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@
MfactDr: We currently have (without links) In November 2020, Genocide Watch upgraded its alert status for Ethiopia as a whole to the ninth stage of genocide, extermination, referring to the 2020 Oromo schoolyard massacre, Casualties of the Tigray War,2020 Ethiopia bus attack and Metekel massacre and listing affected groups as the Amhara, Tigrayans, Oromo, Gedeo, Gumuz, Agaw and qemant[16].
The Genocide Watch public announcement mentions:
looting and destruction of Tigrayan properties in Oromia and Amhara Regions
firing of "Tigrayan ex-officials" which is seen as ethnic profiling
Genocide Watch is updating its Genocide Emergency Alert due to this war.
in the left bar, affected groups = amhara, tigrayan, OROMO, gedeo peoples
So I think the current edit is reasonably compatible with the source and only needs copyediting, but if people want to discuss it more, here's there's space to do so...
Boud (
talk)
00:32, 4 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Genocide watch go beyond reporting massacre on one side report and even recommend change constitution of the country to stop secession of regional state of federation.its up to people of the country whether stay together or apart. there are many massacres in past namely
irreecha massacre, anuak genocide so more. I am really sad what happened to this country not able to accommodate each other in whole history the country. in 2018 thing expected to change, however getting worse. its so unfortunate. any way thanks for contributing
MfactDr (
talk)
01:05, 4 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Crimes against humanity page
Should not parts of the "war crimes" in Tigray be split over to another page, covering crimes against humanity towards Tigrayans?
Reasoning 1:
War crimes solely happens in times of war, while crimes against humanity are not dependent on warfare in itself. If reaching a severe enough level, war crimes might constitute crimes against humanity. For Tigray, such a level has probably been met, so that it should ble split up.
Reasoning 2: Much points towards that the crimes against humanity committed by Ethiopia and it's allied Amhara militia and Eritrea, are not side-effects of a civil war, but rather the main objective.
For Tigray, several sources point towards that the ethnic cleansing, massacres and destructions of means of existence, was pre-planned and started before the war breaking out on the 3rd of November 2020. In other words, they don't happens as war crimes as a side-effect of war, but it's the objective of the "war" itself.
Some sources:
1. Ethiopia and Amhara militia broadcasting a planned genocide on the Tigrayans, on Ethiopian state TV already in October 2020:
This planned genocide neccetitated a war, but it should not be hidden under a "war crimes"-title. IMO this looks like Rwanda in 1994: Took a long time to realize that the Rwandan genocide was not a war fueling massacres, but instead a genocide under the disguise of labeling it first a "rebellion" from the victims, and then an armed conflict. The genocide-stoppers RPF was named "rebels", while the government carrying out the genocide was describes as participating in counter-insurgency and a civil war.
2. Martin Plaut describing that before Ethiopia's claimed "trigger" for the war on Tigray,
"there had already been some fighting in Western Tigray by then between Amhara Special Forces and Tigrean troops":
3. The Week: A witness describing that the genocide started well before the outbreak of the "war" on Tigray:
"H.A. also confirms what some outside observers have suspected, namely that in Ethiopia there was violence well before November, when reports first emerged of a government-forced blackout following a canceled election. In the countryside, he said, militias were stealing food and burning crops in October. Women were raped, children were murdered. At a farm owned by one of his relations, all but one of the farmhands were killed; at a looted factory owned by a business associate, no one survived. Ethiopian military personnel claimed that nothing could be done".
It's obvious that sooner or later there'll have to be either an article
Crimes against humanity in the Tigray War or
Tigray genocide or something with a very similar name. When and whether this would be accepted by the Wikipedian community would depend on the quality of the sourcing, and the ability to split up which event is qualified as which type of crime. The start article would have to be well-written and solidly sourced, it seems to me. The sources above don't look sufficient to me.
The difficulty with splitting up war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide of the
Tigray War into separate articles is that the sources are far from consensus. Which event would be counted in which article? It could take 5 or 20 years before either Ethiopian courts or the
ICC or the
International Court of Justice or
universal jurisdiction cases are concluded (and they haven't even started). At least on a few months time scale, we will probably only have opinions from notable people or notable organisations. Later, we might have the start of official investigations that clearly state that suspected crimes against humanity are being investigated. In that case we could create articles similar to those for the specific ICC articles - see the ICC navigation boxes and infoboxes and tables - there are lots of related articles.
My worry is that we would risk have material shifted from one article to another, or removed from both, or inserted into both, with endless edit battles. Keeping the events themselves mainly in articles on the specific events, and keeping war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide together here in this article, seems safer to avoid wasting editing energy to me.
Oppose. A separate article makes no sense as per an academic article, "Nearly all of the underlying offences which could qualify as crimes against humanity would also amount, all other conditions being met, to war crimes, but the converse is not necessarily true."
[1] (the main reason an offense would be a crime against humanity but not a war crime is if it was not committed during armed conflict). We have no article for
Crimes against humanity in the Yugoslav Wars despite multiple convictions. (Alleged) crimes against humanity should be covered in the war crimes article. A separate article *may* make sense if it turns out to be genocide, but alternately
War crimes in the Tigray War could also be moved to
Tigray genocide or such. (
t ·
c) buidhe23:13, 5 March 2021 (UTC)reply
TPLF involved in massacring civilians in Aksum and other places in Tigray
TPLF started the war and is involved in massacring civilians in Amhara and Tigray. Here is what was stated by ENDF in November prior to the alleged Axum massacre:
“We have received inside information that by recording this acts, TPLF is planning to falsely accuse the Ethiopian Army for killing civilians,” Major General Mohammed Tessema, head of ENDF Indoctrination told the state broadcaster – ETV last night. He indicated that the TPLF is planning to undertake a genocide like “it did recently at Maykadra”.
If TPLF was in control of Axum during the massacre and they are wearing Eritrean uniforms, then by logic any massacre that happened was done by TPLF soldiers in Eritrean uniforms.
@
Facttell:New Business Ethiopia seems like it's a regular newspaper, and I've seen that claim circulating elsewhere, so I added it. Done Welcome to
WP:NPOV. (Personally, I find the claim rather unrealistic in relation to the Aksum massacre: there's no mention of how the TPLF got hold of Eritrean licence plates for vehicles, and the most challenging issue: how did the TPLF train its troops in the Eritrean dialect and accent of
Tigrinya so quickly?)It's true that Debretsion claimed that the TPLF retook Aksum on 29 November, but none of the witnesses and survivors attributed the massacre to the TPLF. Both the Amnesty and HRW reports state numerous methods according to which witnesses and survivors identified the perpetrators as EDF, not just the uniforms. (Try reading the reports.) Twitter is usually not accepted as a reliable source.The arrest of Enkuayehu Mesele is an article that uses
hate speech, "TPLF criminal militants are being hunted down", but I'm not aware of a ban against using official government news sources that use hate speech; in the Ethiopian situation hate speech is currently widely used in the media; and in the interests of
WP:NPOV, I've added the factual type information (not the hate speech). DoneBoud (
talk)
23:33, 15 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Actually certain subregions of Tigray speak with the Eritrean Tigrinya dialect for example Adwa of which many of the Tplf leaders are from. Additionally Tplf did bring Standard Tigrinya language education to Tigray students with emphasis on speaking the Eritrean Tigrinya dialect for 30 years. “Hunting criminals and terrorists” is comingly used in Western countries especially after 9-11 of which TPLF brutal attack on ENDF soldiers while they slept. Here some more crimes against humanity that TPLF committed against Raya and Eritrean refugees in Tigray! For NPOV the crimes of Tplf must be recorded:
“ Noting that conspiracy politics is the main identity of the TPLF clique, the deputy administrator stated that some members of the criminal faction arrested whilst committing rape wearing ENDF and Eritrean Army uniforms.
The clique distributed uniforms of the ENDF and Eritrean Army for sexual offenders so as to harm the reputation of the disciplined Ethiopian Army.
Also, residents gave their testimony about inmates released by TPLF committed the rape.
"There is a testament that the ENDF is working day and night to bring back people of Tigray to their normal lives and the interim admiration has been working with the police force to crush the criminal clique and restore peace and order in the state," he noted.”
Facttell (
talk)
02:23, 16 March 2021 (UTC)reply
I check pages listed in
Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for
orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of
War crimes in the Tigray War's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "auto1":
From
Horn of Africa: John I. Saeed, Somali – Volume 10 of London Oriental and African language library, (J. Benjamins: 1999), p. 250.
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not.
AnomieBOT⚡07:03, 25 June 2021 (UTC)reply
A UN commission has stated they had "reasonable grounds to believe" that the Ethiopian government was using deliberate starvation as a war tactic.[2]
In Removal of means of survival:
In September 2022 UN report, the Ethiopian government, along with forces allied with them, engaged in deliberate efforts to deny the
Tigray region "access to basic services [...] and humanitarian assistance," leaving 90% of Tigrayan residents in dire conditions. It called on both the federal government and the TPLF to let these services resume without hinderance.[1][2]
XTheBedrockX (
talk)
05:53, 3 October 2022 (UTC)reply
"removed the claim about cluster bombing for now. I've searched around, and this person genuinely seems to be the only one claiming this, and no other reliable news or human rights orgs seem to mention this. Based in this, it's hard to judge the veracity of it."
XTheBedrockX (
talk)
21:45, 8 October 2022 (UTC)reply