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Is this really noteworthy enough for an encyclopaedia article? Lots of people have pubs named after them. If it stays, it may need to be reworded to emphasise a re-assessment of Stead's impact/importance etc.
Farrtj (
talk)
18:54, 3 May 2011 (UTC)reply
The Northern Echo
Since its inception the Northern Echo has been titled "The Northern Echo". Should it therefore remain titled as the "Darlington Northern Echo" in the article? I know that overseas "The Times" is often referred to as "The Times of London", so perhaps a case can be made that using the Darlington prefix is informative. Perhaps "The Northern Echo of Darlington"?
Farrtj (
talk) 15:53, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
Darlington was named in general to avoid confusion with the London "Echo." — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
38.108.138.87 (
talk)
13:36, 25 October 2011 (UTC)reply
Pall Mall extras?
I have no idea what "He made a feature of the Pall Mall extras..." might mean. Also, the article is full of lavish, unsourced praise of his brilliance - which seems inappropriate.
KD Tries Again (
talk)
15:54, 25 August 2008 (UTC)KD Tries Againreply
The most famous passenger?
The lead of this article claimed that Stead was 'the most famous passenger on RMS Titanic'. While he obviously was very well-known, 'the most famous' is potentially contentious - there were plenty of other famous names on that ship, like
John Jacob Astor IV. I've changed it to 'among the most famous passengers', unless anyone can provide a source to support the original statement.
Robofish (
talk)
12:18, 31 July 2011 (UTC)reply
If you actually checked the citation at the end of the sentence, you will see that the claim is already sourced. The source is attackinthedevil.co.uk
Farrtj (
talk)
04:03, 1 August 2011 (UTC)reply
This cites the faulty source for justification of an error. The article attributes all Stead research to itself. Further, my corrections of three errors in the article have been deleted.```` — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Grace Eckley (
talk •
contribs)
06:55, 26 October 2011 (UTC)reply
Funnily enough, she has an entire book written about her (namely the source cited). It devotes at least 8 pages to her relationship with Stead and Borderland. I think that's noteworthy. The argument that we only mention things or people with articles about them seems contrary to prevailing practice, and indeed is not followed in this article, where Penny Poets, The Daily Paper, Borderland itself,
William T. Stead Memorial Center,
Philip Mock, to name but a few, are mentioned but have no articles.
Cusop Dingle (
talk)
20:50, 29 December 2011 (UTC)reply
My point is that working with Stead may have been important to her life, but it wasn't important in Stead's life. And this is Stead's page, not Freer's.
Farrtj (
talk)
22:28, 29 December 2011 (UTC)reply
No, your point was, and I quote "She doesn't have a Wikipedia page, so her role as assistant editor is not particularly noteworthy", and that is not normal practice. Now it is simply "it wasn't important". Neither of these is an adequate explanation for removing a mere seven words with a citation. Did you perhaps mean
WP:UNDUE? Are you really saying that it is disproprtionate to name his co- assistant editor and a "substantial contributor" to his journal (the latter being established by the source cited, p.51)?
Cusop Dingle (
talk)
22:36, 29 December 2011 (UTC)reply
I don't think Hall is a particularly noteworthy source. I've never heard of him, nor does he seem to have a wikipedia page either.
Farrtj (
talk)
22:38, 29 December 2011 (UTC)reply
So? The issue is, is he a reliable source, not is he a noteworthy one, and to be honest, whether you happen have heard of him is completely beside the point. Hall is an historian who has written several books on aspects of spritualism and psychic research, which are well-researched, written with a scholarly apparatus, published by a reputable publisher and cited extensively by other writers. There is no doubt that he is a reliable source. Why are you so keen to keep this completely uncontroversial fact out of this article?
Cusop Dingle (
talk)
07:25, 30 December 2011 (UTC)reply
(←) I have expanded the material about Freer to include the fact that Stead claimed to have a telepathic connection with her that allowed him to communicate with her at a distance by
automatic writing. There are several reliable sources for this, which seems to me to be sufficiently significant in his life to be worthy of mention.
Cusop Dingle (
talk)
12:17, 30 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Controversial?
All public figures are controversial to some extent, however, I would say that William T Stead was one of the most across-the-political-spectrum appreciated public figures of his time. According to Tuchmann's book he was appreciated by people from super-imperialist Cecil Rhodes to social democrat Lady Warwick. His filantropic endeavours and his efforts at the peace conferences won much admiration. The first part of the article calls Stead controversial but there is very little in the article which shows anything but appreciation. I have read the reference to William Stead resource site, but I do not see any real support there for calling him controversial, much less "one of the most controversial figures of the Victorian era". If no one can convince me otherwise, I will change "controversial" to "famous".
Okay I've changed it to "as one of the early pioneers of investigative journalism, was one of the most famous figures of the Victorian era."
Farrtj (
talk)
14:19, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Fine by me. Thanks for the contribution. I had apparently missed the "puffery" rule. You live you learn, I guess.
Sensemaker
Eliza Armstrong Case
The article currently says, "his successful demonstration of the trade's existence". He didn't actually demonstrate anything of the kind; he faked its existence. The entire article was in that sense a fraud. I'm not sure what wording would be better, but it's factually wrong to assert that he had demonstrated the existence of the said trade.
82.71.30.178 (
talk)
19:47, 19 January 2014 (UTC)reply
The mother was told that her daughter was going into respectable service, which was quite normal at the time (whatever we may think of it now). Nothing that Stead did demonstrated the existence of the trade that he claimed to exist. All he demonstrated was that he himself was able to abduct a child under false pretences.
82.71.30.178 (
talk)
22:29, 20 June 2014 (UTC)reply
The mother claimed that she was told her daughter was going into respectable service. So the way I understand it, it is word against word. You didn't really expect her to confess to the press that she had sold her own daughter to sexual slavery, did you? -Sensemaker
Eliza Armstrong Case
This section really needs to be rewritten or deleted, as there is already a separate Wikipedia article on the Eliza Armstrong case. The most immediate problem is that the section conflates "Maiden Tribute" and the Eliza Armstrong case as if the Maiden Tribute articles talk about Eliza. They do not. At least my copy of the articles says nothing about Armstrong. That case is covered in a separate article:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Armstrong_Case/zyJLAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=William+thomas+Stead&printsec=frontcover --
Literaturegirl (
talk) 18:45, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
If you think that the Maiden Tribute articles say something about Armstrong, please provide a reference to the source you are using. All these primary sources are in public domain, and they are on Google Books. No need to make stuff up. --
Literaturegirl (
talk) 18:45, 12 December 2022 (UTC)--
Literaturegirl (
talk)
18:47, 12 December 2022 (UTC)reply
As I said, there is nothing in the Maiden Tribute about "Eliza Armstrong." But I have now drawn the connection between "Lily" in the Maiden Tribute and Armstrong. The article would be stronger if someone could provide a citation that clearly indicates that Lily is Armstrong.--
Literaturegirl (
talk)
12:33, 17 December 2022 (UTC) Wait, never mind, I just did that.reply