|
Hi, the
recent edit you made to
Haplogroup I1a (Y-DNA) has been reverted, as it appears to be unconstructive. Use the
sandbox for testing; if you believe the edit was constructive, ensure that you provide an informative
edit summary. You may also wish to read the
introduction to editing. Thanks.
Steve Crossin (
talk)
12:00, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
The
recent edit you made to
Haplogroup I1a (Y-DNA) constitutes
vandalism, and has been reverted. Please do not continue to vandalize pages; use the
sandbox for testing. Thanks.
Steve Crossin (
talk)
12:07, 18 March 2008 (UTC))
Please do not vandalize pages, as you did with
this edit to
Haplogroup I1a (Y-DNA). If you continue to do so, you will be blocked from editing.
Steve Crossin (
talk)
12:12, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
This is your last warning. You will be blocked from editing the next time you vandalize a page, as you did with
this edit to
Haplogroup I1a (Y-DNA).
Steve Crossin (
talk)
12:16, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Aaronjhill, I would like to express my apologies for the revert I performed on that page. I immediately thought it was vandalism as I was using Lupin's Anti-Vandal Tool which scans recent changes and Line 380 came up -> :Forward 5′→ 3′: gcaacaatgagggtttttttg. I see vandalism like this all the time and my automatic reaction was to revert it. My policy is to revert once and if it comes up again, look into the history. I didn't see the page come up again however. If I did see the page, I would of seen your constructive edits and reverted my revert immediately. Olly150 13:20, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. We appreciate your contributions to Haplogroup I1a (Y-DNA). With regards to the above, when you find yourself in conflict with another editor, please try communicating directly. Sometimes editing on Wikipedia can be frustrating, particularly when others misconstrue our actions, but policy requires that we respond civilly. Personal attacks, like this, are forbidden and can themselves be grounds for blocking. Please try to assume good faith when you are approached by another editor and discuss the matter with him or her on the talk page. Also, misunderstandings can sometimes be avoided from the start by the use of descriptive edit summaries. (You'll see the edit summary box just below the edit window. It is helpful to briefly characterize your edits there for the benefit of other contributors.) The use of talk pages and edit summaries can prevent an unfortunate escalation of misunderstandings and provide a more harmonious editing environment. Vandalism is a serious problem on Wikipedia, and sometimes good faith contributions are mischaracterized that way. I understand that having your efforts so labeled must be very irritating. But adding insults to user spaces is disruptive; it is not a productive or appropriate method of dispute resolution. If you have any questions about these policies or guidelines, please feel free to drop me a note on my talk page. Alternatively, you can visit Wikipedia's help desk, which is typically manned by volunteers around the clock. -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:32, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I tried this and the email link at his personal page, but neither worked. I believe you must have an email address linked to your account before contacting people. I think I skipped this step when registering. Obviously I got a little hot and should not have reacted as I did. I apologize. -- Aaron
A lot of this information is buried in articles and most people won't take the time to find and read the material. Wiki editors seem to be an intrusive bunch in my opinion. Please let the people who are active in I1a research work on this without unnecessary interference. -- Aaron
You're making a huge improvement to this article. Very impressive.
But I'm worried that in a couple of sections, the focus may be straying a bit.
Style in Wikipedia articles tends to be quite terse and tightly focussed on the primary subject of the article. Where possible, background information if it is not so directly associated tends to be handed off to other articles. So while material eg on Tolkein or the kings of early France or the bloodthirsty image of the Vikings is interesting, it has to be quite pared back, and the reader needs to be convinced that it is directly informative to understanding Haplogroup I1a.
Otherwise some (probably clueless) editor is likely to wander along, say "I don't see the relevance of this", and clumsily chop out a big swathe - including material which really needs to be there.
So I think it might be to your advantage to pare these sections back a bit. As far as possible, leave background information or interesting but slightly off-topic material to other articles (edit it into those articles yourself, if necessary), unless there's a clear point you need to make the reader grasp to properly understand I1a, and what it may have taught us. In which case, make sure the reader understands why they need to know it!
Sorry if this is cold water, but again real appreciation for all the work you're putting in. -- Jheald ( talk) 15:40, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
There are certainly areas that need to be cleaned up. I will work on it. -- Aaron
P.S. you can place four tilde's ~~~~ to sign your name, and add a colon : to indent your message under someone elses in talk pages. Nagelfar ( talk) 07:27, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
A lot of this information is buried in articles and most people won't take the time to find and read the material. Wiki editors seem to be an intrusive bunch in my opinion. Please let the people who are active in I1a research work on this without unnecessary interference. -- Aaron
The Rootsi paper is all about this. I1a in northern France. I have spent considerable time searching for other sources without success, but this is a counter to the FTDNA theory. Please read the damn article. FTDNA (and others) thinks that I1a arose in northern France. This is extremely controversial and the opponents think that I1a was introduced by Norsemen raiders.
I guess I should just go elsewhere and write what I want. Have to find webspace somewhere. God forbid "original" research! Wiki really needs to revisit its policies.
-- Aaron
Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, one or more of the external links you added to the page Haplogroup I1a (Y-DNA) do not comply with our guidelines for external links and have been removed. Wikipedia is not a collection of links; nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Since Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, please discuss it on the article's talk page before reinserting it. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia.
Thank you for uploading Image:I1a_europe.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. Jusjih ( talk) 02:37, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
What's the problem? I created this image. -- Aaron
Please forgive all the complications with contributing here. Several of these complications have been added as solutions (though imperfect) to various problems encountered in the pastm that you wouldn't be aware of.
For instance, the one referenced above about images. In the past (the too recent past) people were uploading all sorts of things copied from all over, introducing copyright concerns. So they've added the requirement that the uploader somehow state the provenance of an image. If you created the image, then there is a way to say that, and that you are adding it under an open license. A hassle to be sure, but unfortunately needed. They've even got 'bots' that automatically check copyright status omissions! Oh, cool, you've added some information. Hopefully that'll be enough?
Speaking of bots, you hit another one, that XlinkBot warning above. This is another 'bot' that checks for additions of links to problem sites. You see, some sites were linked to for abusive purposes so many many times, that the WP people finally just had to blacklist some domain names. Perhaps "typepad.com" is one of those. Again, there's a reason for these arbitrary-appearing things, even when you yourself have done nothing wrong, and certainly didn't mean anything bad. Another hassle because of all the previous abuse of WP by other people. A solution that is painfully less than ideal.
And the emphasis on sources... another painful result. The various editors who simply wanted to slander some other soul, or country, or company, or religion, or... (sigh). So they ended up super-emphasizing that text insertions should be supportable, pretty much solely by reference to reputable external sources (books, magazines, newspapers, etc.). Sometimes even to where "common sense" statements can be criticized by someone, because that someone doesn't believe in that particular common sense. This is a big burden for a lot of people, but rather important to the continuing encyclopedic project.
Anyway, after the first mistaken reception you got here, I hope that the following "wow, we appreciate the work" has not been dampened too much by the wiki-overhead requirements and 'etiquette' references (add "~~~~" and the like). It is confusing and slows one down. But you can ask for help, and we really do appreciate expert additions!! Shenme ( talk) 05:32, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Things are going fine now. Just trying to learn the Wiki methods. -- Aaron
I was wondering if you would help me add all of Nordtvedt's used "modal haplotypes" to the list on the I1a page. So far there's just AS, Norse, Bothnia & uN. I was previously concerned about the page getting too bulky if I were to do such a thing, then I thought we could put code to make it collapsible such as:
Haplotypes of I1a. |
---|
I1a Anglo-Saxon (I1a-AS) Has its peak gradient in the Germanic lowland countries: north Germany, Denmark, the Netherlands, as well as the British Isles & old Norman regions of France.
{{DYS |393 = 13 |390 = 22 |394/19 = 14 |391 = 10 |385a = 13 |385b = 14 |426 = 11 |388 = 14 |439 = 11 |389i = 12 |392 = 11 |389ii = 28 |458 = 15 |459a = 8 |459b = 9 |455 = 8 |454 = 11 |447 = 23 |437 = 16 |448 = 20 |449 = 28 }} {{DYS |464a = 12 |464b = 14 |464c = 15 |464d = 16 |460 = 10 |GATA-H4 = 12 |YCAIIa = 19 |YCAIIb = 21 |456 = 14 |607 = 14 |576 = — |570 = — |CDYa = — |CDYb = — |442 = 12 |438 = 10 |531 = 11 |578 = 8 |395S1a = 15 |395S1b = 15 |590 = 8 |537 = 11 |641 = 10 |472 = 8 |406S1 = 9 |511 = 9 |425 = 12 |413a = 23 |413b = 25 |557 = 15 |594 = 10 |436 = 12 |490 = 12 |534 = 15-17 |450 = 8 |444 = 13 |481 = 25 |520 = 20 |446 = 13 |617 = 13 |568 = 11 |487 = 12 |572 = 11 |640 = 11 |492 = 12 |565 = 11 |461 = 12 |462 = 12 |GATA-A10 = 13 |635/C4 = 21;22 |B07 = 11 |441 = 16 |445 = 11 |452 = 12 |463 = 19 }} I1a Norse (I1a-N) Has its peak gradient in Sweden. {{DYS |393 = 13 |390 = 23 |394/19 = 14 |391 = 10 |385a = 14 |385b = 14 |426 = 11 |388 = 14 |439 = 11 |389i = 12 |392 = 11 |389ii = 28 |458 = 15 |459a = 8 |459b = 9 |455 = 8 |454 = 11 |447 = 23 |437 = 16 |448 = 20 |449 = 28 }} {{DYS |464a = 12 |464b = 14 |464c = 15 |464d = 16 |460 = 10 |GATA-H4 = 12 |YCAIIa = 19 |YCAIIb = 21 |456 = 14 |607 = 14 |576 = — |570 = — |CDYa = — |CDYb = — |442 = 12 |438 = 10 |531 = 11 |578 = 8 |395S1a = 15 |395S1b = 15 |590 = 8 |537 = 11 |641 = 10 |472 = 8 |406S1 = 9 |511 = 10 |425 = 12 |413a = 23 |413b = 25 |557 = 15 |594 = 10 |436 = 12 |490 = 12 |534 = 16 |450 = 8 |444 = 13 |481 = 25 |520 = 20 |446 = 13 |617 = 13 |568 = 11 |487 = 12 |572 = 11 |640 = 11 |492 = 12 |565 = 11 |461 = 12 |462 = 13 |GATA-A10 = 13 |635/C4 = 21;22 |B07 = 11 |441 = 16 |445 = 11 |452 = 12 |463 = 19 }} I1a Norse-Bothnia (I1a-N-Finn) Has its peak gradient in Finland. {{DYS |393 = 13 |390 = 23 |394/19 = 14 |391 = 10 |385a = 14 |385b = 14 |426 = 11 |388 = 14 |439 = 10 |389i = 12 |392 = 11 |389ii = 28 |458 = 15 |459a = 8 |459b = 9 |455 = 8 |454 = 11 |447 = 23 |437 = 16 |448 = 20 |449 = 28;29 }} {{DYS |464a = 12 |464b = 14 |464c = 15 |464d = 15 |460 = 10 |GATA-H4 = 12 |YCAIIa = 19 |YCAIIb = 21 |456 = 14 |607 = 14 |576 = — |570 = — |CDYa = — |CDYb = — |442 = 12 |438 = 10 |531 = 11 |578 = 8 |395S1a = 15 |395S1b = 15 |590 = 8 |537 = 11 |641 = 10 |472 = 8 |406S1 = 9 |511 = — |425 = 12 |413a = — |413b = — |557 = 15 |594 = 10 |436 = 12 |490 = 12 |534 = — |450 = 8 |444 = 13 |481 = — |520 = 20 |446 = 13 |617 = 13 |568 = 11 |487 = 12 |572 = 11 |640 = 11 |492 = 12 |565 = 11 |461 = 12 |462 = 13 |GATA-A10 = 13 |635/C4 = 21;22 |B07 = 11 |441 = 16 |445 = 11 |452 = 12 |463 = 19 }} I1a Ultra-Norse Type 1 (I1a-uN1) Has its peak gradient in Norway. {{DYS |393 = 13 |390 = 23 |394/19 = 14 |391 = 10 |385a = 14 |385b = 15 |426 = 11 |388 = 14 |439 = 11 |389i = 12 |392 = 11 |389ii = 28 |458 = 15 |459a = 8 |459b = 9 |455 = 8 |454 = 11 |447 = 23 |437 = 16 |448 = 20 |449 = 28;29 }} {{DYS |464a = 12 |464b = 14 |464c = 15 |464d = 16 |460 = 10 |GATA-H4 = 12 |YCAIIa = 19 |YCAIIb = 21 |456 = 14 |607 = 14 |576 = — |570 = — |CDYa = — |CDYb = — |442 = 12 |438 = 10 |531 = 11 |578 = 8 |395S1a = 15 |395S1b = 15 |590 = 8 |537 = 11 |641 = 10 |472 = 8 |406S1 = 9 |511 = 10 |425 = 12 |413a = 23 |413b = 25 |557 = 15 |594 = 10 |436 = 12 |490 = 12 |534 = 17;18 |450 = 8 |444 = 13 |481 = 25;26 |520 = 20 |446 = 13 |617 = 13 |568 = 11 |487 = 12 |572 = 11 |640 = 11 |492 = 12 |565 = 11 |461 = 12 |462 = 13 |GATA-A10 = 13 |635/C4 = 21 |B07 = 11 |441 = 16 |445 = 11 |452 = 12 |463 = 19 }} |
Maybe we could do the same kind of collapsible table for the technical mutational information. Alternately we could just display the main/important ones, and put the others into such a show/hide scheme, or maybe the downstream ones, etc. Nagelfar ( talk) 09:25, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't see it has a problem. People can scroll and read and skip if need be. By the way, I have only included a few of the important SNPs and only one STR. -- Aaron
I guess we could try it and see how it works. I don't have the time right now to do it. -- Aaron
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Are you kidding? He was critical to training Civil War troops. As I find the time, I will write more about him. -- Aaron
Hi Aaron, I've been looking at the article about Y haplogroup I1 and I have some concerns. You are clearly editing in good faith and know a great deal about this subject, but it contains a great deal of what we call original research, specifically it suffers from the problem that it cites unreliable sources such as emails, blogs etc. Here on Wikipedia we only include information that is verified from published sources that are considered reliable. That means that we only cite material that has been published in an academic journal, or in a book written by a recognised researcher or expert in the field. The other problem with your contributions is that many of them constitute a synthesis, taking ideas from work and applying your own interpretation is not what we should be doing. I know there is a lot to understand about how we do things here on Wikipedia, it took me some time to understand our core policies, but when you do it makes editing here much easier. Simply stated you can't use emails, blogs or the ideas of people posting at FTDNA or Ysearch to cite information. Avoid primary sources such as actual data and stick to reputable secondary and tertiary sources. For example you claimed in the article:
Genetic remnants remain in northern France, indicating a small influx of I1 men, likely during Viking raids and subsequent settlement.<ref>[http://www.ysearch.org/haplosearch_results.asp?uid=&haplo=I1a®ion=WE&submit=Search I1a Samples in Western Europe from ySearch]</ref>
But this claim is clearly original research, your reference is simply to a list of ySearch users who are members of haplogroup I1 who live in western Europe, this does not support the claim for "Viking" raids or subsequent settlement. What you need to do is verify the claim of Viking raids by citing a reliable source that makes this claim, simply showing that I1 exists in France does not verify the claim of "Viking" raids. The article is littered with this sort of original research and synthesis. Please don't think I'm leaving this message as a criticism, I know there is a lot to understand when one starts Wikipedia, and I know I made a great many mistakes when I started editing here. I suggest that you read our core policies neutral point of view, verifiability and no original research. Then take a look at reliable sources and In science try to avoid citing the popular press. There are several useful policies and guidelines such as these that it's informative to read. Reading our core policies does not take much time, about ten minutes per policy and I strongly recommend it. I've tagged the I1 article as being OR (original research) and SYN (synthesis). I'm going to go through it when I get time and remove much of the speculation that is currently contained there. I'd also like to know the origin of the map that you have at the top of the page, where do these data come from? Are they published? Who published them, the map also needs to be cited or else it too is original research. If you can't cite the map then Im affraid I'll have to remove that as well, which would be a shame because it's a nice map. All the best. Alun ( talk) 05:46, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
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I am not sure why this is an issue as it is merely a book cover. I really could care less if it is deleted. Just seems so unnecessary. In my opinion, a lot of the Wiki police patrols are rather overzealous at times. -- Aaron
Hi. I hope you don't mind, but I've renamed the article (twice in fact !) - it seems that the article you created was the second such Cunard ship to carry that name, so I've tweaked it a little. If you want to add details about the first and third ships, feel free ! :-) CultureDrone ( talk) 09:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
No problem. -- Aaron
A tag has been placed on Roger Friedman requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for biographies.
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This doesn't make a lot of sense to me since he is referenced on Wiki pages 642 times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=roger+friedman
-- Aaron
Hi Aaron,
You should cite the sources for the I1 map you made (I'm presuming it's a combination of other I1 maps that are sourced, simply state that in the image page that is how you made it, by referencing the images, saying you did so by scratch as to not infringe copywrite) because someone moved it saying it was "original research" with "unverifiable sourcing" from the I1 haplogroup page. I'd like to see the image re-added myself. Nagelfar ( talk) 17:06, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
Yes, you need to state the source data from which you made the maps from. The maps are very good and useful, but are being removed in some places since it's said that there is no proper source reference. Also I personally would like to know the source, since I'm interested in this. Hollinger ( talk) 16:51, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
I am the one who removed the map and I will continue to do so unless you source it to WP:RS. The map obviously has flaws, e.g. Northwestern Poland was completely cleansed of the indigenous population in 1945 and resettled with people primarily from Central Poland, so it seems a bit odd how the Northwestern Poles suddenly express I and the Central Poles don't. Skäpperöd ( talk) 19:45, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
Skäpperöd, to assume that modern Poles do not belong to I1 is just plain wrong. There are several people of Polish descent in our I1 porject at FTDNA. Perhaps you should find something better to do than bother people on Wiki. -- Aaron
What sources and studies show this map has "obvious flaws"? You want me to cite sources. Well, how about you? -- Aaron
Perhaps you should read up on these pages. If harassment continues, I will request certain users be blocked from editing this page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_war
-- Aaron
Skäpperöd you are wrong again. I have cited two papers for the map. -- Aaron
Obviously you lack common sense, but I think you should read this as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Do_not_disrupt_Wikipedia_to_illustrate_a_point
-- Aaron
By the way, you avoided the major question I had. What are your sources for your claims about Poland? -- Aaron
Talk about original research! To assume that the expulsions eliminated I1 from now Polish territory is not based on the evidence. Several Polish families are indeed I1. In fact, there is still a very small German minority in Poland today. -- AJH ( talk) 10:58, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Here's a few things you should read: German minority in Poland and FTDNA I1 Project Results (plenty of references to Poland and Slavic names such as Kulko, Kuzdzal, Pomykalski, Pietruszewski, Wnuk, Wolinski, Skarbek de Kozietuly, Kiepura, Bielinski, Klem, Kornicz-Hospod, Pecura, Redzisz, Welna, Zalewski) -- AJH ( talk) 11:16, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Skäpperöd, please don't contact me anymore. -- Aaron
Skäpperöd, I would appreciate if you would stop. -- AJH ( talk) 10:37, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
I was under the impression that the I1a image had been deleted. Since you are the one who had a problem with it, perhaps you should request its removal and stop telling me what to do. -- AJH ( talk) 10:45, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. Please sign all posts in talk and discussion pages with 4 tildes - this will automatically date the post, and link to your userpage. Thanks! ( talk→ Bwilkins / BMW ←track) 11:08, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
I was wondering where that button was. The Wiki platform takes some getting used to. -- AJH ( talk) 10:35, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Please, please, use edit summaries. Sure, edit summaries can be misleading (I've seen ones labelled 'grammer' which are just vandalism (yes, they usually spell it wrong). I've just reverted your edit to Middle Ages as there was no obvious reason for it. If I hadn't looked at your other edits I would have assumed it was just driveby vandalism. Thanks. Dougweller ( talk) 06:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
I don't even know what an "edit summary" is. Anyway, I was looking for a talk page for this image file. The map is a piece a junk and should be deleted. The Huns cover most of northern Europe. Where are all of the German and Slavic groups and tribes? -- AJH ( talk) 08:10, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
After reviewing the map and the history of the Huns, it really should read Hunnic Empire. "Huns" implies the people, despite the fact that the Germans and Slavs were still there, just subjugated by Attila and company. -- AJH ( talk) 08:17, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
I have posted my objections on the Middle Ages talk page. -- AJH ( talk) 08:25, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Also note this section on the Huns page, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns#20th_Century_use_in_reference_to_Germans. -- AJH ( talk) 08:34, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
All of these "Hun" and "Hunnic Empire" maps are very misleading. Take this caption from Attila's page: "The Hunnic Empire stretched from the steppes of Central Asia into modern Germany, and from the River Danube to the Baltic Sea - albeit not simultaneously, as the Huns first appeared in Southern Russia and later moved to Central Europe." So this map is inaccurate as well, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Huns_empire.png. -- AJH ( talk) 08:59, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
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