I'm glad you've been able to get a computer! The addon is Update Scanner [1] I've also created an subpage where you can find other nifty addons. User:Penubag/optimum toolsets You might find some other nice addons, so take a look. -- penubag ( talk) 03:16, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Momentum in the development of the outlines is continuing to build, even though we haven't added any new outlines lately. Plenty of work is being done on the outlines we already have.
Keep up the good work everyone!
Kudos go to Buaidh, who has dived head first into outline development, continuing improvement of the country outlines, and doing so vigorously. Take a look at his contribs. He has taken the initiative and has been expanding those outlines' design and coverage. Be sure to let him know what you think of his work!
Excitement (mine at least) is building as we approach the Super Huge Expansion, during which notices will be placed on thousands of subject talk pages and their corresponding WikiProjects (see below concerning which ones). Though not all on the same day! - this will take place over a period of weeks or months, because it's best not to open the flood gates all at once.
The existing outlines should serve as strong examples for editors who wish to develop new outlines, and so we need to complete them as much as we can before we start to take this to the next level (in about 3 months). The rewrite of the outline article (the draft, which explains outlines in detail), and the guideline on outlines and outline development, also need to be completed before the transcendence begins. These will help guide the decisions and actions of editors, and reduce confusion.
What's next? Where is the Outline of knowledge headed?
Well, it will grow, to encompass all of human knowledge.
But, is there a plan?
YES!!!
Currently under construction on the Outline of knowledge WikiProject page is a version of the outline that will display links to all the outline pages currently in the encyclopedia proper, links to all outline drafts, and redlinks to all planned outline drafts.
You can help. Please place links to the remaining drafts in there (with complete pagenames so we can easily tell they are drafts). Once all the draft pages are placed, please look over the overall outline for gaps in coverage, and add missing subjects. I expect there are thousands of missing subjects extensive enough to benefit from being outlined. New subjects should be included as red draft links. Thank you.
But it's not just an editing task list...
During the upcoming "Super Huge Expansion" (mentioned above), the article talk page and WikiProject for each of the subjects listed on the projected outline will receive a notice requesting the creation and development of the outline page for that subject. Each notice will also explain how a subject's outline will integrate into the Outline of knowledge and into Wikipedia's navigation system as a whole.
See Wikipedia:WikiProject Outline of knowledge#Projected outline.
The nice thing about a reverse outline is that it turns up problems that exist in the publication being outlined, which provides opportunities to fix them. Since we get very little or no opposition to fixing problems even on sets of hundreds of pages, we've been plowing through them.
One of the biggest problems in Wikipedia that our work on the Outline of knowledge has uncovered so far is with the set of topics lists. Their titles, in the forms "List of x topics" and "List of x-related topics" are ambiguous, and they are not the most common terms for describing their content. See WP:COMMONNAME. To make matters worse, the set is divided between 2 competing types/sets of pages: alphabetical indexes, and outlines.
In an effort to sort out this mess, the indexes are being renamed, and the outlines are being reformatted and moved, or merged, into the Outline of knowledge.
So far, almost 300 topic lists have been renamed to indexes. Nobody has objected to the names chosen, but one editor has expressed reservation on the approach - he was concerned it would cause confusion by having 2 title standards in place at the same time for these. Though he himself was not confused, nor did he object to the titles. And nobody else has expressed confusion or dissatisfaction with the new titles either. It has been over 2 weeks since the renaming has begun, and since no confusion seems to have been caused, and since there is no opposition to the new names, I plan to continue with the renaming.
Also, one topic list has been merged into its corresponding outline so far: List of transport topics was merged into Outline of transport. It turned out very good. List of cell biology topics is currently being merged into Outline of cell biology (see the link dump in hidden comments at the end of the outline).
I'm not sure how many lists have "topics" in their titles, but Google turned up 788, and these appear to include the ones that have already been renamed to indexes. Subtracting those renamed so far, there are about 500 more to go.
I thought you might want to compare notes on the methods we use to watch over the outlines. Here's how I keep an eye on things...
My watchlist had so many thousands of articles in it that I finally just deleted them all. Now I have it set so that I have to manually add pages to be watched, and I use it only to watch trouble spots and collaborations I'm participating in.
Because I like to watch specific sets of pages at a time, I use "Related changes" on list pages. That way the results are not watered down with edits from pages I'm not immediately concerned with.
I always use WP:POP and Related changes together. With POP installed, you go to a link list, like User:Buaidh/Country outlines of the Americas, then click on "Related changes" in the toolbox menu, and then hover the mouse cursor over the diff and hist links so you can look at those without clicking on them.
It's pretty fast.
The technique turns Wikipedia's list system into a crystal ball.
Penubag recommends Update Scanner, which is a Firefox add-on that periodically scans pages and pings you when a change is detected. You can even set its level of sensitivity for each scanned page (e.g., "ignore changes of 100 words or less").
I'd use it, but I don't have a computer. :(
See also WP:OTS for more power tools and techniques, and User:Penubag/optimum toolsets for some more nice addons, that do a variety of things.
I'm always looking for new power tools and power skills, so if you know of any, please share (let me know)!
The Transhumanist 04:36, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
P.S.: Penubag, I think I can get the outline article and outline guidelines done within 3 months (including feedback and finetuning). At that time, assuming I'm done, I'll ask Thehelfulone and Juliancolton to start placing the notices around Wikipedia. To support the growing amount of effort that will likely be directed upon the Outline of knowledge and its branches from then on, what awards do you think we should have in place by then? I look forward to your reply.
While surveying libraries, their outline-related resources, and our coverage of them, I came across something funny...
What subclass is the Bible in the Library of Congress Classification?
Do you think they'd like this one at WP:DYK?
(Nope. They didn't.) :)
For months, I've been sitting at a terminal in one of the largest libraries in the country, and I haven't even looked around at the available resources.
Until a few days ago.
I'm overwhelmed.
When compared to libraries, Wikipedia is small. (See Digest of Education Statistics 2008, Chapter 7:Libraries and Educational Technology Libraries, and turn to page 617).
But is that a fair comparison?
Yes.
Why?
Because we have growth potential. :)
And we cover everything, including libraries!
Guess what else I found?
I began to study libraries and librarians, since they are experts in organizing knowledge. And of course I turned to Wikipedia to see what we had on the things I came across...
And while doing so I kept running into outlines on Wikipedia that are not (yet) part of the Outline of knowledge.
When I come across non-OOK outlines, generally I rename them, and reformat them to our standard outline format. But there is the occasional exception.
Here are some outlines I just added:
The last 2 are outlines by their very nature, and so our standard outline subheadings didn't seem to fit. So I left them as is.
I renamed the first 2, but the last one is the name of the outline, that is, the topic itself is an outline, and that outline is presented as the article's content, so I left the name as is. For now. This needs more thought.
Of course, that's not all. Concerning those last 2 outlines above...
...not only are they outlines, but they are outlines of knowledge! Well, the top few levels, at least.
Uh, so?
What happens if we linkify them? :)
That is, what happens if we linkify their classifications to Wikipedia's outlines? :) :) :)
Yep.
I challenge you to find some "hidden" outlines.
I dare you to take a look around Wikipedia for hidden outlines (that is, outlines not yet hooked into the OOK), and add your kills to WP:WPOOK#The hunt for hidden outlines.
My trophies are already there.
The Transhumanist 20:16, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
I've been rewriting the Outline article from scratch.
Before I move it to article space, it needs to be finished and completely referenced.
I need your help on it.
The Transhumanist 01:11, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
The category associated with the no flagged revisions userbox you have placed on your user page is up for deletion at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009 April 23#Category:Wikipedia users who oppose Flagged Revisions and you are invited to share your opinions on the issue. Alansohn ( talk) 05:24, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I have... Err... recreated the Dsi you ordered at Graphic Lab. Tell me what you think. It is at File:Dsi white closed upright.svg Tell me what you think! Please reply on my talk page, as I would like that! :P-- Goldblattster ( talk) 19:10, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
I find this edit and this one very unfortunate and I've undone them and added a dablink to the top of the article titled secant line saying that the trigonometric secant function is not what the article is about.
You really should have read the article titled secant line before doing those edits. You would have found out that it's about a different topic. You should also look at the secant disambiguation page, which also explains that these are two different topics. Michael Hardy ( talk) 16:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Development is moving steadily forward. We haven't created any new outlines lately, but a lot of editing of our existing outlines is taking place. Take a look at Buaidh's contributions. :)
I'm impressed.
I can safely say we now have another fanatic working on the project.
A big danger to new pages or pages that have low traffic are prods. These are deletion proposals that don't have to go through AfD. If a prod sits on a page, any page, 5 days without opposition, the page can be deleted without discussion.
Such pages can be undeleted without discussion too, but there's usually a delay, especially if you don't notice the page missing right away. Prods create undesirable gaps in the subject coverage of list sets.
I just caught one the other day, so keep an eye on the outline pages!
One of the benefits of reverse outlining is the discovery of problems (gaps in coverage, etc.) with the publication being outlined. We've come across several and have been fixing those as we go. Because hypertext tables of contents are only as good as the pages they link to, we've been cleaning up large sections of Wikipedia. This was something I did not foresee when I started this project.
One of the sets of pages we link to on the outlines is the set of indexes, formerly called "List of x topics". Unfortunately, the lists of topics were divided between 2 different sets competing for the same article names, and this impeded development of both sets. One of those sets were indexes, and the rest are outlines (more about these below).
So I set about splitting up the 2 sets, by renaming the indexes to "Index of x articles" or "Index of x-related articles".
All 450 or so of them.
Nobody has complained about the new names, but 2 or 3 people thought I was way too bold to attempt this without a proposal or discussion first. Just 2 or 3 people. That's about as much opposition as you could expect for moving a single page.
Not bad for a move of this volume.
There are many more indexes out there, but our main concern are those which are provided links on the outlines. Many of those are redlinks (gaps in coverage as mentioned above), and so we need a way to track these and direct editor attention to them so that somebody creates them...
So, I've created a page for the set, that parallels the OOK list:
The complete list of "Index of" articles can be found at User:The Transhumanist/Index, and this list needs to be gone over to make sure each article index listed is included on the portal page above. If you help with this, please put - placed after each entry that you check and place.
Thank you.
To further support the development of index pages, and provide a central place for people to go to find out more about indexes and what needs to be done, I've created the Index WikiProject.
There are outline pages hiding all over Wikipedia. They aren't in OOK's formats, but we can fix that. :)
Converting existing outlines and absorbing them into the OOK is a lot easier than creating outlines from scratch, and it avoids unnecessary duplication of effort. But before we can convert them, we have to find them...
A hunt is underway for non-OOK outlines. So far, User:Gimme danger is in the lead and has found the most. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Outline of knowledge#The hunt for hidden outlines for more information.
Please don't rename any non-standard outlines you come across to OOK's standard naming until after you reformat them. Renaming them only after they are reformatted helps us keep track of which outlines have and have not been converted.
Thank you.
The way I usually do this is by substituting the relevant outline generator template at the beginning of the outline, which forces the existing outline to the bottom of the page. Then I add an "under construction" tag, and then move all the links from the original outline to the relevant sections in the standard structure. It is important to finish the conversion quickly, so as not to create confusion. Then I scour Wikipedia for missing links (using Google to do a site-specific search of Wikipedia), to make the upgraded outline more comprehensive than the converted outline. Be sure to check all related categories too. Add a lead paragraph, add external links, and voila!
Better than before.
The next phase in the evolution of this project is to increase participation by expanding the Wikipedia community's awareness of the Outline of knowledge, its purpose, and what needs to be done for any given subject.
This will entail placing banners on the outlines' talk pages, the talk page for the WikiProject associated with the subject of each outline and of each planned outline, and on the talk page of each article corresponding to each outline and to each planned outline.
Then instructions on improving subject access, including the creation and development of an outline for each subject, will be posted on every related WikiProject page. (There's a WikiProject for the subject of most outlines).
We will also be sending notices to every member of every WikiProject associated with the subject of each and every outline and planned outline.
But before this happens, the outline guidelines and the article draft for the topic "Outline" must be completed. Without these, many editors will not know what an outline is, or what to do to build and improve them.
And that's our current bottleneck.
Once those are ready (the guideline and article), we can take this project to the next level.
Well, that's all for now.
Until next time,
The Transhumanist 23:58, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
We'll definitely need the rest of the awards in place before we take the project to the next level.
I'm not sure how long it will take me to finish up the "bottleneck". The guidelines are almost done and were easy to write. But the outline article draft is proving to be a real pain in the...
I'm finding it hard to pull away from editing outlines in order to read up on them. :)
But it shouldn't take me too long once I do.
Just a heads up.
The Transhumanist 23:58, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi Transhumanist! Could you please clarify what you mean by "We'll definitely need the rest of the awards in place before we take the project to the next level." What do you mean by "awards in place"? Are you referring to the creation of specific topic awards such as for medicine? -- penubag ( talk) 07:30, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
The article doesn't say.
I'm interested, because I need to explain the benefits in the guideline on outlines I'm writing. (Outlines are a type of tree structure).
I've also asked the question at various reference desks, and these threads may help to jump start your brain on this question. :)
What benefits have you noticed?
How are Wikipedia's outlines useful to you?
I look forward to your answers on my talk page.
The Transhumanist 04:34, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
In all the symbol-hunting you've been having me do, I came across this: Dragon Rouge.
Too bad it belongs to a cult. It would make a pretty cool medallion. :)
The Transhumanist 20:33, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
This project needs another shot in the arm.
So here it goes...
I've contacted all 59 members of the Countries WikiProject to help in designing and conducting contests for the further development of the country outlines.
You are invited too.
The guidelines and outline article still aren't complete.
Which means you will be needed to help explain to the newcomers mentioned above what outlines are and how to develop them.
Please participate in the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries#Hosting country coverage contests.
The Transhumanist 22:20, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
To promote work on the country outlines, maybe a contest between country WikiProjects could be run, to see which WikiProject could develop the best country outline.
What do you think?
(I look forward to your reply on my talk page).
The Transhumanist 23:49, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
![]() |
What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar | |
message The Transhumanist 23:12, 19 May 2009 (UTC) |
{{ What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar}}
Someone changed the picture. (See the first version in the file history).
While the new picture works great for the technology barnstar, I don't think those tech guys knew that the pic was also used in this other barnstar award.
Can you make a new image using the original version? Or a version of this...
Someone tried to revive the original at
File:"What a Brilliant Idea!" Barnstar.png, but they failed to reproduce the transparent background.
Would you revive/reproduce the barnstar, with transparent background?
Good luck.
Have fun.
The Transhumanist 23:09, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Maybe...
I was experiencing mental block on the article draft for "outline" and on the outline guideline draft. And this was holding the whole project back. Without these (which are intended to explain the type of lists known as outlines in detail), the danger is higher that a controversy could go the wrong way.
I requested help on them, but there was none forthcoming.
So I went ahead and started us on the next phase of operations without those 2 pages...
Our AWB'ers and I have placed about 1600 notices all over Wikipedia. And the plan is to place several thousand more.
This generated only one complaint, but it was a very vocal one, and attracted a few other detractors who seemed unfamiliar with the concept of hierarchical outlines and their benefits. However, just as many or more editors came to the defense of the OOK, and there was no consensus formed. But, dab is still trying to rally opposition to outlines at the Village Pump. See below...
It appears that the banner placed on the talk page of the Outline of Switzerland caught the attention of an editor named Dbachmann who posted a rather forceful message on my talk page, another on WT:WPOOK, another at WP:VPP, and still another at WP:AN!
He went well out of his way to use negative hype to cause a stir.
It appears that Mr. Bachmann doesn't understand the nature of hierarchical outlines and their applications. And though he implied that he has never seen an OOK outline before, he was involved with a discussion on these when they were called "lists of basic topics".
His primary argument is that outlines are content forks of articles, and violate WP:CFORK.
But "topic lists", of which outlines are a type, have been around for almost as long as Wikipedia, and fall under the WP:LISTS and WP:STAND guidelines. They aren't intended as forks, as they are lists, bringing the benefits of lists to the corresponding subjects, such as grouping and navigation.
Someone suggested an MfD, but lists are articles, and are within the jurisdiction of AfD. Only the portal page, which merely lists the outline articles, falls within the scope of the MfD department.
The administrator's noticeboard was considered the wrong venue for the discussion, and the discussion was closed.
But Dab's discussion at the Village Pump is still active. Hopefully level heads will prevail there too.
Am I disheartened or deterred? Hell no. I say "full steam ahead!"
But we really need to finish the article draft and the guideline. Otherwise there will continue to be confusion.
Over the next week or two, we'll be posting another 1600 or so notices. It's a good thing we didn't send out 10,000 of them all at once. :)
The Transhumanist 23:18, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
P.S.: Another related thread has popped up at WP:VPR#OoK's expediency. --TT 04:28, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Input on the OOK threads at the Village Pump has died down (at both WP:VPP and WP:VPR), and there is currently no consensus on either.
For the number of notices we posted (over a thousand) the number of complaints we received (the two VP threads mentioned above) was quite low.
Considering most of the outlines are orphans, they get pretty good use.
Note that people who are happy with articles on Wikipedia generally don't say anything, so I simply interpret it as positive feedback.
Using Traffic, I compare the traffic of articles, their corresponding outlines, and their corresponding portals from time to time.
Outlines are starting to catch up to portals. Though the main portals, which are included in a navbar menu at the top of most portals are still way ahead of their outline counterparts.
Both outlines and portals are way behind the articles on the same subjects. Articles usually have 20 to 30 times the traffic.
Keep in mind that most outlines are orphans, with the primary link to them being Portal:Contents/Outline of knowledge.
Traffic should improve once we include links on the corresponding subject pages, including the main subject as well as subjects that correspond to subheadings (e.g., History of x, and in the case of countries: Geography of x, Demographics of x, Culture of x, etc.)
I'm convinced the traffic of outlines will overtake portals once we've link-integrated them into the encyclopedia. And since outlines serve as tables of contents for each subject, it seems most fitting to place links to them in the form of hatnotes at the top of each subject's main articles (and the sub-subjects mentioned in the paragraph directly above).
By the way, there's another traffic counter called Wikirank, but I haven't tested it out much yet, but will do so in the coming weeks.
Once the traffic of outlines has overtaken portals, it will be time to replace portals on the Main Page, even if we need to spearhead a new main page redesign! This isn't a far-fetched idea. I was the one who jumpstarted and led the project responsible for the current main page design (until it hit critical mass and attracted other leaders), and I was also the most active editor on that project. I even created the WP:CBB on the Community Portal to promote the main page election. The second time around should be easier.
Targetting the Main Page is a few months off.
Right now, we need to continue posting notices and start link-integrating the OOK into the encyclopedia.
I have a whole slew of AWB tasks to assign. I hope you are ready. :)
WP:WPOOK needs members. Tell all your friends about the OOK, and get them to join.
The Transhumanist 02:47, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Outlines was growing so large that I split this section off as a separate page.
I look forward to your feedback and improvements.
The Transhumanist 22:36, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
As a contributor to Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/RFC_on_use_of_sports_team_logos, you have been included in a request for formal mediation regarding the subject at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Use of Sports Logos. With your input and agreement to work through mediation, it is hoped we can achieve a lasting solution. -- Hammersoft ( talk) 13:39, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Awards
Let me know what you think.
The Transhumanist 03:10, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Penubag,
We could sure use a userbox for the outline of knowledge wikiproject.
And an advert added to Template:Wikipedia ads would be cool. My guess is you'll find this one interesting and challenging (most of the adverts are animated!). The template is displayed on over 2000 user pages, so that would be quite a bit of exposure. Please look into it and let me know what you think.
Last but not least, we need an invitation template, to invite people to the project. It would be nice if it had an image on there.
Not to overload you or anything. :)
The Transhumanist 02:47, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
See each page, and then look at them in the edit window.
I didn't place any more because this is a test run to see how the hatnotes and their placement work (they're placed after any redir and disambig notes), and to gather feedback.
The Transhumanist 04:11, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
A 'normal' wiki usually doesn't have a core structure, and so people don't expect it, but Wikipedia has quite a lot of material, and various ways of organizing it. Having a link in the sidebar to the contents page will help people to discover what organization there is. (whether perfect or not a separate topic). And, actually, pointing people to the contents page and getting their resulting comments will improve the page. Don't wait for the improvements first... Shenme 04:47, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
The big push continues.
And it seems to be working!
The good news is that there's growing support for outlines, and there are more editors than ever editing them!
The bad news is that the complainers are disproportionately represented on the project's various talk pages. While many editors work diligently on the front end, a handful of complainers are trying to tear down the project behind the scenes. Fortunately, barely enough supporters have been watching those pages that no consensus for moving or merging the outlines has succeeded. So far...
Most of the opposition seems to be unaware of the complete range of what outlines are used for. They just don't get it.
This is why it is important to complete the outline article draft. An article with a comprehensive treatment of outlines would be the perfect place to refer anybody unfamiliar with outlines to.
Opposers also don't seem to understand how outlines differ from some other page type that they prefer. Some think articles are good enough as an overview, others think portals are more in-depth, still others think categories or navigation boxes are the most efficient and useful way to organize and present topical information. Some have simply never seen an "Outline of" page before and think they are a new type of page (they've been around under other names since 2001).
If you run across anyone who doesn't understand the role of outlines on Wikipedia, Wikipedia:Why do we have outlines in addition to...? might help reduce their misconceptions or uncertainties about outlines.
To add the outlines and related support pages to your watchlist (takes less than 30 seconds), cut and paste them from Wikipedia:WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Watchlist into your raw watchlist. For a way to improve the display of your watchlist - by namespace (very useful) - see Watchlist sorter, or use the "super fast upgrade" at WP:OTS.
Or go to Wikipedia:WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Watchlist using Related changes (currently without the talk pages) and click on "Related changes" in the toolbox menu on the sidebar on the left side of your screen.
The big push started with about a thousand banners and notices being placed on article talk pages all over Wikipedia.
But it didn't stop there...
The following Wikipedians have joined the OOK team.
Be sure to stop by their talk pages and introduce yourselves.
I asked a bunch of mentors at WP:ADOPT for advice. Several of them answered on my talk page. Most of those who replied were happy to help, and posted some very good ideas. A couple even joined the project.
Here are their ideas, and what is being done about them. A few of the tasks still need volunteers:
To the tops of about 30 subject articles, I placed a test batch of hatnotes leading to the corresponding outlines. The hatnotes look like this:
The rationale for the hatnotes is that each outline is a topical guide for its subject, and since tables of contents go at the front of a book, a link to each outline should be placed at the front of its subject.
Unfortunately, not all editors agree. Some of the hatnotes have already disappeared. :(
Note that the "Lists of topics" are of two types, including outlines and indexes, so discussions to remove, move, or merge those are usually relevant to the OOK. Also, outlines are a type of list, so discussions that affect lists in general also pertain to outlines. We've got to be on our toes!
I've excluded links to live discussions, out of respect for WP:CANVASS.
Here's a directory of outline support pages:
The Transhumanist 03:26, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Penubag,
Please follow the watchlist editing instructions at #On the bright side, you've got to see this..., above.
Then check your watchlist every time you log on.
Thank you.
The Transhumanist 01:47, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for replying exclusively on my talk page but I didn't want to start a bunch of new sections. -- penubag ( talk) 18:08, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
^^ Despite requests to make it shorter, it is in fact longer. :( It's just too hard to cut stuff out. -- penubag ( talk) 07:14, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
I posted a proposal to add outlines to next year's WikiCup, and nobody there seems to understand outlines.
Help.
The Transhumanist 04:11, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Penubag,
Here's the notice I sent out to the team concerning that need you created... :)
As you know, Penubag is working on a banner to advertise the Outline WikiProject. And he's almost done.
The banner prominently presents the "Outline of chocolate", which of course will become the most widely advertised outline as soon as the banner goes live. The first thing many editors will do after seeing the banner is look for that outline.
The problem is, we don't have one.
So that's our first outline collaboration!
I started a draft this morning.
It needs to be finished and moved to the article namespace before we can start using Penubag's banner ad!
Come join in on the fun. It's chocolate!
The Transhumanist 21:50, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
thanks for all your work on this i am not sure quite where i should post now
i think i got it wrong in the german it is erzaszcaffe i just mispelled.
SimonTrew ( talk) 16:46, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Is it a different file?
The Transhumanist 23:41, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I've merged (and redirected) your draft into the main WikiProject page. ( WP:WPOOK).
Feel free to organize it as you see fit (including moving stuff to subpages or whatever you have in mind).
So far, so good!
Thank you.
Good luck.
Have fun.
The Transhumanist 22:41, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
For some reason, they've been answering on my talk page about the banner. Only 2 so far, but they love it, and my guess is so will everybody else.
Nicely done, Penubag.
So I guess this means...
Put it on the air. Take it live. Hook it up. Install it. Or whatever you call it! :)
Thank you.
Good luck.
Have fun.
The Transhumanist 02:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
![]() |
The Teamwork Barnstar | |
is hereby awarded to Penubag for working so well with everyone on the OOK WikiProject, in the utilization of feedback on graphics creations, and jumping in to help wherever needed. Thank you! The Transhumanist 21:54, 16 June 2009 (UTC) |
In Wikipedia:WikiProject Outline of knowledge#Why does Wikipedia need outlines?, the water example is mostly irrelevant, because the way 99% of readers access a subject is via a search box (Google's, or Wikipedia's). If you type in "Water", you'll get the water article, which has a link to water (properties) right at the top. So why do we need an outline on water? (Or on any subject for that matter).
An "Outline of water" would be very useful. But for what? :)
The section needs to explain why we need outlines in addition to (or in relation to) search engines.
The Transhumanist 22:36, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
See what Susan had to say about the OOK here.
The Transhumanist 18:54, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
This looks just great, Y've done a great job there !!! Galoubet ( talk) 12:57, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
I just got a little regex lesson from the guys over at WP:VPT, and I've copied it to User:The Transhumanist/Regexes.
Enjoy.
The Transhumanist 19:29, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Hey transhumanist thanks for your note on my talk page. i have left a cpouple of thoughts on the article talk page i appreciate it is early days so havent cleaned up the page at all but more than happy to sub it at the appropriate time. i was thinking that the banner should be white on purple cadburys style (that is quite global in the us they licence to hersheys) but that may be even as colours a copyright or trademark infringement i am not sure. SimonTrew ( talk) 05:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Several members of the WikiProject have been hard at work.
Buaidh has been building and refining the outlines on the U.S. States, the states' historical outlines, and the Historical outline of the United States. Lately, his edits have dominated the project's watchlist readout. (I think he's overdue for a barnstar or two. hint hint)
Penubag has been working on medals for all the main branches of the OOK, and has completed the OOK WikiProject's animated advert banner (see below).
Highfields has been filling in the currencies for each country on their respective outlines.
NuclearWarfare and Thehelpfulone have been busy with WP:AWB, posting banners and notices, and helping our sister project, the Index WikiProject, get established. Indexes work hand-in-hand with the outlines and are prominently linked to from the top of most of them. And the outlines, which serve as tables of contents, are only as good as the pages they link to.
Since we started integrating (linking) the OOK and its support pages into the encyclopedia and into the Wikipedia community, activity on outlines has been increasing. Though there's still much left to do.
But I digress. There are a couple more...
Stefan is building the Outline of sharks.
MacMed has joined our advanced wiki-tools team, and is currently adding links to outlines in the corresponding subject articles' see also sections.
Be sure to stop by their talk pages and say "hi".
Penubag has finished this WikiProject's animated advert banner, and it is now being displayed on the Wikipedia ads template which in turn is displayed on about 2000 user pages. Each time someone access one of those pages, there is a 1 in 184 chance of them viewing this:
![]() | |
Wikipedia ads | file info – #184 |
If you'd like to display the banner on your userpage locked-on to the ad as above, use the following code:
{{Wikipedia ads|ad=184}}
If you haven't already, please add the entire project's watchlist to your watchlist. Here's how:
I forgot to mention this step above. :)
I can't make heads or tails of 'em, but these links were on Portal:Contents/Outline of knowledge:
I discovered an AfD discussion on possibly the first article named "Outline of", which was called Outline of Islamic and Muslim related topics, and which was created 4 years ago. Of course they deleted it. But now it has many friends, and so it has risen from the dead. :)
See the DRV discussion at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2009 June 7#Outline of Islamic and Muslim related topics.
Recruiters needed. Drop me a note if you are interested.
I'm impressed with the level of enthusiasm and work going into the outlines. I'm proud to be working with each of you.
The Transhumanist 21:44, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Here's why:
Wikipedia talk:Outlines#top of article reference to outline is unnecessary spam.
I was very disappointed that I had to fight that one alone. Especially since the project lost.
It presents us with a setback.
The Transhumanist 22:48, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
You mentioned you planned on waiting (years) to push the issue of better linking.
My opinion is that you shouldn't wait. Waiting just delays results (most of the time).
I'm not going to wait years for better link positioning. I've been working on this project 4 years already!
The important issue is what is best for the readers of the encyclopedia.
Should we wait until the quality of the outlines relative to the corresponding main subject articles is equal (or better)?
How would that help the reader?
It wouldn't. Hidden or buried outlines don't help those who don't find them.
If the outlines are useful for finding subject matter, then the links to them should be placed where they will do the reader the most good - that is, where they are relevant.
One argument against this approach is that an unfinished outline does more harm than good, pulling readers away from a page that will serve them better (the main subject article).
But there have been no studies done on this. There is no quantified data on how well readers are served by the two page types. It's all guesswork.
Politics.
Push push push.
The Transhumanist 22:48, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
P.S.: Influence builds over time, not by waiting to influence, but by effort to influence. The more you try to influence, the more influence you acquire. It's an active (not a passive) process.
When are you taking it live?
The Transhumanist 22:57, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Oh, you mean that old page? That's been my front userpage for a long time but after a while I felt it was too "in your face" kind of thing, and more revealing than I'd like. But I still kept it so anyone who's really interested enough about me could still click that bird and go straight to that page. (You did know clicking the bird brought you to the page right?) Oh well, lots of people must click it since I still get a few emails once in a while asking me if they can use my work on their site. -- penubag ( talk) 07:08, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Please rename:
to:
Wikipedia:WikiProject Outline of knowledge/User member
Yup, I will do that. You must of viewed that userbox in Internet Explorer or something because it looked beautiful in Firefox and looked humongous in IE (which is what your edit summary said when you removed the images). I was intending on fixing it for IE but hadn't got around to it, but I think I'll have to make a new image there. I'll move the page once it's done. (Damn IE... ) -- penubag ( talk) 07:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
"This user has created {{{1}}} outlines."
This one goes in user space:
"This user likes browsing outlines"
The Transhumanist 23:24, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, expect all those done soon! -- penubag ( talk) 07:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
This outline is approaching completion.
I added a bunch more links, finding them with the following Google site-specific searches of Wikipedia:
(You can use the wikicode for the links above as the basis for new searches - just replace "Gibraltar" with any other country or region name).
The redlinks need to be bluelinked where possible. The most useful way is to create redirects leading to the material (which is usually included in a section of an article - see Wikipedia:Redirect#Redirects to page sections. That way, when the redirect pages are replaced by the actual articles, the links will already point to the right places.
Please take a crack at it, and bluelink a few.
Thank you.
Good luck.
Have fun.
The Transhumanist 00:40, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
I had a hard time breaking the ice and getting people to use Linky, until after I wrote this tutorial: WP:LINKY.
Now I include LINKY and the steps for using it directly in the tasks I assign. And my assignees are actually using it!
If we had a similar tutorial on UpdateScanner, we could incorporate it into our operations much more easily.
Feel up to it? :)
The Transhumanist 18:10, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Makes me feel like I'm visiting a foreign country. :)
Which reminds me, I'm way overdue for a trip.
The only problems I could find were pretty minor:
![]() |
Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know that you did something silly. |
(I couldn't resist). :)
By the way, I really like the little asterisks with the pop-up notes. Nice touch.
The Transhumanist 23:15, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm feeling really stupid right now, especially with trout slime on my face thanks to TT. :) also since I deleted my layered file thinking "why would I need to keep this?"... Anyways, the overflow doesn't work because it doesn't need to right now. Once the names fill horizontally, it will work. Just being prepared for when it does. Addressing the users against the tooltips, the tooltips are trivial, the information they present are just "FYI", "in case you wanted to know", or "explain a little" type thing. They're no biggy. -- penubag ( talk) 07:56, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Hmmm... I don't see that (in my screenshot above), but it might be your browser. If so, adjust the volunteer section so it works in your browser. Care to show me a screenshot? -- penubag ( talk) 00:27, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I've replied [on your talk page] to Willsc. about it. I don't think the bullets are as concise as the explanations nor hold as well against debates. Maybe we need a hybrid? Also, the volunteer section should be working and fully aligned now. (just bypass your cache). I will work on the contest section now. But before I do that, the contest is going to be a Wikiproject vs. Wikiproject thing/"subject representatives" contest right? I need a bit more info before can I construct the rest of the contest and the page.-- penubag ( talk) 10:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Work is proceeding apace...
The current consensus is that we can't place a hatnote leading to an outline at the top of a subject articles unless the outline being presented is of at least the same quality-level as the article.
Improve outline quality by completing them.
Place hatnotes for the outlines of high enough quality.
Guidelines pertaining to outlines need to be updated. Outlines emerged as a class of pages only a few months ago, and most of the relevant guidelines don't cover them specifically. For example, Wikipedia:Stand-alone lists is incredibly out of date.
Invite wikignomes, wikielves, and wikifairies (all 2500+ of them) to help on the outlines .
Identify 600 more subjects with coverage extensive enough to justify outlines, create rudimentary drafts for them, and post notices to the corresponding WikiProjects and subject talk pages to help build them.
Convert outlines titled "List of" to outline articles, and add them to the OOK. There are a few hundred of these. Conversion instructions are needed.
Add a description of outlines to About Wikipedia and Wikipedia:Basic navigation, and add tips about outlines to the WP:TOTD and Tips library.
The Transhumanist 20:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Hello. I am one of the developers of the NICE tool and the related study's contact person. I see that you have installed our tool in your second account ( User:Penubag Sock). I hope you have been finding the modification helpful so far. We have been gathering users for a little over a month now, but we haven't gotten as many users as we had hoped. We'd appreciate it if you would share the NICE tool with any editors that might find it useful. -- E poch F ail ( talk| contribs) 17:09, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Minnecologies has done an incredible amount of work on Outline of forestry and posted a note to me on my talk page requesting feedback.
I've posted my observations at Talk:Outline of forestry#Finished outline review.
Please take a look at the outline and let Minnecologies know what you think of it on the outline's talk page.
Thank you.
The Transhumanist 19:37, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Delivered by JCbot ( talk) at 20:16, 29 June 2009 (UTC).
I'm sorry that I haven't been available to assign tasks lately. For the past 3 days (not including today) I've been almost totally consumed in discussions concerning the location and very existence of outlines. Today I finally broke free and got back to work on outlines. Felt good.
A great deal has been happening with outlines and behind the scenes. I just don't have time to tell you all about it this time around. Here's the best I can do...
If you'd like a bird's eye view of everything that's happening with respect to outlines, see this page:
Or go to these pages (and click on "Related changes" in the sidebar's toolbox menu):
These outline articles, which were named "List of...", have been converted to an OOK format:
I know you stress everyone to watch the ook pages but they're reluctant to do so because they don't want to clutter their watchlists. If they are told about the addon, SiteDelta, then they may change their minds. I've written a guide here User:Penubag/SiteDelta but it's not very good. Anyone can really find out how to use it on their own so it's not really a problem. What do you say? -- penubag ( talk) 09:18, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
There are a lot of "List of" articles that are outlines. Some of them are on the same subjects as the "Outline of" articles. The following one have been recently merged:
The Transhumanist 01:14, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
On wp:ook the Health section and the People and Self section are very short but are pretty much the same. Can those topics be renamed and merged? -- penubag ( talk) 07:23, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
More and more editors are discovering outlines and working on them!
I've come across some that I feel compelled to award barnstars for.
I awarded one at User talk:Tiamut#You deserve this..., but it didn't feel like it was coming from WP:WPOOK.
Please have a look.
The Transhumanist 23:48, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Is it safe to assume that Buaidh deserves a World Development medal? (Take a look at his contribs. If so, I think it would have more impact if we all signed it. The Transhumanist 23:48, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Speaking of absorption, take a look at Outline of cell biology.
We've been having a problem with glossaries over the years. Every so often, there is a wave activism to move glossaries to wiktionary (which is essentially a graveyard for them), and the wave must be fought back. I'm usually involved in the rescue efforts by default because of my role in list development and administration.
But we may now have a solution...
The outline above suggests that at least some glossaries could be merged into outlines, or even be converted into new outlines (in cases where none exist for the subject yet).
The Transhumanist 23:48, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Thank you so much. You can't imagine how much it means to me to have my work recognized by the community. I'm so happy I decided to come back. Thanks again. Tiamut talk 00:14, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Phase two of outline integration (de-orphanizing outlines by adding links leading to them into article see also sections) is nearly complete. The better that outlines are integrated into the encyclopedia, the more use they will be to readers.
Due to greater exposure through outline integration, and with most of the OOK team on school summer vacation, development activity on outlines has increased a lot...
Thank you.
Here's what else has been going on...
There are a lot of contradictions in guidelines related to outlines. I'll be turning my attention to fixing those.
The number of "Outline of" articles is rapidly catching up to portals, and will probably pass them by the end of the summer!
Keep up the excellent work.
The Transhumanist 00:43, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Have a great trip! The Transhumanist 19:52, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
We might be able to use them in the encyclopedia.
The Transhumanist 19:53, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Can I take the whole sandbox? Or would you like to keep that, and place the medal for Buaidh on a new subpage?
Since we're all going to sign it, it should be on a page of its own, and then transferred to WikiProject space, and from there transcluded on to the WikiProject's Hall of Fame page (we don't have one yet) and Buaidh's talk page.
Also, could you make Buaidh's name bigger on the medal, below Africa?
The Transhumanist 20:05, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Bigger still? There's more room under Africa. The Transhumanist 20:24, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Under Africa is more centralized, and will catch the eye better - it will be much easier to notice, and won't feel like an afterthought - like it caught your eye and then you looked at it. The Transhumanist 20:27, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
I've replied to your Outline barnstar post at:
The Transhumanist 20:23, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
I was looking for the medal with Jimbo on it, so I typed in WP:JIMBO and found something entirely unexpected.
The Transhumanist 20:38, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
...and another. The Transhumanist 22:26, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on File:Nintendo Wii motionplus.jpg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section I5 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an image which is not under a free license or in the public domain and it has not been used in any article for more than seven days.
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{
hangon}}
to the top of
the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on
the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. -
KULSHRAX
talk 21:44, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Here's a first go. Please see if you can make it look more impressive and award-like (fonts, borders, etc.).
By the way, I have to log off and be out of here in 48 minutes.
The Transhumanist 22:12, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Delivered by – Juliancolton | Talk at 21:42, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for helping me and my colleagues test the NICE interface modification. Depending on when you installed the tool, you were only presented with a specific subset of the features we have developed. We are ready to roll out the full feature set which, we expect, will make the gadget significantly more useful. Before we do that, we'd like you to answer a few questions about your activity in Wikipedia as it relates to undoing other's edits and what you thought of the NICE features you were shown.
The survey will ask for your Wikipedia username, but you can participate anonymously if you choose. To do so, send me an email with an address I can respond to and I will have the survey software respond with an anonymous token for you to continue. -- E poch F ail ( talk| contribs) 17:50, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Wow, thank you. I hope you like the outline as much as I liked making it. Thanks again. Highfields ( talk, contribs) 15:30, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Hi Penubag,
I'm back from wikibreak, and now's a perfect opportunity for you to brag about yours. :) I'm jealous. Where all did you visit?
Getting back to wikistuff, I'll be spending the next few days exploring uncharted areas of Wikipedia.
More soon...
The Transhumanist 15:15, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
Please take a look at Outline of Dewey Decimal classes and Library of Congress Classification.
Being defacto outlines of knowledge, they list major subjects. (Side note: I've been linking the subjects to the corresponding outlines, making these alternate OOK top ends).
Do you see any subjects that you would especially like to see outlines for? If so, please let me know what they are.
The Transhumanist 15:33, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:Another medallion draft.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Skier Dude ( talk) 06:08, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Time for some catching up...
Congratulations and kudos to Buaidh, the first recipient of the Wikipedia World Developer Award, and the first inductee into the Outline of Knowledge WikiProject's Hall of Fame.
The award was announced about 2 months agos on the WikiProject's talk page, and on Wikipedia's Community Bulletin Board.
Buaidh created the historical outlines for all of the U.S. States, the U.S. capital, and most of the U.S. insular areas. He has also worked indefatigably day after day, improving all of the outlines of the U.S. States, and the outlines of all of the countries of the world!
Discussions can sure be frustrating - try getting a proposal through on a guideline's talk page sometime. Most of the time, it seems like the opposition is mindlessly following each other, like...
Zombies. (You've got to see this).
Yes, it's a proper noun. It's only proper, since we also have an article called Outline of knowledge which is about knowledge generically.
After a couple month vacation, I'm ready to slam the gas pedal to the floor. Are you?
Things are speeding up!
Take a look...
The following outlines have been added to the OOK within the past couple of months or so. Some of them were renames, some of them brand new, and some of them recently discovered after sitting in article space for awhile as orphans.
Here's some more pages that have been renamed to outlines even more recently, but that need to be converted to OOK format:
The following pairs of pages are content forks and need to be merged:
Only a few hundred more to go. :)
The Transhumanist 04:46, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
I think there's something you've missed. :) The Transhumanist 18:02, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
The Transhumanist 23:09, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Reinstate the valid tags immediately. Editwarring to remove valid tags is pathetic. There is no central place to discuss these pages with the community, so they are being handled on a case by case basis. An alternative is List of chocolate topics. Verbal chat 09:06, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Please stop moving articles from "list of" to "outline of" without consensus, even after you have been made aware that these articles were originally lists. I have already stated that until there has been discussion I will not do the opposite, and only did it with 2 articles I think. The multiple contentious article moves should be reverted until discussion takes place, as they are controversial and not discussed. Thank you, Verbal chat 11:00, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
I will not move any more pages in this manner. I agree that the status quo needs to be reestablished and hope all parties agree -- penubag ( talk) 21:47, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi Penubag! Thanks a lot for removing the text from the Kanzan stamp. If it is not too much work, could you upload a new image (over File:Portrait of Kanzan-no text-.jpg) like your edit, but with the red marks at the bottom right left intact. These are part of the painting and were not added during the design of the postage stamp. bamse ( talk) 09:44, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Just noticed that you also focused Matsumoto castle. You focused the correct structures (I like the way of foscusing, btw), but I'd need two pictures: (i) highlight only the left two-storied tower (=the central of the three towers in the original photograph), (ii) highlight only the right single-storied tower (=the one with the red handrail). I am sorry for not being very precise in the request at the graphics lab. bamse ( talk) 10:04, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Since you did a great job with File:Matsumoto-Castle-center.jpg and File:Matsumoto-Castle-far right.jpg, can you do the same with File:Enjoji Nara06s4592.jpg, i.e. focus the right (=Hakusandō (白山堂)) and left (=Kasugadō (春日堂)) structure in two separate pictures? I'd need it for List of National Treasures of Japan (shrines). bamse ( talk) 11:41, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Okay, I'm a bit busy these next few days but I will surely get to it asap. Thanks for your patients! -- penubag ( talk) 02:03, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
May I add another focusing request? Please make three pictures out of File:NikkoKaramonHaidenHonden.jpg for List of National Treasures of Japan (shrines). In the first focus only the fence (Tōzai Sukibei (東西透塀)). In the second focus only the gate (Karamon). In the third focus the building behind the fence and gate (Haiden, not much more than the roof visible). Thanks. PS: I marked the parts to be focused via image annotations. bamse ( talk) 21:20, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Two more requests: 1. in
File:Nijo Castle.jpg focus the small building in the center ("Reception room" marked with image annotations), 2. in
File:Nijo Castle J09 40.jpg focus the "Retainers' room" (marked with image annotations. rightmost of the three buildings (the building in which there is the "Retainers' room", but focus the whole building) Thanks.
bamse (
talk) 19:28, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi, it's me again ;-) Maybe we should open a dedicated focusing-request-page or you teach me how to focus the pictures myself. This time, I'd like two pictures out of
File:Matsumoto Castle 04.jpg. Pic 1: Focus the leftmost (3 storey) tower (Northwest Small Tower), pic 2: Focus the intermediate, connecting (2-storey) structure (Connecting Tower). As usual the structures are marked by annotations and take your time. None of these requests is really urgent.
bamse (
talk) 23:02, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
As you participated in the recent
Audit Subcommittee election, or in one of two
requests for comment that relate to the use of
SecurePoll for elections on this project, you are invited to participate in the
SecurePoll feedback and workshop. Your comments, suggestions and observations are welcome.
For the Arbitration Committee,
Risker (
talk) 08:30, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
ks.com really a commerce site to buy/sell/trade animals and supplies. Even the article in question about henckels has banner ads, etc all over it. I did not see any information in the kingsnake article not already included in the wiki article, nor in the other two links. I don't want to get into a pissing match over this, if you want to revert me a third time, go for it...I just think it's not advancing the reader's knowledge of the subject by much.. Thanks for helping with the other dead link.-- Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 01:43, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Hey Penubag, I'm new to Wikipedia. I have a quick question about Verifiability: I know self-published sources cannot be used as a reliable reference, but I found a website; a indymedia (this Wikipedia article is pretty messy) site here based in Los Angeles with a ton of content. I can't figure out if it's a self-published type situation, or not. Though, It does allow users to post their own content (this might be the killer). I do not know if it can be used as a reliable source. What do you think? Much thanks. NoFlyingCars ( talk) 09:15, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
![]() |
The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar | |
Given with respect and admiration to Penubag for converting and uploading File:Ricketts Glen - Ice Waterfall on Flickr - Photo Sharing.ogv despite a broken laptop. If I can be of assistance to you, please let me know, thanks! Ruhrfisch ><>°° 02:46, 23 November 2009 (UTC) |
Thanks for your appreciation! I'm happy to have helped! -- penubag ( talk) 03:29, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for cleaning up the picture of the waterfall under the bridge!
Ruhrfisch
><>°° 18:58, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
![]() |
<font=3> Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and all the best in 2010! Yours, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 23:22, 24 December 2009 (UTC) |
![]() |
---|
The Transhumanist 02:01, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
Yes, but I expect it to be fixed by thursday, although I will continue to be extremely busy for the next week. The terminals here are really nice though and have Photoshop etc so I have most all the tools I need, just not a lot of time to use them. -- penubag ( talk) 10:02, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
Hey, hope you're well. Just an FYI...I was using a source from kingsnake.com in an article that is now at FAC: Cyclura nubila, the page in question was a page put together by a Catholic Priest with a degree in biology about animals in the Caribbean. Obviously not a simplistic page written by a teenage pet owner. One lone reviewer dinged it as not being a "High Quality Source" even though I was only using it to support a Greek language translation. Something to think about.-- Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 16:35, 20 December 2009 (UTC)