is systematically incorrect, since as written HYPHEN is not unreasonable.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
07:54, 21 June 2014 (UTC)reply
your recent edit
Hi, Chiswick Chap;
I noticed a few edits you have made, recently, to
Bibliotheca historica... all very good ones too. I thought of disambiguating the Persian Gulf some months ago, however, it would appear that the "Arabian Gulf" mentioned in that article refers to the
Red Sea. I do not know this for sure, but am guessing, as the chapter is on North Africa. Do you know specifically?
thanks,
Kamran the Great (
talk)
08:42, 28 June 2014 (UTC)reply
No idea, and the thought never crossed my mind, I just followed the source. If you find a source which clarifies the matter, feel free to correct and reference it.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
08:44, 28 June 2014 (UTC)reply
That's wrong, Book III is perfectly clear that mariners can sail from the Red Sea as far as the Arabian Gulf, and go through the straits (of Hormuz). The places are certainly different.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
04:29, 1 July 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi, and hope you're well and doing bugs as usual. I think that bugguide.net is basically a forum, so it's a bit of a doubtful source, might not always be reliable, though I expect people do their best: probably best used for information, and backed up with more reliable sources where possible. You know the score on copying information: you can always use facts as long as you cite them, but you should always put things in your own words. With data like a list of countries, there's obviously not a lot you can do to change the wording, so it's generally ok to copy those, adding your own words wherever you can, and using your own formatting.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
21:09, 28 June 2014 (UTC)reply
Victory Garden
No, the problem is that what you reverted is a file name with a typo; the image itself is called "Where the Nazi's sowed death...". If you change it that way, you get a red link instead of the image itself. If you have no objections I'll revert the page in a moment.
Altamel (
talk)
04:30, 1 July 2014 (UTC)reply
Hello CC. Sorry to have reverted your edit to this article. We had a short discussion in which those interested agreed that the lead was too long. Please make your argument for lengthening it again on the Talk page.
Myrvin (
talk)
08:59, 1 July 2014 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the very polite notification! I'll go and see if talking seems worthwhile here - I have noticed in other articles that people often imagine that a lead should be very short, rather than 4 paragraphs proportioned to the article's length. In fact, understanding of the lead's role is generally quite limited, so I'll be curious to see what's going on here. Thanks again,
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
10:37, 1 July 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi CC, the illustration of an average face that I think would be suitable for the
Koinophilia article can be found on
[8]. I am currently corresponding with the author of that website to see whether they would be prepared for that striking illustration to be published on Wikipedia. If I do get permission would you be prepared to upload that image, with suitable acknowledgements etc.? as I am a bit at sea on exactly how this ought to be done?
Oggmus (
talk)
15:47, 5 July 2014 (UTC)reply
Finding an illustration of an average face for the
Koinophilia article
I have put my latest comments on the koinophilia talk page. Basically I have been unable to contact the person who I think has the perfect illustration to ask whether they would be willing to upload the image on their website on to the Wikimedia Commons
Oggmus (
talk)
13:40, 18 July 2014 (UTC)reply
What is "ce" means? i saw it when you edited the
Oceanography article in the editing description. I'm an indonesian user aiming at improving the same article in indonesian language. So, I visited the
Oceanography article a lot. Could you tell me what's that means?
(a passing page-stalker!) Usually "ce" is used on the wiki as shorthand for
copyediting - improving the flow and readability of the text, without changing its meaning.
Hchc2009 (
talk)
16:50, 2 August 2014 (UTC)reply
Classification of rodents
@
LittleJerry: Do you or LittleJerry want to do a few paragraphs on the history of rodent classification or shall I? I have just received access to JSTOR which is going to be very useful in general, and
this article should be useful in this instance. I don't want to duplicate effort as happened yesterday when I edit conflicted with you on the "Uses" section.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
05:13, 10 August 2014 (UTC)reply
@
Cwmhiraeth: Edit conflicts are unavoidable given the system, and while a bit of a pain they are rarely harmful (only during heated discussions, maybe). But I think we needn't overlap: why don't we collaborate? How say you draft your two/a few paragraphs and then ask me to tweak them? (BTW, Wood 1955 is obviously usable only to indicate how things were seen back in 1955, which I'm sure is what you are intending. I have both JSTOR and Questia.)
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
08:20, 10 August 2014 (UTC)reply
Edit conflicts matter less if one saves frequently. I tend to save infrequently and in this case wrote a paragraph on use of pelts and made several other changes. I did not expect anyone else to be editing the article at 6am and in the event, rescued the paragraph and abandoned the other changes. I will proceed as you suggest on historic classification.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
08:45, 10 August 2014 (UTC)reply
@
Cwmhiraeth: Not sure I have much to say, other than that Tullborg either needs a full name or a bluelink, and that Wood 1955 seems to get pretty short shrift! Maybe he didn't say much worth recording. I suggest we go with it and see how it is received. We can always add a bit more later. Oh, and the Simplicidentata seems to have had shifts of meaning; I doubt it was understood as a clade for its first century of usage.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
14:46, 10 August 2014 (UTC)reply
@
LittleJerry: Thank you both for your cooperation in bringing Rodent to GA. I had a pleasant morning doing the thing I like doing best on Wikipedia (in this case expanding
Silky pocket mouse) but propose to return to the fray and nominate Rodent at FAC. Are you and LittleJerry happy to go ahead jointly with me? Should we invite DrChrissy to join us? Although not as enjoyable as article creation/expansion, I will be happy to do the bulk of the work involved in responding to comments.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
12:37, 12 August 2014 (UTC)reply
I'm not sure when "fall" starts but in any event, I have now nominated the article on the selfish premise that the timing suits me. I invited DrChrissy to join us but he declined.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
08:28, 14 August 2014 (UTC)reply
It sounds as if you won't be around much in the next couple of weeks. It has been suggested at FAC that there should be one or two paragraphs on "Rodents in popular culture". I'll have a go at it in my
userspace but it is very much more your kind of topic than mine. Please add to/amend what I write if you have the opportunity.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
18:18, 17 August 2014 (UTC)reply
Yes, I'm away. I've given you a thing I wrote a while back on mice/rats; it's hard I think to find anything much else (if Brer Rabbit unfortunately no longer counts: though when he was created I think rabbits were considered rodents...). I expect there are S. American tales of Capybaras and Guinea Pigs but I don't know them. All the best,
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
21:48, 17 August 2014 (UTC)reply
Ok, seen. I've no idea whether we should or not, though personally I'd not be inclined to argue; I have little opinion either way, but certainly can't see why the request should be denied: it's not meaningless, though it may be hard to fulfil.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
21:59, 17 August 2014 (UTC)reply
On
15 August 2014, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Rodent, which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that rodents are characterized by their continuously-growing, razor sharp
incisors? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at
Template:Did you know nominations/Rodent. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (
here's how,
live views,
daily totals), and it may be added to
the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the
Did you know talk page.
EEng actually has a COI that should have halted much of his activity on the article.
EEng announced that he co-authored the documents the article uses and works with the principal author cited, Macmillan. I disagree that someone who works with the principal source and publishes their own research is capable of adhering to a NPOV when they cast aspersions on the motives of other academics and go so far as to attack another university. For instance, EEng dismisses a peer (and Macmilan endorsed) review of how the tamping iron was recovered and became violent when Macmillan's published book had a very gross error that I highlighted when I personally obtained and read the copy. He acted as if this defining error does not exist and will not entertain a note for readers who've gone through the trouble of actually consulting the source cited. No offense, but the article is a clear C and far from a GA because of neutrality and other issues that remain unresolved. I am almost certain that the matter should be brought up at
WP:COIN because it has continued and has run alongside EEng's year-long MOS war with no less than half a dozen different editors, a collection of which is present on the article now. I understand EEng does good work, but being able to work with others is important.
ChrisGualtieri (
talk)
19:24, 26 August 2014 (UTC)reply
I hope it can, I'm not one to be mean to other scholars on here. They are quite rare after all. I hope the article gets to GA, I tend to be of the belief that any article I put a significant amount of time and effort in should be able to reach GA because it is an important subject. It is sorta an esoteric subject, but nonetheless, useful.
ChrisGualtieri (
talk)
15:07, 28 August 2014 (UTC)reply
I am unknowledgeable in the matter of images and their authors/licences etc., and my inclination is to replace images with problems rather than try to solve the problems. Do you have access to the original for your cropped beaver dam image? (I wouldn't want to offend you by just removing it!) Also, Crisco suggests there are too many images. Any thoughts?
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
13:35, 29 August 2014 (UTC)reply
There are plenty of people who can help on Commons licensing, they hang around there a lot so probably best to find one to ask. The beaver dam is on Commons, I have made the link more obvious. I've removed the 3 fossil images from the table as well as the Lord How Fantail (uncertain US copyright, unfortunately), seems a pity but so what.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
13:48, 29 August 2014 (UTC)reply
I've fixed a few more image problems, found an author in the Nordisk Familjebok and translated a few words from German on Commons - image stuff involves many dimensions! Most of the rest are "Fine", ping me again if needed.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
14:59, 29 August 2014 (UTC)reply
@
LittleJerry,
Cwmhiraeth: Done some simple fixes. Given the current comments, especially on the palaeontology, we frankly need a rewrite by someone with a bit of expertise in the field: with a reviewer who knows a fair bit about the group, it is no good grabbing random sources and hoping for the best, that just makes more problems. The only way we can do it ourselves is if we can find a recent review paper (a tour of the field by an expert) and paraphrase the key points from that; I've not seen such a paper, but one may exist somewhere. Maybe we could ask around for such a thing? The reviewer also has a bad feeling about the whole article, I think largely unjustifiably, but we do need to check and replace any old or flaky sources. I don't believe we have to use only recent peer-reviewed papers - undergrad textbooks should be ok if recent and properly sourced themselves (ie they're good 2ndry sources) - but we are being challenged across the board on source quality and we have to address that.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
16:10, 27 September 2014 (UTC)reply
LittleJerry has contacted me by email asking me to remove his name as nominator, which I am reluctant to do as he was the person originally suggesting this FAC. Meanwhile I have completed dealing with Ucucha's comments and asked him to clarify which sources he considers unreliable. So we will see what happens next.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
09:25, 1 October 2014 (UTC)reply
@
Cwmhiraeth, ok, I'm not totally surprised. The recent editing has certainly strengthened the article and the sourcing; with scientific articles one has to be suspicious of sources. Old journal papers, general sources and actually just stuff cobbled together by years of random wiki-editing are all risky, to the point where I'd be inclined to start from scratch in any future FAC project. However we have fixed a lot of the issues here, and there's no reason why we shouldn't fix any more that are identified. We could take a proactive approach and check any remaining old or doubtful refs for ourselves, and say we've done so: what do you think about that? The underlying issue is that to most editors, the topic is one of general interest (there's even a pet-shop angle, after all), while to a few people it's an academic and scientific topic. But I think it reads pretty well now.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
09:44, 1 October 2014 (UTC)reply
OK. I'm not so pushed for time now so I suggest that I work through the first 70 sources and leave the remainder to you. I will probably start tomorrow as today I am catching up on things that I have neglected during the stub competition which has now finished.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
09:56, 1 October 2014 (UTC)reply
@
Cwmhiraeth, I've gone through my half. Mostly ok; have fixed half-a-dozen small things (missing parameters and such). 73 Hanson looks a bit flaky and it covers about 5 paragraphs. Hm. 94 Encyclopaedia Britannica - well, not ideal. 96 Wood (1955) is clearly only safe for the historical aspect, which is sort of what it's used for, what do you think. Finally, 99 Honeycutt is actually a serious "timetree" (cladogram) suggesting a late Cretaceous date, wow. I'm not sure how controversial that is - I'd guess that it could be mentioned as a view rather than as a fact.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
13:27, 1 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Well, I have done the first 70+, to 78 Foote actually because I've added some more. Now I look more closely, I see there are some missing page numbers which I will now add. The main change I made was to replace the Animal Diversity Web sources which are written by students for students. Otherwise I was impressed how good most of the sources are. As for Anne Hanson, she has a M.S. and Ph.D. in Animal Behavior and has made a study of rats and I would argue in favour of including her.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
13:04, 2 October 2014 (UTC)reply
@
Cwmhiraeth, super. I've repeated the Hanson ref for each paragraph, and supported it with Galef 2005, that excellent thing a proper review paper, a highly reliable 2ndry source. I agree about the general level of sourcing, it seems pretty much there to me. barring the EB, of course. And still wondering about Wood. Well done with your Canidae, btw. All the best,
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
14:52, 2 October 2014 (UTC)reply
I've replied to Mike Rose and removed some overlinks as he requested. That leaves Mike Christie who said he was waiting on Ucucha before doing another pass. @
Cwmhiraeth, should we ping him?
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
08:26, 9 October 2014 (UTC)reply
I am computerless after a lightning surge. I will not be able to do anything useful till about Thursday. I can't even log on on this computer as it is demanding some sort of keyword password. I am a bell ringer and our church tower was struck by lightning, the old lightning conductor was deemed unsafe and taken down some months ago and before a new one could be put up all sort of paperwork was needed and hadn't been completed at the time of the strike.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
09:53, 11 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Still computerless but at least I now know my daughter's keyword password. My computer and router are being completely replaced and I am hoping the insurance will cover it. Not much action on the rodent front since my last visit.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
08:27, 15 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article
Bird migration you nominated for
GA-status according to the
criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by
Legobot, on behalf of
Cwmhiraeth --
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
10:40, 9 September 2014 (UTC)reply
Of course, I was wondering what had happened, somehow I wasn't automatically pinged. Tree can wait, but it would be satisfying to get it to GA with you. I've replied to your comments. BTW I'm trying to keep an FA contributor sweet, I think he's a bit miffed by being reverted with brief or absent edit comments... let's try to keep everyone happy.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
13:24, 16 September 2014 (UTC)reply
I will round up this GA nomination shortly, meanwhile we have a bit of a setback at the Rodent FAC. I have to go out now so will be unable to respond there till tomorrow.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
18:00, 17 September 2014 (UTC)reply
I have asked DrChrissy if he can help with the evolution/classification aspects which I think are the most difficult. Having considered Ucucha's comments further, I don't think they are insuperable, just difficult.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
08:57, 18 September 2014 (UTC)reply
Thank you for your editing on the monarch butterfly article. It was good, it was right and it was helpful. It only made the article better. I am impressed by your userpage and am flattered that you would take an interest in this article. Best regards,
Thank you for your attention and contribution to the Monarch butterfly migration article. This is a new article and I am still in the middle of expanding the section Population and migratory study methods. I completely understand why you edited to condense this information at this time. I plan on creating the re-creating the sections in the near future with additional information and citations. I have probably have only added about half the information that I have found. It is quite extensive and highly researched. I am awaiting JSTOR access to help me finish off the article with more journal citiations. Bfpage |
leave a message00:50, 17 September 2014 (UTC)reply
OK. Most of what I did was in fact not condensation but reorganisation and formatting, which I doubt you'll wish to undo. On study methods and similar topics, take care to focus on the results - the effects on understanding of migration - and not on scientific teams and their activities. Far too many articles are full of 'science cruft' of the form "A major study team under professor Magnus Bigfellow spent three years carefully investigating the possible impact of changes in ..." which in fact says sweet nothing about the results that readers need to know. Good luck.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
06:15, 17 September 2014 (UTC)reply
Tree
Having had another look at
Tree and seeing how much work you have been doing on it I have had a change of mind, not least because it is such a splendid point-scoring article for the WikiCup. If we nominate it soon for GA it has at least a good chance of being reviewed before the end of October, the end of the last round of the WikiCup. With that in view, I have removed some citation needed tags and propose to expand the Cultivation section. Are you happy with this timescale?
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
10:19, 17 September 2014 (UTC)reply
I have now replaced the uncited Cultivation section with an Ornamental trees section. Do you think there is any more work needed on the article? When we nominate it for GA, I suggest you make the nomination, because I have several nominations there already. I should still be able to claim WikiCup points for it if it is successful as I have done work on the article during 2014 (not mere copyediting).
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
10:49, 20 September 2014 (UTC)reply
OK, lets go then. I have added an opening couple of sentences to the art section, but feel free to change them if you think fit. You might not like the source!
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
12:45, 20 September 2014 (UTC)reply
It looks good. I tweaked one sentence and I added an extra reference for the monocots. Do we really need seven sources for one fact in the first paragraph?
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
13:25, 23 September 2014 (UTC)reply
Since there seems to be more interest by others in the editing of this article I would like to move our communications to the talk page if that is okay with you.
Regards. Bfpage |
leave a message11:32, 19 September 2014 (UTC)reply
...for your informed and thorough review of
language. Plenty of valuable suggestions, including the hints on what might be needed for a possible future FAC. Thank you very much.
Sorry, I just assumed that you had read both volumes. I have just spent the day doing so, so I will correct the links (volume II has nothing to do with this work) and set it up as you did the Latin. --
Michael Goodyear (
talk)
01:21, 30 September 2014 (UTC)reply
Elizabethan and Jacobean melancholia
I'd like to expand the information on
melancholia in Elizabethan and Jacobean England. I have Roy Strong's influential 1964 essay from Apollo magazine (and a couple of more recent scholarly studies supporting it), which traces the origin of late Renaissance melancholy to
Marsilo Ficino. Strong has a great bit which I'd like to quote: "Ficino transformed what had hitherto been regarded as the most calamitous of all the humours into the mark of genius. Small wonder that eventually the attitudes of melancholy soon became an indispensible adjunct to all those with artistic or intellectual pretentions." I'll add some info on symbolism of melancholy in portraiture. I'd also like to replace the current image in the "Cult" section with the early portrait of John Donne (
File:John Donne BBC News.jpg).
I am thinking this info would essentially replace the first paragraph of the "Cult" section as written, which is unsourced. It appears that you've done work on this most recently - do you have any concerns about me making these changes? Thanks. -
PKM (
talk)
02:08, 5 October 2014 (UTC)reply
@
PKM: this sounds good. The section and article are actually quite well-written but with old-style sourcing (i.e. nobody can tell if the "Further reading" was actually used in the article or not), so go ahead. I made only minor edits, btw. All the best,
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
06:50, 5 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article
Tree you nominated for
GA-status according to the
criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by
Legobot, on behalf of
Sainsf --
Sainsf (
talk)
06:01, 5 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Yes, I asked Sainsf if she would take it on. If you would like to continue marking the comments you have dealt with, I propose working on others after 13.00 today so that we can avoid edit conflicts.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
08:48, 5 October 2014 (UTC)reply
(keeping hands off!) @
Cwmhiraeth: Under 'Other uses' I suggest {{further|Resin|Latex|Camphor}}; but I see no reason why we shouldn't lightly overlink here, it's the main place for these topics so it seems silly not to link'em.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
12:41, 5 October 2014 (UTC)reply
That was very satisfactory. I don't imagine you were thinking of taking the article to FA? In my view GA is a more worthwhile objective than FA. And by the way, I enjoy working with you.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
05:14, 6 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Thank you for your help. I suspect this would be a dog at FA and anyway it's nowhere near ready. I'm glad it's arrived at GA this time around, and I'm looking forward to working with you further too.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
06:39, 6 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article
Consett Iron Company you nominated for
GA-status according to the
criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by
Legobot, on behalf of
CorporateM --
CorporateM (
talk)
05:41, 12 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Bovidae
Hi Chiswick Chap, saw your awesome edits here. I am really irregular these days, so your help is certainly a big push! Let me know what you propose for the expansion of the article in the future. Thanks,
Sainsf<^>Talk all words08:54, 12 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Many thanks. I don't have any big plans for the article, but just thought it needed a 'human' section. There is a large amount of material at
Sheep which we could lightly summarize (don't want to be WP:UNDUE); there's more at
Cattle; both articles have sections on Religion, and there's
Cattle in religion too - we should mention Hinduism for the cow, the monotheistic religions for the sheep, at least.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
09:48, 12 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Rodent FAC
Real life keeps intervening; I have obligations for all of tomorrow night and at least part of tonight, but I should be able to get back to it later this week, if I can't make time tonight. Sorry about the delay.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
10:55, 14 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article
Deimatic behaviour you nominated for
GA-status according to the
criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by
Legobot, on behalf of
Cwmhiraeth --
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
09:41, 15 October 2014 (UTC)reply
You removed my small bit about symmetry (do you remember?) and its been suggested I take the matter up here. The very answers (friendly, polite) seem to emphasise that I was right with my insertion, broadly speaking.
Essentially - and I referenced two mathematicians, one a CERN scientist - I said there is a counter-intuitive aspect to symmetry which should be explained. I agreed that perhaps my comment shouldn't have been at the Introduction, tho' even that could be argued.
I would be happy for an expert to tidy up my contribution.
Wikipedia should not be some arcane on-line journal. It should be like a dictionary, accessible to anyone. If a topic has an apparent paradox, this should be explained.
There's a lot about things like the Higgs boson in the intelligent Press. Changes in symmetry are complex and the term Broken Symmetry gets used. It can be simplified for a lay person and that's what I tried to do. No doubt it could have been done much better but I don't think it should simply have been removed without trace.
I'm assuming you know a lot more about this than I do. Seriously. But that might blind you to the difficulty faced by a lay person. Malc
Malc9141 (
talk)
22:02, 18 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi, and welcome to Wikipedia. I'm very much alive to the difficulties faced by new editors. I'm glad you've found tea and sympathy at the Tea House; it is one of several ways that make getting started a little easier. However, there is quite a steep hill to climb. In an established article, and especially in its lead, any addition has to be evaluated in the context. The lead in particular exists to summarize the rest of the article: so, it is never the ideal place to add anything new. Of course, everyone seeing an article that doesn't cover something they feel should be included, thinks to add it 'up front', and it is difficult for them to see it removed promptly. The editor(s) seeing the addition, unsupported by any other mention, and very likely uncited, can at once see that it must go: such is the natural order of things in an encyclopedia. Clearly, if you can find suitable references in
Reliable Sources, then there will likely be a place for something on some such topic, somewhere in the article, or perhaps in a sub-article -- not everything can be covered in a top-level article, which itself is a summary (or should be) of a family of articles.
If you would like a word of advice, it would be to research the area carefully, prepare a draft wording complete with references, and place that on the article's talk page as a proposed addition. Alternatively, prepare it in your own user space (you can create a sub-page from your user page) and ask editors to check it for you. All the best,
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
07:15, 19 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Would you mind moving your comment to a new section? It's a bit lost where you put it and I'm reluctant to reply and start a discussion in the middle of an older section. (I think the first sentence is incomprehensible!)
Peter coxhead (
talk)
21:28, 25 October 2014 (UTC)reply
On
29 October 2014, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Tree, which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the tallest known tree is more than 115 meters tall? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at
Template:Did you know nominations/Tree. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (
here's how,
live views,
daily totals), and it may be added to
the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the
Did you know talk page.
Thank you so much for your work on the
rodent article and for contributing to its
featured article review process. I am a big fan of rodents and am happy to see them well-represented on Wikipedia. It is not often that Wikipedia articles on a major class of animals gets promoted.
Blue Rasberry (talk)17:43, 31 October 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article
Whitley Castle you nominated for
GA-status according to the
criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by
Legobot, on behalf of
Hchc2009 --
Hchc2009 (
talk)
09:22, 1 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Hello Chiswick Chap! It has been quite a while since our paths last intersected. Thanks for bringing
Anatomy up to GA, our project at
WP:ANATOMY is flourishing. If you have time, I have been thinking about creating a sidebar for a series on the
History of anatomy, and I've created a template. If you had time, do you think you'd be able to flesh it out a bit? This is just a draft, isn't displayed to users, and nothing is fixed (headings, image, current entries), and I'd value your input. Cheers, --
Tom (LT) (
talk)
22:17, 2 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Somebody has added a large chunk of information to the article
Barn owl, probably not realising that it is in the delicate final stages of its FAC. I don't like to just delete the new text but I suppose I could remove it and create a new article on "Color polymorphism in barn owls". What do you suggest?
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
18:55, 4 November 2014 (UTC)reply
The B rating for Wikiproject math does not require references; that is reserved for the B+ rating. I added references anyways because I like the article. However, I don't mind adding more references if it is necessary to obtain a consensus on the B rating. I'll add more refs to physics if noone beats me to it.
Brirush (
talk)
14:48, 8 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Well I'm astonished that an article in this state can be deemed to be a B, no matter how narrow a point of view a project may take. It does not consist only of maths, since the topic covers symmetry in the real world, as in physics, biology, architecture, so at the least we need to get the article properly cited in those sections. What is missing on the talk page is clearly a better list of other projects that could rate the article from their points of view, given its hybrid nature. In any case, it is definitely not ready for a GA whatever the math project may think of it, so any assertion of B-ness is academic.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
14:54, 8 November 2014 (UTC)reply
I've considered what you said, and I'd like to work hard to improve the article. I've created a draft proposal on
my sandbox and suggested its use on
Talk:Symmetry. I'd appreciate your feedback, as well as others'. The draft would split off symmetry (geometry) into its own article, leaving only a summary, as well as cleaning up alot of the pseudo-physics.
Brirush (
talk)
13:46, 9 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi. I started editing again yesterday. I made 2 new short articles, started a third, and then
User:Sminthopsis84 asked me if I wanted to help get
Cucurbita to FA. She and
User:CorinneSD are helping. I'd like Sminthopsis84 to get official credit for it. I was wondering if you could help too. I guess some sort of precheck would be warranted. Nice to chat again and hope you can help out. CorinneSD is a very good copyeditor. I suggested she ask Sasata for input on what to look for. Let's coordinate the talk at
Talk:Cucurbita.
HalfGigtalk13:48, 9 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited
Whitley Castle, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages
Principia and
Alston. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the
FAQ • Join us at the
DPL WikiProject.
I took a quick look, impressive, could use some more references and pic arrangement with less (better no) squeezing between left and right. What I read (not all) looks like fine factual prose. How about a peer review? - My own little contribution is
Da pacem Domine (Pärt), started. We (in Germany) remember on
16 November. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
08:05, 11 November 2014 (UTC)reply
… is intended to include, very clearly, mis-use of primary rather than secondary sources in the sciences and other areas of scholarship as well. This is explicit in WP policies, and explanatory documents for the sciences and other areas. On this you are clearly mistaken. Signed, a Professor in the sciences, and longtime wikipedia editor. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
71.239.87.100 (
talk)
14:21, 11 November 2014 (UTC)reply
You may wish to delete this again — I do not look to IP User:Talk pages, so will miss what you write there — but I wanted to say, first TY for your measured response to my pointed challenge to your initial edit. While we may disagree on some level, your response was far more measured, and so time-saving and productive, than many I have encountered here. In particular, I am thankful you saw that there was substantial other work that accompanied the tagging (as there generally is from this editor), and so did not proceed to dispense baby with bath. (I would have said TY for the edit, immediately, but not being in a place where I feel comfortable logging, the automatic mechanisms are not available.) Second, TY for the comment at this IP talk page, which I have deleted, not perniciously, but after reading, and acknowledging here. On the matter of scientific use of primary sources I am clear, experienced, and certain (having fought the good fight for years regarding use of patents, primary sources, reviews versus research publications, etc.) In these discussions, I do not cite specific WPs because in my experience if a person is not persuaded quickly, by statement of concept, they are not likely to submit to a string of WP:THIS and WP:THAT. Thank you for being cordial on your response. In other areas, I have some experience, but am not of the same firm opinion, and so yield to your statements. The only matters for you to consider if we continue to interact there, are, (1) whether tags create specific notices in particular places, which might be useful to the article and community, and (2) whether particular tags might be very important to lay readers. I have, in particular, gone to articles, before recommending them to students for reading. However, after having specific tags reverted, on repeated occasions, by individuals concerned primarily for the appearance of articles, I have simply stopped recommending WP articles to students (rather than have them naively unaware that well attributed content is more reliable that poorly attributed content, and that both are more reliable than unattributed content). Bottom line, I believe it IS important for articles to bear marks of there being general and specific issues, to alert lay readers; for me, appearance means something, but relative to valid content, near to nothing. Accuracy and reliability of information is tantamount, and if we make an article appear more settled than the accuracy of its information deserves, we do (in my opinion) the lay reader a clear disservice. Hence, I add individual line tags in addition to section tags, etc. This is one view, but as I say, I realize I am in a minority — though within WP policy, and within my rights as an editor, I realize I am at the losing end of any "popular" vote on the matter. Hence, as long as appearance matters more than reality here, articles will mislead readers, remain stagnant in quality over long periods, and so your most well informed on subjects will generally not recommend our content. But, this we cannot solve, and so I again TY for cordial receptivity to challenge. Cheers.
71.239.87.100 (
talk)
17:57, 11 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Aw, that's nice. They used to have a regular festival at Kew Gardens; it was revived in 2013, and I guess they wanted it to look impressive. The water of the lily-pond below was specially darkened with dye to make the reflections more striking! All the best,
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
15:03, 16 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Right now we're waiting on CorinneSD to finish the copyediting. She's done a great job down through Habitat and Distro. So when she finishes Culinary Uses and below would likely be the time to send it to the featured process.
HalfGigtalk15:51, 16 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Rattlesnake as food
Hi! I was interested in how thoroughly you edited my edit, and I'd like to learn, please. I don't know what "rm" and "ce" mean. If you're the watchdog for this page, I think you've done a good job, and I sure didn't mean to add uninteresting info. Can you educate me? Thanks! Abyssopelagic 17:21, 21 November 2014 (UTC) Abyssopelagic
Okay, I understand your abbreviations, and they seem so obvious now. :) That blog entry that you cut was from the Food Network, which I did consider reliable; but you're the old hand and I'm still learning. Thank you very much! Abyssopelagic 21:18, 21 November 2014 (UTC) Abyssopelagic
Cucurbita FA preps
First, a hearty thank you for all your great help on this article. I think there's not much more to do unless we can find medical stuff that can be safely added. I was thinking we wait til the weekend to see if anyone has more pre-nomination improvements, then nominate. I would love for
Sminthopsis84 (
talk·contribs) to get the credit for this, but I'm not sure if she wants it. I don't have to have the credit either, I just want the article to be as good as it can be. What are your thoughts on all this?
HalfGigtalk19:41, 26 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Many thanks all round. There's always the possibility that someone at FA will ask for medical facts and refs to be included. Otherwise we're surely good to go. It has clearly been a team effort and Sminthopsis84 has certainly contributed; your involvement isn't remotely in doubt. All the best,
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
21:26, 26 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Yes, and I don't know, in that order. Apart from competition entries like the Wikicup, I doubt if anyone minds very much. On my own user page, I write (collab) if it was a joint project; some people note "minor" in a similar style.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
21:31, 26 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Super. I guess you're well aware that 'credit' means the graunch of pushing the thing through FAC, at least a month of hard work and sometimes sturm und drang into the bargain: we're only half way, you could say. I'm glad S. is in as we may need technical tweaks and journal citations.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
08:33, 27 November 2014 (UTC)reply
@
Cwmhiraeth: because you thought it shone? Nice! I've added some ancient history, there's tons more but probably rather minor stuff really. Am wondering what to do about chemistry. On the varieties of function, we could just split it like the review paper, Defensive and Offensive, only there's also Courtship ...
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
15:34, 27 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Yes, I've got diverted into several bioluminescent blind alleys. I think the article needs a bit of tidying up as various pieces of information have been added without creating a coherent whole, for example in the History section.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
09:15, 4 December 2014 (UTC)reply
I did some more to the History section but think the Function section, though not ideal, is adequate. I can't think of a better way to organise it.
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
13:30, 7 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Hello Chiswick, thank you for your earlier comment about the Pollia's coloration. My deletion might indeed have been to rigorously. Nevertheless, I think that the statement of 'brightest object in nature' should be toned down. There are numerous examples of reflectances brighter than the fruits from the Pollia plants, e.g. 80% in fish (Denton EJ, Nicol JAC (1966) A survey of reflectivity in silvery teleosts. J Mar Biol Assoc UK 46:685–722), 60% in beetles (Schultz TD, Bernard GD (1989) Pointillistic mixing of interference colours in cryptic tiger beetles. Nature 377:72–73) and squid (Sutherland RL, Mäthger LM, Hanlon RT, Urbas AM, Stone MO (2008) Cephalopod coloration model. I. Squid chromatophores and iridophores. J Opt Soc Am A Opt Image Sci Vis 25(3):588–599)). The bright coloration of Pollia is evident, but should be compared to other natural objects and not be overstated (also see Cronin et al 2014 Visual Ecology). Shall I revise it again, now with more relevant other examples and references? Best,
Pigmentkleur (
talk)
21:17, 29 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Well you might be right, but let me quote the source:
The bright blue coloration of this fruit is more intense than that of any previously described biological material. Uniquely in nature, the reflected color differs from cell to cell, as the layer thicknesses in the multilayer stack vary, giving the fruit a striking pixelated or pointillist appearance. Because the multilayers form with both helicoidicities, optical characterization reveals that the reflected light from every epidermal cell is polarized circularly either to the left or to the right, a feature that has never previously been observed in a single tissue.
Since this is a peer-reviewed paper and more recent than the other papers above, the claim seems to stand. Even if the 'most' eventually gets revised with new discoveries, 'exceptionally strong' will remain true. All the best,
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
21:49, 29 November 2014 (UTC)reply
FWIW, the seminal nature of this
civil disobedience and its profound effect on Britain and its is really an important part of the context in which the song arose. You are writing for a world wide audience, and readers not from the UK will know nothing about this. So I think your deletions are misdirected. 7&6=thirteen (
☎)13:08, 8 December 2014 (UTC)reply
OK, fair enough, I'll look over them again with that in mind. My basic thinking is that the additions applied primarily to the Trespass article, but of course some degree of context is required.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
14:07, 8 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article
Bioluminescence you nominated for
GA-status according to the
criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by
Legobot, on behalf of
Spinningspark --
Spinningspark (
talk)
15:00, 9 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article
Tay Whale you nominated for
GA-status according to the
criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by
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Cwmhiraeth --
Cwmhiraeth (
talk)
10:41, 11 December 2014 (UTC)reply
What about Bedford Park, and the area immediately north and west of Chiswick Park Station such as Bollo Lane, Fairlawn Avenue or Montgomery Road. Is this not Chiswick?
I think you'll find it's formally Acton Green; like
Clapham, Chiswick is a growing parish, which I predict will encompass Gunnersbury, Acton and Brentford in the near future, having already engulfed Turnham Green and Strand-on-the-Green, among other Anglo-Saxon villages! But we have to go with reliably published sources. I doubt if estate agents can be trusted to be reliable with anything, except their own fees, of course.
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
17:29, 16 December 2014 (UTC)reply
I was about to launch a GAN review, but then reflected that with Christmas at our throats next week now is not the time to be setting seven-day deadlines for requested changes. Instead, I have transcribed the notes I was intending to leave there, and put them here instead, for your consideration. I'm on much more familiar ground with this article than with the last of your GANs I tangled with; the WP articles on Elizabeth David and her books are mostly by me, so you can write me down as another foodie. I blew the dust off Mrs David's Spices, Salt and Aromatics in the English Kitchen, and can tell you, if you'd prefer to add a page reference instead of the link at ref 17, that ED's mention of Lady Clark's Thick Parmesan Biscuits is on pp. 230–31 of my copy (the Grub Street 2000 reissue,
ISBN9781902304663).
Some comments:
Lead
"Lady Charlotte Clark" – dear me, you'll incur the wrath of those strange souls who sleep with Debrett under their pillows (I nearly wrote that they slept with Burke's): you mustn't call her Lady Charlotte unless she was the daughter of an earl or even posher nobleman. As her father was a commoner, she was Charlotte, Lady Clark.
"the cook Elizabeth David" – she was a cook, of course, but "cookery writer" as you describe her later in the text seems a better description.
Context
"You tell us practically nothing of the Clarks. There is a Times obituary of Sir John, dated 14 April 1910 (which I can send you if you haven't got online access to The Times's archives) which tells you more than enough for your present article.
"They lived for some years in Turin" – the last person named was Henry James, and I think you should write "The Clarks lived…" here to avoid ambiguity.
Blockquote – the parenthentic dashes should be either unspaced em-dashes or spaced en-dashes, and not hyphens.
Book
I don't for a moment suggest that you must do it, but have you considered putting the list of contents into two or possibly even three columns? Easier on your reader's eye, I find.
Approach
"'Zucchetti à la Piedmontaise.'"" – there is an extra set of closing quotes here
Modern
"an inspiration for, the great Elizabeth David" –
WP:OVERLINK at this point
"well-travelled diplomats wife" – I see you have faithfully transcribed the original, in which there is no possessive apostrophe. I'm not sure what to suggest here. It's too minor a matter for a [sic]; I think the
MoS gives you licence to add the missing apostrophe silently. You may like to consider.
In the first Holt blockquote, the quotation marks should be doubles, not singles. In the second there are more hyphens that need replacing with dashes
Last blockquote – more quotation marks that should be doubles, not singles
Notes
"Courgettes or Zucchini" – capitalisation really wanted here?
References
There are several mentions of "Frere (1909)" but no bibliographical details of the work in the refs/citations section. They are included earlier, within the main text, but I think they should be repeated here with the refs. You should add OCLC numbers for both editions there, too: WorldCat will oblige.
The links to the Find My Past site should include the {{subscription}} template
You might standardise on either "page" or "p." in your book refs. Compare, e.g. refs 13 and 14.
To my mind the bibliographical info for ref 14 should include the ISBN (or OCLC if for some reason there isn't an ISBN)
Page ranges (ref 6) and date ranges (ref 14) should have an unspaced en-dash rather than a hyphen, and I should say the hyphen in ref 7 ought to be a spaced en-dash.
Ref 15 – page number lacking (I can get this from the British Library after Christmas if it's a problem)
Ref 16 – The Spectator should be italicised, as the TLS is in the previous ref.
I hope these points are useful. By all means move them to the article talk page if you feel they'd be more suitably located there. I'll be glad to return to the GAN in the New Year, if someone else hasn't bagged this delectable article for review. Meanwhile, warmest seasonal greetings, sir! – Tim riley talk14:41, 19 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Note: after discussion on my talk page we have agreed to go ahead with the GAN now, and I am copying my comments, above, over to the GAN review page. Tim riley talk15:52, 19 December 2014 (UTC)reply
The columns still don't work on my ancient desktop but are right as ninepence on my modernish laptop. I can ask no more. I loved this article! In the unlikely event that waspish Anglican bishops or angst-ridden choreographers are of interest I have two GANs in the queue for assessment, but speaking as one who rarely looks in to GAN/FAC for articles on uncongenial subjects I quite understand if you are not inclined. Their turn will come. Tim riley talk18:13, 19 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Hello, Chiswick Chap, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this
seasonal occasion. Spread the
WikiLove by wishing another user a
Merry Christmas and a
Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you a heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2015.
Happy editing,
—Lotje (
talk to me)
03:22, 23 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Well, it's an exceptionally tidy mess! It's an elegantly written, well-structured and seemingly properly-referenced article. I imagine you mean it has a promotional tinge to it, suggesting some sort of conflict of interest in its construction? That is imaginable but doesn't make it a mess; I doubt if deletion is on the cards, so the action suggested by the tag at the top (slimming down the external links) is the most obvious thing you could do. The redlinks might or might not be feasible as articles; if they'll never happen, they could be removed; and perhaps the article could be checked carefully for any hints of promotional tone, but I don't think there's much wrong there really. All the best,
Chiswick Chap (
talk)
08:22, 26 December 2014 (UTC)reply