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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 04:50, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Fuzhou South Railway Station = " Fuzhou Railway Station" ? 99.112.214.167 ( talk) 22:26, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
fuzhou south station was built in recent year. I live in fuzhou. -- Lxr1234 ( talk) 16:36, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
Just wanted to post a link to a Google News Feed for possible details as this story emerges. –Nav talk to me or sign my guestbook 14:52, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
I don't know anything about this specific incident, but the end of the article states that the train cars were being broken apart by backhoes and buried. Is that common practice for accidents like this? I've never heard of part of an accident scene being deliberately broken apart and buried by the government, and I was wondering if it warranted further elaboration. DeiKobol ( talk) 04:57, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
Here is what the official statement from Rail Ministry from a 7/24/11 10:40PM news conference. and my translation
问:为什么要拆解车厢,掩埋出事动车残骸?
王勇平:当时是从接机人员那听到网上有这样的质疑声,“我问他,怎么会发生如此愚蠢的问题呢?这么举世都知道的事故掩埋得了吗? ”“他告诉我,不是想掩埋,事实上这个事情是无法掩埋的。”对于为什么要掩埋,他们给出了这样的解释:因为当时在现场抢险的情况,环境非常复杂,下面是一个泥塘,施展开来很不方便,还要对其他的车体进行处理,所以他们把车头埋在下面,盖上土,主要是便于抢险。他们给出的解释是这样,你们信不信?我反正是信的。 (Link here http://news.sctv.com/shxw/msmy/201107/t20110725_742466.shtml I have no idea how wiki markup works)
(Reporter) Asks: "Why breakup the carriages and bury the train sections?"
(Rail Ministry Spokesman) Wang Yongping: "I heard about this from local officials quoting questions from the internet. I asked him 'Why would there be such stupid question. Could a thing like this be buried/covered* up?' He said, '(I'm) not trying to bury it, and such a thing can't be buried/covered up.' As for why burying the train section, the expansion is this: At the time of rescue, the environment is very complicated. There is a pond (under the bridge), and it's difficult to maneuver (heavy equipment), and the (passenger sections) needs to go though and processed, thus they dug a hole and placed the driver section in it and covered it with earth. It's is for ease of rescue. You can believe it or not. But I believe (this explanation).
This is actually the first response from Rail ministry about burying the trains and so far this is the story they stick to. I have no idea where NYTimes got their source for "to prevent privileged and sensitive information from leaking to the public". I recommend that sentence to be changed to reflect the actual response from rail ministry. Xingfenzhen ( talk) 05:47, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
-- Lxr1234 ( talk) 16:38, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
-- tigersandys ( talk) 9:23, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
Latest development, the buried train section has been dugged out and carried away. News Link: http://gb.cri.cn/27824/2011/07/26/2225s3318941_1.htm Xingfenzhen ( talk) 04:06, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
China has some of the longest bridges in the world. Most of them are high speed rail viaducts in Eastern China. Is it possible the accident happened on one of the super long viaducts? -- Green Cardamom ( talk) 05:37, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
Editor Wipsenade has posted this flag in the article.
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But I do not see any relevant discussion in the talk page. Is it proper to delete the flag? Wanderer57 ( talk) 17:00, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
I tagged it since most appears to be in Chinese, so I can’t understand it, but by what I can gather the user is trying to accuse the Chinese government of a cover up. I was wondering if it was true, a political attack, off topic or just needs to be translated in to English? Wipsenade ( talk) 17:20, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
It's gon now. 86.24.28.3 ( talk) 18:44, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
2011年7月25日 (一) 17:54 60.242.159.224 (讨论) (15,644字节) (removed POV section) remove it, but why so quickly, shall I cover it? -- Lxr1234 ( talk) 00:38, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
Yes, you can recover what you write and put it back up. It was a bit strange to read. You have a good point about Media control. It has been found on other, English speaking, Google news pages that the Media is being controlled. I was personally only confused and needed translations.
Someone else has added this to the page and it covers Media control. Wipsenade ( talk) 01:32, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
Official media directives-
The Chinese authorities have been accused of attempting to silence reports into the cause of the crash. The Communist Party's propaganda department has reportedly ordered the media not to send reporters to the scene, not to report too frequently and not to link the story to high-speed rail development. [1] [2] Reuters reported that the propaganda department issued directives to the nation's media instructing them to not question or elaborate on reports of the train crash. In their coverage, media were directed to promote the theme 'in the face of great tragedy, there's great love.' [3] Both the China_Digital_Times [4] and Boxun.com [5], had received attention from the Propaganda_Department_of_the_Communist_Party_of_China, saying they were required to do this.
Wipsenade ( talk) 01:32, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
References
This section needs less info on patent issues and more info on the signalling system. E.g. was the track equipped with CTCS or something similar? Were there optical railway signals? Whether the trains were very modern or very old seems to be of little relevance to the cause of this particular disaster. Yaan ( talk) 21:26, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
I AGREE VERY STRONGLY ! THE RELEVANT 'TECHNOLOGY' QUESTION IS: WHY DID THE SIGNAL SYSTEM MALFUNCTION? WHAT SIGNAL TECHNOLOGY IS INSTALLED ON THE HANGZHOU-WENZHOU-FOUZHOU LINE? WHO WAS THE SUPPLIER OF THE SIGNAL SYSTEM? The accident gives every indication that it is due to a SIGNAL FAILURE. EVERY SIGNALLING SYSTEM is designed to prevent any train from entering space already occupied by another train - but that is exactly what happened here, the second train was sent at full speed onto track already occupied by the first train.
'Lightning strikes' don't explain anything. Lightning strikes everywhere in the world. But I have never heard of a French TGV high-speed train being disabled by lightning (and there are plenty of thunderstorms in Burgundy, on the LGV Sud-Est), nor have I heard of a Japanese Shinkansen train being disabled by lightning.
Now, if the high-speed line in Wenzhou is equipped with Chinese Train Control System CTCS-3 which is the Chinese version of European Train Control System, Level 2, then train detection involves the train's on-board computers, which report the train's location (received from a Balise) to the Control Center. And if the train's on-board computers (in Europe, three redundant computers!) were disabled because on-board power vanished, then yes, tragedy could strike. But this would represent incredibly negligent design - trains carry batteries for back-up power in emergencies, and the first and most important pieces of equipment which should have back-up power are the signalling computers . If these are allowed to become inoperative, then we have a simply incredible failure to design a fail-safe system.
Apparently a train also lost power on the Beijing-Shanghai High-Speed Railway around July 11th, and came to a halt, blocking the line. This could be a similar defect.
NO WONDER THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT IS WORRIED ABOUT LOSING EXPORT MARKETS. You can't sell unsafe engineering.
WHAT IS THE SIGNAL TECHNOLOGY ON THE HIGH-SPEED LINE IN WENZHOU? IS IT Chinese Train Control System CTCS-2 OR CTCS-3? WHO SUPPLIED IT? DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY INFORMATION? Prospero10 ( talk) 17:02, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
Thanks very much,
Tigersandys, you are extremely helpful. I also found a reference on the
Chinese Train Control System:
http://www.emsd.gov.hk/emsd/e_download/about/symposium/2011/session/fullpaper/M4_Full%20Paper_CL%20Wang.pdf
It's written in very flawed English, but contains much useful information. I have incorporated this new information in the 'Technology' section of the article. Prospero10 ( talk) 00:40, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
In an interview with CCTV. Jiongjia station chief (the station just before the accident) indicated the control system at the station encountered computer problem, and they switch to manual command and control of the train. Video of the interview here
http://jingji.cntv.cn/20110727/115024.shtml , transcript here
http://politics.gmw.cn/2011-07/27/content_2354816.htm
24.4.166.245 (
talk)
17:33, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
Although it is a big acccident, but it don't have any photos about that. Should we request someone to upload it in commons? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.153.80.58 ( talk) 04:36, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
Yes you can. 82.27.16.66 ( talk) 14:22, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
Are there any other numbers floating around other than Xinhua's? Some Chinese people I know don't believe the 39 and keep asking me what foreign media are saying, but as far as I can tell all the foreign media articles I've found just repeat what Xinhua said. rʨanaɢ ( talk) 05:39, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
For the sake of the references, could someone translate the headlines of these Chinese sources into English?
Thanks. –Nav talk to me or sign my guestbook 21:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
"一座城市的爱与暖――直击“7·23”事故伤者救治现场" means "The love and warmth of a city-- the sense of rescuing of the 7.23 accident";
"爱心在这里升华——见证“7·23”甬温线特大事故救援" means "deep love here -- we witnessed the rescuing of the 7.23 Wenzhou train collision accident";
"高铁体风行:“我反正信了”" is a bit difficult to translate. This title means the sentence "anyhow I believe it" become popular in China. To understand this title you need a bit of background knowledge. After the accident, the train sections are buries. Public hold the view that Rail Ministry did that to eliminate the evidence about why the train collided but Wang Yongping from the Rail Ministry said they did it to help the rescuing. Then he added:"I do not care whether you believe it or not, anyway I believe it" ("至于你信不信,我反正信了。" from http://www.ycwb.com/ePaper/ycwb/html/2011-07/28/content_1172112.htm) And this kind of sentence was called "高铁体" in China now. "高铁" means CRH high speed train. "体" means a format of poets or articles. Many people wrote a host of similar sentence such as "Chinese Football Association said that Chinese National Football Team could attend 2014 World Cup. I do not care whether you believe it or not, anyway I believe it." -- SamiZhan ( talk) 03:11, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
If one train was standing still, and the other train crashed into it, I think the introduction of our article should reflect that. Now it just says the trains ”collided”, and anyone reading only the introduction may get the impression of a frontal collision with two trains going in opposite directions on the same track. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.250.190.243 ( talk) 14:45, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
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