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Archive 10 | ← | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 |
I'm working on putting together an updated collage to put in the lede. Is this better than what we've currently got?
I would've liked to include a photo from the Taliban's POV (perhaps with the Taliban standing triumphant in front of captured AAF aircraft), but unfortunately I'm not sure I can find an appropriately licensed image and I was running out of room. Any ideas? Schierbecker ( talk) 08:37, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
The National Resistance Front of Afghanistan under Ahmad Massoud and President Amrullah Saleh continue the mujahideen resistance to the Taliban terrorists. Thomas
edit by me: the war was over 20 years ago. WTF is up with this totally bizarre interpretation of Iraq and Afghanistan to be wars that never end? It's crazy and unprecedented in history. Should we say that the 1st Crusade ended in defeat because 100 years later, some other Muslim armies destroyed the Crusder kingdoms that were set up there after the Christian victories? If, in 2100, Neo-Nazis take over Germany are we going to have to update the history books to state that World War 2 ended in a defeat for the Allies after a 150-year long war? This is so, so, so weird. The War in Afghanistan ended in victory for the US-led coalition in 2001 or 2002 when the Taleban was pushed out of its last stronghold in Afghanistan. Kabul was secure. The old government was destroyed. In Iraq the army was disbanded. Then the occupation of the country began. An ongoing occupation is not the same thing as a war. After WW2 the US occupied Japan... but I guarantee that if an American GI got killed in Tokyo in 1948, he would not be listed among the casualties of WW2. Nobody can explain this in any sensible way it's impossible. I know that it's the common narrative that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan went on basically forever until the last foreign soldier finally left but this makes NO sense. That's never been how we thought of or defined ANY previous war. Wikipedia should take the lead in correcting this baffling misconception, define the WAR in Afghanistan as taking place in 2001, and the Occupation of Afghanistan, as completely distinct and separate, as lasting from 2001-2021. And then... if there is any other skirmishing going on between Afghan or other forces in 2022.. that's something else entirely. 96.231.200.32 ( talk) 08:03, 23 January 2022 (UTC)Me
To say that American lost is false, America accomplished their main objective, that is, kill Osama Bin Laden, not nation building. The war in Afghanistan was never about nation building. To say America lost the war in Afghanistan is a huge lie because America never really tried fighting seriously after accomplishing its objective. Its correct to say the war was an American victory since we killed Osama Bin Laden 107.77.203.124 ( talk) 15:46, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
The Taliban was roundly defeated, pushed out of Kabul, pushed out of most of Afghanistan, killed, detained, or dispersed. They were absolutely defeated. Then AFTER the war concluded, and the occupation began, an insurgency began, with other people taking up the Taliban banner. But this wasn't the same Taliban. Saying that this means the US didn't defeat the Taliban is like saying that the Union lost the American Civil War because there are still people in Alabama who fly General Lee's battle flag... people can go on adopting the name and banner of a defeated government forever, that doesn't make the defeated government not defeated. 96.231.200.32 ( talk) 08:06, 23 January 2022 (UTC)Ryan
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The lines in question is in section 10.4, specifically the very last two sentences of the "Aftermath" section. It reads as follows: "Afghanistan, ever since the Taliban seized control of the country, is collapsing into hunger, widespread unemployment, a complete fallout of the judicial system, an exodus of all qualified and educated people and total administrative chaos and all this is to be blamed on Pakistan. The Pakistanis since around 2004 were actively involved in fuelling the Islamist insurgency in Afghanistan especially with the help of the internationally forbidden Haqqani Network, according to Fabien Baussart, President of Center of Political and Foreign Affairs (CPFA).[636]"
This statement cites an unreliable source, and makes the extreme claim that the dire economic situation in Afghanistan can be wholly attributed to Pakistan. This is intuitively incorrect, since there are actually multiple factors contributing to the economic crisis. Duffsaid ( talk) 23:30, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
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Peaceray just removed this, "Afghanistan, ever since the Taliban seized control of the country, is collapsing into hunger, widespread unemployment, a complete fallout of the judicial system, an exodus of all qualified and educated people and total administrative chaos and all this is to be blamed on Pakistan. The Pakistanis since around 2004 were actively involved in fuelling the Islamist insurgency in Afghanistan especially with the help of the internationally forbidden Haqqani Network, according to Fabien Baussart, President of Center of Political and Foreign Affairs (CPFA). [1]" because it is a copyvio. I however believe it can be re-inserted if it is paraphrased, so please add this, "Afghanistan, ever since the Taliban seized control of the country, has collapsed into widespread unemployment, hunger, a failure of the judicial system, an exodus of all qualified and educated people and total administrative chaos and all this is to be blamed on Pakistan which was involved in fuelling the Islamist insurgency in Afghanistan especially with the help of the internationally forbidden Haqqani Network, since around 2004, according to Fabien Baussart, President of Center of Political and Foreign Affairs (CPFA)". 2405:204:53AA:5467:E9D6:110A:3DBA:ABE ( talk) 08:26, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
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template. This is still a copyvio, as you just reordered some of the phrases. "Internationally forbidden" doesn't really make sense, and those are strong allegations to make citing a single source with no byline.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
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12:05, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
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...all of which can be blamed on Pakistanis an enormous statement to be making in wikivoice based on a weak source. I suggest you provide more sources, and better sources, if you'd like to include something along these lines. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 15:28, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
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Anarchyte (
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13:14, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
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In the infobox of the article, in the, "Territorial changes" section, it reads,
Taliban increase territorial control compared to pre-intervention, anti-Taliban forces reduced to Panjshir Province
, please change it to,
Taliban increase territorial control compared to pre-intervention, anti-Taliban forces first reduced to Panjshir Province and then driven out of there also
- Y2edit? ( talk) 16:51, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
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George HW Bush needs to be changed to George W Bush. W Bush was president in 2001. SkolNinja19 ( talk) 02:18, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
Why is it called "War in Afghanistan" instead of "US-Afghan War", like others such as "Anglo-Afghan War" or "Soviet-Afghan War"? 27.147.226.208 ( talk) 22:14, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
To get the ball rolling on the process, I boldly split off content regarding reactions and aftermath to Reactions and aftermath to the War in Afghanistan (2001–2021). This article needs to be split apart into summaries rather than bulk information that can be linked to other places. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 21:51, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
Re this note I suggest copy editing for brevity by conforming to Wikipedia standards by eg having just 3 paragraphs in the intro for example and not repeating information from elsewhere in the article or from linked articles where information from this article has already been moved to. Dakinijones ( talk) 20:43, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
America didnt lose the war in Afghanistan. America won the war with a high kill count and then they left. That’s not a defeat. 2601:40:5:F2B:C126:59B1:A573:41F9 ( talk) 23:16, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
- Y2edit? ( talk) 23:14, 3 April 2022 (UTC)Do you have a reliable source that backs up this claim? The book I'm using, and media sources at large, seem to believe that it was the one and same Taliban. In effect, even if the US won the battle to oust the Taliban in the early 2000's, ultimately they lost the war
Kill counts mean nothing in a war. The US lost the Vietnam War after causing many more losses than they sustained. Who wins a war is shown by who controls the territory fought over - in the case of both Vietnam and Afghanistan, that was not the USA. Ianbrettcooper ( talk) 20:03, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
Ayman Al Zawahiri, a commander on Afghanistan side in now deceased, so a death marker should be added next to his name as the others who are deceased as of July 31, 2022 Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayman_al-Zawahiri 184.155.166.47 ( talk) 22:45, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
My suggestion is a relatively small change but one that I feel like its an important one. We don't really know the true amount of Taliban killed and the number stated killed in the summary makes it look like it is an exact figure when when it is just an estimation. In "Taliban insurgency", which uses the same number, it states with brackets that the number of insurgents killed is just an estimation and I feel like it is important that it is included here as well considering wikipedia is the page most regular people will access first when wanting to learn about the casualties of the war. Aleksandras Salenga ( talk) 19:54, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
Hi, sorry I accidentally deleted the infobox military conflict, please put it back. Parham wiki ( talk) 15:33, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
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I would suggest adding that Bin Laden was killed in Pakistan in the lede as it could be implied that he was killed in Afghanistan given the title of the article. This could be added just before or after "in May 2011". Willbb234 23:07, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. SNOW close. Proposed new name is unanimously opposed and problematic for a number of reasons. 25stargeneral ( talk) 00:01, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
War in Afghanistan (2001–2021) →
NATO-Afghan war – I believe it should be renamed as such to be on par with it’s
Soviet-Afghan war historical Twin, i see no reason to omit “NATO” from the title of this article while showing “Soviet” in the title of the other article or making any distinction between both.
Stephan rostie (
talk)
17:50, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
In the interest of removing bias, would it not be prudent to use photos of non-western forces in the opening description.
The way it’s portrayed as it stands, it presents the conflict as if catering to a western audience rather than an objective, facts based view of the conflict.
Surely a photo portraying the Taliban, one side of the war, wouldn’t be out of place when trying to represent a snap shot of the conflict? 81.145.194.74 ( talk) 17:53, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
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Add the Danish to the Invaders section of Afghanistan Vinmendoza ( talk) 08:56, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
The US venture in Afghanistan and subsequent withdrawal should be recognised as a military defeat rather than a 'withdrawal'. The US entered Afghanistan with the goal of removing the Taliban from power and installing a government aligned to Western values. They subsequently fought the Taliban in a war of attrition for 20 years before leaving the country. They could not achieve that objective and subsequently were forced to negotiate a withdrawl as continued presence in Afghanistan was no longer practical after 20 years, thousands of lives and trillions of dollars.
It's important to note that wars have been one in different ways and simply because the Taliban defeated the US by draining their resources and will to fight over many years does not make any less of a victory for them. Nor does the presence of an agreement negate that as this would then negate virtually every other victory in modern history, including the Armenian capitulation in Nagorno Karabakh and the German one in the Treatey of Versailles.
Based on this, I think that the current framing of the American defeat as an optional withdrawal is a misinterpretation of the actual result of the war in which the US failed to achieve it's objectives and was defeated by the persistent guerilla assaults of the Taliban in a war of attrition. Subsequently, we should replace or coincide the term 'withdrawal' with the term 'defeat' in order to accurately represent the outcome of the war in favour of the Taliban and against the US and Coalition forces.
See below for reference:
'Defeat is a mission task requiring the friendly force commander to deprive the enemy force and its commander of the means and will to interfere to a significant degree with the actions of the friendly forces and attaining friendly force objectives' https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2020/04/13/defining_defeat_115200.html#:~:text=Defeat%20is%20a%20mission%20task,and%20attaining%20friendly%20force%20objectives. 2A02:6B6B:384C:0:28AF:C6EF:A7AA:6FEA ( talk) 18:06, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
Major Coalition participants should not be hidden under an "ISAF" toggle. Counties that made significant contributions like France should be visible at first glance. 118.208.236.209 ( talk) 12:36, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
1- The war continued until August 30 (as written below), it is better to add the third (last) stage, the 2021 air flight of Kabul. 2- Why is the second phase directed to Freedom Guard operation instead of the decisive support mission, while the Freedom Guard operation is written as part of the decisive support mission? So what about the rest of the involved countries that participated in the decisive support mission? 3- How does the Northern Alliance lead the invasion? Invasion led by United States! 4- Iran participated in the invasion (2001 uprising in Herat), not that it supported the invasion. 5- Afghan leaders did not manage the war, but US leaders did and should be in charge. 6- In Participants in Operation Enduring Freedom, there were countries that were not on the list, or Bahrain, which did not participate in Operation Enduring Freedom, but is on the list. Parham wiki ( talk) 16:20, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
U.S. anti-missile defenses intercepted as many as five rockets fired at Kabul's airport early on Monday, a U.S. official said, as the United States rushed to complete its withdrawal from Afghanistan to end its longest war.'
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The Taliban total strength is either wrong or the casualty list is. There is simply no way that they retokk Afghanistan with 8000 soldiers by the figures you posted. Please double check sources. 174.250.209.138 ( talk) 18:07, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
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Lights and freedom (
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19:34, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
Why the aftermath article needs to be merged into this one while this one is considered too long as is? Seaparrot876 ( talk) 16:05, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I propose merging Aftermath of the Afghanistan War (2001–2021) into War in Afghanistan (2001–2021). Firstly the content of the article is lacking, secondly Collapse of Afghan Army is irrelevant because the Afghan army collapsed in the war and not afterwards. Parham wiki ( talk) 20:09, 17 June 2023 (UTC)