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I think ziyarat has a wider significance than just prophets and companions. I believe that the term is also used for Shi'a pilgrimages to graves of Fatima, all the imams, Zaynab, etc. Graves of pirs or Sufi saints are also the object of pilgrimage. There's a lot of material that could be brought in here. I can get cites from 19th century travel books that describe extremely primitive pilgrimage sites in places like Yemen or Baluchistan, where the grave may just be marked by a circle of stones, and where there's a tree or a sort of wooden stand for offerings -- strips of cloth torn off and knotted to the tree or stand.
But before I start doing that, I'd like to hear from other editors. I believe I'm using ziyarat correctly, but I could be wrong. Another term may be used for pilgrimages to the graves of pirs. Zora 09:05, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
According to this Dictionary of Islamic Architecture, Ziyaret means the actual place ("venerated shrine or mausoleum") presumably where one visits when going on ziyarat. Is it worth including an article for this term ? If this (the Ziyarat) article has enough information about various places where one can visit when going on Ziyarat, then maybe a list of places could be listed in a future article Ziyaret. I happen to have a book that lists various Sunni and Shia Ziyaret. MP (talk) 12:16, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
Pay close attention please :) - Ziyarah is an extant redirect to Ziarah, this latter of which I have now merged with Ziyarat (and Ziarah is now a redirect to Ziyarat). I plan to create an article called Ziyaret (places that are visited on Ziyarat). Also, watch out for an article called Ziarat - a town in Pakistan ! MP (talk) 09:51, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
I've just fixed the 'double redirect' from Ziyarah to Ziyarat. Also, we can use this site to check out a whole heap of ziyaret. MP (talk) 09:56, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
I'll check Dehkhoda, but as far as I know, the physical site for performing a Ziyarat is called Ziyarat-gah (similar to Khan-gah) or Ziyarat-khaneh, if we're talking about Persian words. In persian, there is only one word for pilgrimage, and that is Ziyarat (Ziyarah or Ziyarah are non-Persian equivalents. The t must be pronounced).
But I dont know where this Ziyaret term is coming from. Sounds like a Turkish mutation to me (similar to Takyeh, which has been mutated into Tekke). And it's not Arabic either (in its kasreh form), because grammatically it is incorrect (it doesnt have the esm-un makan [spatial-name] form of "Maf'il" or "Maf'al" e.g. Masjid [mosque], Madkhal [entrance], the desert of Mah-shar, Maktab [elementary school], Matbakh [kitchen or restaurant], Marta' [grazing land], Mahfil [roundtable], etc)
We also have the associated words Zavvār and Zā'ir, which means the person who performs Ziyarat. The Arabic equivalent is "Zawwār".
But "Ziyaret" (meant as a place of ziyarat) seems to be a Turkish word, and is not widely used.-- Zereshk 01:20, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I agree with the merger. ||||
I rewrote the article extensively. It still lacks references -- and pictures. Also, we need a description of exactly what one DOES on ziyarat. I can't write it, because I don't know! Zora 10:41, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Actually Wahabis are following the Iblis, who wants direct connection with Allah. But what has happened to Iblis will happen to All Wahabies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sameer logedin ( talk • contribs) 10:46, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
Zora, the term Wahabi is a misnomer. I would rather it wasn't used to describe the Tawheedi Salafi movement of Muhammad bin Abdul Wahab. It was introduced by the British in India to label the followers of Syed Ahmed Shaheed, who had reactivated Jihad against the British in India.
Second, since we are having POVs here, mine is that although I am against replacement of places of historic interest with Walmarts and parking lots, as you have so eloquently put it, I am also against leaving those things to continue which have led to shirk in the past, are doing so today, and will continue to do so in the future.
It is a fine line between retaining history, and eliminating causes of shirk.
Regarding Ziyarahs, perhaps I could tell you something about what people do, as I have been led by friends to these in a bid to make me follow their pirs. I can tell you that a great deal of what happens is shirk, and is most certainly bid`ah. The details of actions vary, from place to place, from order to order. peacedove 11:19, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
I merged the ziyaret and ziyarat articles and rewrote. The question of terminology has yet to be settled. Editors who actually speak any of the languages involved are invited to correct or add items. Zora 01:59, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
To make a gallery, we need more than one pic per country. At present only India and Iran are such. We need more pics from other places.-- Zereshk 00:27, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Quite a few editors have taken exception to the "controversy" section, trying to remove anything that would reflect negatively on Wahhabis or Salafis. I and others have restored the material.
I just edited it to say that sometimes Wahhabis and Salafis have used political power to destroy shrines and prevent ziyarat. So it isn't a blanket statement any longer. It might help prevent further attempts at censorship if we actually gave a list, with good references, of Wahhabi/Salafi initiatives of this sort. If there are Salafi editors reading this who think that Salafism does NOT mean using force to prevent other Muslims from doing ziyarat, then it would be helpful if we could have some quotes (referenced and translated) from Salafi authorities decrying the destruction of shrines and interference with other Muslims' faith. If there is a debate within the Salafi world on the use of force and political power, let's document it here. Zora 02:51, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
How Wahabis can qoute us the any references from the scholars like Imam Bukhar who himself is of Ahlesunnat wal Jamat sect.Imam Bhukahri (R.A.) was also the follower of Imam Shafie (R.A.) Means He was a Muqlid, whereas these wahabis are all 'Gair Mukallid', and how then Imam Bukhari's (R.A.) tomb exist in a very well maintaned shape( Alhamduallah). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sameer logedin ( talk • contribs) 10:43, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
Truthspreader, you need to explain on the talk page why you disagree so violently with ziyarat as "poor man's hajj." You can't just slap up a notice and walk away. I'm surprised by your reaction, since I read that bit re "poor man's hajj" many places. I can't figure out what upsets you about the reporting. Is it that you don't think anyone ever believed that ziyarat could replace the hajj?
Opiner, I don't think that there's anything POV about describing Muhammad as a prophet in lowercase. He was accepted as such by his followers. If the Hebrew prophets can be described as prophets (lower-case) so can Muhammad. It's just Prophet that has the appearance of piety and that we try not to use in WP. Zora 07:36, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I believe that my reason for removing the sites is strongly based in the What Wikipedia is not policy. WP:NOTDIRECTORY says articles are not "Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics". WP:NOTTRAVEL says articles are not "Travel guides". WP:INDISCRIMINATE says articles are not "Excessive listings of statistics". I think the list of sites falls partially into a number of these items, and so I believe the lists should be removed. — Torchiest talk edits 16:59, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
There are quite deep and extensive divisions within Islam about ziyarat (ziarah). In many contexts it is a way of defining whether your are one or the other a supporter of or detractor of ziarah, by whether you have a site you can identify with. For a while some non english speaking editors started adding every site that they knew of that related to ziarah in their country - and it expanded. I think the extistence of the long list should not be denied - but simply created as a separate list....
To delete the accrued list and not-reincorporate into a specific list is missing the point, and not understanding of the motivation of a lot of the adders of material. There is nothing loosely associated about ziarah sites. There is a complex relationship between sites and various practitioners of Islam, and some networks are intrinsically related to a whole lot of other cultural contexts that the average editor or adder might not have the capacity to explain or provide WP:RS for.
As for the summary heading that suggested (after re-instating the list) that specific countries be check individually, there is a need for more WP:RS to clarify the names of sites on the resultant list. Satu Suro 09:54, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
It's rather clear based both on the article content and many of the comments here that some editors have taken it upon themselves to use this article as a soapbox to criticize the salafist movement and meld the subsections for Sunni and Sufi viewpoints together. Needless to say, this behavior is not encyclopedic and shouldn't be tolerated. MezzoMezzo ( talk) 08:59, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
Arminden Arminden ( talk) 07:35, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
I have rewritten the Sunni section of this article as it was reliant almost exclusively on primary sources. The new material is based on the following secondary sources:
I intend to add to this in the near future. MontyKind ( talk) 11:33, 5 August 2018 (UTC)