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De728631 corrected my translation of this term to "operative acts" since it had nothing to do with surgery. I guess I'm a little confused. I was actually translating from the French article where it had been translated "procédures chirurgicales", which is definitely something like "surgical procedures". Certainly it has nothing to do with actually cutting into someone's body, although I do believe that in English sometimes an intelligence operation which is precise and targeted is sometimes called "surgical". But this does not seem to be the meaning of the word in this case. Doing a little more research I'm getting the feeling that the term means nothing more than operational procedures such as would be described in a manual, in this case the Richtlinie Nr. 1/76 zur Entwicklung und Bearbeitung Operativer Vorgänge (OV). If there is no objection, I would prefer "operational procedures" as a translation for this term. CibléEnAmérique ( talk) 07:27, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved per consensus. — innotata 15:39, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
Zersetzung → Zersetzung (Stasi) – Possible disambiguation, since the German word has other meanings. CibléEnAmérique ( talk) 18:23, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
Would any enterprising editor of this article be able to add some references to Stasi#Zersetzung? Thanks. — howcheng { chat} 03:22, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
Were any of the people subjected to this impervious to it? Did anyone manage to overcome the program of intimidation without any harm coming to themselves ? Alternatively, was this program 100% effective ? 86.143.210.230 ( talk) 13:43, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
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Couldn't resist weighing my two cents:[ [1]] The page "Joint Threat Intelligence Research Group" does not exist. You can ask for it to be created, but consider checking the search results below to see whether the topic is already covered. This sort of thing undoubtedly has me seeing red as well, but perhaps this was what you were looking for?
Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group The Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group (JTRIG) is a unit of the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ), the British intelligence agency. 6 KB (687 words) - 11:51, 9 December 2016
Also, how would other editors feel about adding (under the same see also section) Force protection or would that be unacceptedly pushing it. Also Gay bomb and Chemical castration (due to the part about sending the wife a vibrator[ [2]] - "Other practices included property damage, sabotage of cars, purposely incorrect medical treatment, smear campaigns including sending falsified compromising photos or documents to the victim's family, denunciation, provocation, psychological warfare, psychological subversion, wiretapping, bugging, mysterious phone calls or unnecessary deliveries, even including sending a vibrator to a target's wife.")
Further in this vein, Mark I NAAK, Batroxobin (due to the ' short-term memory loss'), also it's progenitor Pichia pastoris due to its efficacy in beer sabotage and proliferation on the internet as a 'medical' snake oil and less obviously Boomslang or dangerously Amanita ocreata (due to the deterioration thanks to the relentlessly persistent denial of health care - or perhaps more appropriately, Denial of health care?). Lytico-Bodig would fit in this case, as would Osteolathyrism and another that has just eluded me - it wasn't cycad?
Also what about Global surveillance disclosures (2013–present), especially with our dear esteemed Marty allegedly out of the picture for a moment. You know what they say about cats and mice away, always the playing. - 55378008a ( talk) 12:26, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
I do not have any doubt this is true, and I wish there were a better or more explicit way to express this in the article.
These are two separate concepts that need to be compared and contrasted in the article.
I have experienced this in the United States. I found myself in a certain political/religious milieu of persons whose fundamental tenets and covert activities I did not agree with. Those individuals who were most polite and friendly to me in the open were covertly undermining the relationships in my life that really mattered, and as a consequence those whose beliefs would have been more in line with mine did not trust me because of my association with those who falsely pretended to be my friends.
We will see more of this as time goes on, not only because of the lack of security of our personal and private information on the internet, but because of its free availability to all who profess some kind of business or government authority. -- 204.96.25.223 ( talk) 17:03, 7 April 2017 (UTC) El Paso, Texas
"Zersetzung is a psychological warfare technique that was first used by Nazi Germany as part of the accusation Wehrkraftzersetzung against political opponents (which typically resulted in death penalties)."
The Nazi accusation and the GDR practice seem to have nothing in common besides the word "Zersetzung". One was a term applied by the Nazi regime to alleged actions of its citizens against it, the other is a term apparently applied in internal documents by the GDR regime itself to its own actions against its citizens. The mention of the Nazis' "Wehrkraftzersetzung" doesn't seem to belong here at all.
Also, there is something wrong in the bibliography, as there are numerous abbreviated references to "Pingel-Schliemann" and the bibliographic data about the work being cited aren't found in expanded form anywhere in the article, making the citations unverifiable. -- 94.155.68.202 ( talk) 01:05, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
The "Use of similar techniques in other countries" seems to contain instances of original research, in that it imputes Zersetzung tactics upon other intelligence operations where the sources cited do not mention Zersetzung, the Stasi, etc. For this reason I removed the initial paragraph about the FBI and Dr. Martin Luther King. Moreover, the FBI's harassment of him started in the 1960s, whereas the lead section of this article notes Zersetzung was operationally formalized in 1971, so without another reference explicitly making the connection, it seems inappropriate to maintain in the article. WhinyTheYounger ( talk) 15:37, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I propose moving the page to 'Zersetzung (decomposition)' because I think that, in general, where there is a foreign language title which is widely unknown providing the English translation is informative and helpful. I see no reason why that is not the case here. There has been some debate as to the most accurate translation of Zersetzung. Decomposition is overwhelmingly the single most used translation in English language sources. RickyBennison ( talk) 13:53, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not Moved, per consensus. ( non-admin closure) signed, Iflaq (talk) 06:07, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
Zersetzung →
Zersetzung (Decomposition) – I propose moving the page to 'Zersetzung (Decomposition)' because Zersetzung is a foreign language word which is widely unknown in English. Providing the overwhelmingly most used translation, decomposition, is informative and helpful. Decomposition is often used in academic English language sources instead of Zersetzung. Sources include Andreas Glaesar, 'Political Epistemics: The Secret Police, the Opposition, and the End of East German Socialism' ('The second form of closure envisioned by the Stasi was called 'decomposition' '). Mike Dennis & Norman Laporte, 'The Stasi: Myth and Reality' ('the Stasi's main method of combating subversive activity was 'operational decomposition' (operative Zersetzung)'). Seth Howes, 'Moving Images on the Margins: Experimental Film in Late Socialist East Germany' ('the Clara Mosch gallery fell victim in 1982 to a two-pronged approach comprising Stasi decomposition tactics and the institutional capture of the producer's gallery from above.'). Gary Bruce, 'The Firm: The Inside Story of the Stasi', ('The work style of the Stasi, which tended toward slow, plodding decomposition of enemies').
A google search of 'Stasi decomposition' shows the translation frequently used. Sometimes singularly, sometimes with Zersetzung. There is no shortage of English language sources which do use it. A search of 'Stasi zersetzung' gives primarily German language sources with a scattering of English language sources. The common usage of 'decomposition' in both academic and more mainstream sources justifies it being part of the article title. RickyBennison ( talk) 16:03, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
IMO the word dissolving would rather describe what the goal of the Stasi was. Dissolving (=Auflösung in German) is very similar to decomposition, but with fine differences.
Decomposting usually means turning something (like food waste) into something else (humus). It does transition from one state to the other by dissolving. The end result though is still something existing. Dissolving describes the same process to break something up into tiny pieces. But in this case nothing is left. It disappears.
That, IMO, describes a little bit deeper the goal of the Stasi. There should be nothing left that could get in the way. By nothing left I mean what is described in the article. No mind left to think and talk about what´s happening, no energy of the individual to actively getting involved in important matters, no social network or support, ... even no physical existence in some cases of suicide. Dee.lite ( talk) 14:12, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
The English term "disruption" meets the topic rather precise on all levels. This word should be the right choice for use. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.130.228.1 ( talk) 18:17, 3 March 2022 (UTC)