The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the upcoming U2 360° Tour is named for a new kind of stage design that will permit all-round viewing in football
stadiums?
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Looks doubtful for the time being, but U2 came to Australia in 2006 for the Vertigo Tour, so I don't see why there is yet to be mention of an Australian leg. From my understanding, the shows performed here in Australia were quite successful. Perhaps more announcements are yet to follow. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
58.107.37.6 (
talk)
00:13, 7 March 2009 (UTC)reply
That's possible, but remember that Australasia was skipped during the Elevation Tour too. It may simply be uneconomical for them to tour down there with this kind of set-up; there's no way to really know. As no official announcement has been made there really shouldn't be any mention of it possibly being skipped, though preliminary reports seem to indicate that will be the case.
MelicansMatkin (
talk)
01:11, 7 March 2009 (UTC)reply
I've read that Australia would not be included at all (can't remember where that was though). This is different to the JT and Elevation tours where they always meant to come but didn't in the end (although in the case of the JT tour, it did mean that Australia had an almost 3 month tour and Sydney alone got 9
Lovetown shows - a much better set). In 2001, the floating Oz dollar was very low which reduces the financial incentive for big acts, whereas by 2006, it was a lot stronger. The Oz dollar is now closer to 2001 levels and thus big acts are becoming less financially feasible. (having said that, the once again low dollar is a great buffer for our export economy in this world recession - but that's off-topic). Also, we only really have 4 or 5 big cities compared to Europe or US, which means overheads are spread thinly making it less economic still. --
Merbabu (
talk)
03:08, 7 March 2009 (UTC)reply
I would imagine that as the band is planning a tour of South America in 2010 I would say that will link in with an Australasia leg; with the traditional finish in the Far East/Hawaii. Also from an economic point of view the Santiago, Chile to Australia air route is very well established; so from an operational point of view it is very much achievable. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
213.94.192.200 (
talk)
11:03, 13 March 2009 (UTC)reply
True. I had a thought that, simply, Australia has not been mentioned at all - nothing has been said at all. So it's not a no and not a definite yes.
The only source to call the tour "Kiss the Future" was Billboard. U2's official website mentions "U2360°" as the only name of the tour. If anything, this article should be renamed "U2360°" or "U2360° Tour" and mention somewhere that the tour is "also referred to as the Kiss the Future tour". I know we consider Billboard a reliable source, but I think the band's official website is much more reliable when it comes to subjects related to the band themselves.
Unconscious³ (
talk)
07:54, 7 March 2009 (UTC)reply
That may be true, but it's also worth noting that in an interview (I believe it was on French radio a week or so back), the band revealed that the tour would take its name from a lyric on the album. There is no "U2360°" lyric, but "Kiss the Future" is very similar to a lyric in "Get on Your Boots." I realize it's
OR, but there is some speculation in the online community that "U2360°" is simply a placeholder name until Tour details are actually announced. In either case I'd suggest that for now we follow
WP:IAR and leave it as it is, since we'll know either way in two days time and there doesn't seem much point to me in having to move the page twice within 48 hours or so.
MelicansMatkin (
talk)
08:01, 7 March 2009 (UTC)reply
Agree, leave it as it is and await further developments. Once official announcements and promotional materials appear, it should become clear enough.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
12:14, 7 March 2009 (UTC)reply
Re "U2360", "Kiss the Future Tour" did sound a bit lame and obvious for U2 especially with this new so-called new "experimental reinvention" album.--
Merbabu (
talk)
01:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC)reply
U2.com only lists the dates up to September 24 at Giants Stadium. Since there is no reliable or verifiable source to back up the claims of the Washington, Atlanta, Houston, Tampa, Dallas, etc. shows, I've removed them. I know U2.com mentions that the band will play those cities, but they don't specify when or where.
Unconscious³ ([[User
talk:Unconscious³|talk]])
13:59, 9 March 2009 (UTC)reply
That's what I meant. It doesn't specify when or where any of the shows after the Giants Stadium date will be played. Nothing about FedEx Field, Reliant Stadium, Rose Bowl or any of the other venues mentioned in the list of dates that was previously in the article.
Unconscious³ (
talk)
15:49, 9 March 2009 (UTC)reply
Seems that some US/Can locations were taken out during the day... I have a screendump of the page showing conserts until Oct. 28. Let's leave them in for now. --
Eivindgh (
talk)
16:03, 9 March 2009 (UTC)reply
The trouble there is that the link as been updated, meaning that the information was removed and cannot be sourced. I recall seeing a list stating other cities that the band are scheduled to play though; why not simply use that and state, underneath the table, "the band are also scheduled to play in ..., ..., ..., though no dates or venues have yet been confirmed"[source]?
MelicansMatkin (
talk)
16:07, 9 March 2009 (UTC)reply
If the dates were removed, it might be because they're not 100% certain. I appreciate that they were on the website, but now they're not, and according to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability, The source cited must clearly support the information as it is presented in the article. We cannot cite a source for the Sept 29-onwards dates, as U2.com simply does not list them at the present time, therefore I think they should not be included in the article. If U2.com adds them to their list again, we'll add them back to the article - but until then, we don't have any reliable sources to back those dates up.
Unconscious³ (
talk)
18:03, 9 March 2009 (UTC)reply
So why not do as I suggested above?
This clearly shows that the band will be playing Atlanta, GA; Charlottesville, VA; Dallas, TX; Houston, TX; Las Vegas, NV; Los Angeles, CA; Norman, OK; Phoenix, AZ; Tampa, FL; Washington, DC and Vancouver, BC; its just the dates and venues have not yet been announced. KIf nobody has any objections, I shall edit it in now.
MelicansMatkin (
talk)
18:11, 9 March 2009 (UTC)reply
I found
this regarding Research in Motion's sponsership of the tour; I think there's some good stuff in here, but I can't figure out how to incorporate it into the article. It's some good stuff though.
MelicansMatkin (
talk)
16:52, 12 March 2009 (UTC)reply
I was already planning on adding something about the Apple split and RIM partnership ... I've added that now ... as for this, I can't quite tell if this 'Alan' is a
WP:RS or not. However, if the U2/RIM partnership does produce something tangible in the mobile music experience space, then there will surely be mainstream news reports about that when it happens.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
23:58, 12 March 2009 (UTC)reply
As far as I know Alan Cross is a reliable source; he works for the Canadian radio station The Edge, which his blog is a part of, and he has had a few exclusives beforehand.
MelicansMatkin (
talk)
00:34, 13 March 2009 (UTC)reply
OK, I see now the
Alan Cross article; learn something new every day. I've added the Bono quote, and I've moved all this into its own section. Modern large-scale tours aren't just an artistic endeavor, but pretty much a full-scale commercial enterprise of their own, so a section for this kind of thing is warranted.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
01:12, 13 March 2009 (UTC)reply
Cool, I'm glad that you were able to get the information into the article because I couldn't for the life of me figure out how best to incorporate it.
MelicansMatkin (
talk)
02:05, 13 March 2009 (UTC)reply
Hahah, wow
Amazing. Two DYK about U2 on the front-page in 24 hours. That must be a record! Well, kudos to everyone for putting together a great article, and to Wasted Time R for nominating.
MelicansMatkin (
talk)
04:27, 13 March 2009 (UTC)reply
According to
this site, they were playing indoor arenas. A number of artists have played indoor arenas in the round, including the
Top of the World Tour and the
Soul2Soul II Tour just to name a couple. Even if you have an end stage in an indoor arena, very often the seating is all the way around. It's having a 360 stage and all-around seating in a large outdoor stadium that's different, and claimed to be new, with this U2 tour.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
11:54, 13 March 2009 (UTC)reply
Absolutely, for all the spin, it is a much more economical set up. It will cost much less than Vertigo or Popmart (both with large screens, visual shows etc) to put on. It's all about money. A little cynical of them I suppose. For what it's worth they did 'in the round' before in 1987 in Croke Park, Dublin; money for old rope. Indeed, I think the U2 shows in May 2005 was a somewhat 360 set up. --
213.94.192.200 (
talk)
12:27, 13 March 2009 (UTC)reply
May 2005... I think that was still while touring the arenas, correct? This is the first time a 360°-stage has been used for a Stadium tour, not arenas.
MelicansMatkin (
talk)
15:05, 13 March 2009 (UTC)reply
Pulled from article, this from
User:82.170.232.178: "The concept of building the stage in the center of a stadium with the audience surrounding it has been done before by
Metallica as can be seen on their 1998 video
Cunning Stunts. This video is a registration of a concert in the tour supporting their 1997 album
Load."
The article states that "Only tiered football stadiums can be used with this scheme; flat fields and baseball stadiums are not possible venues". However, U2 360 concert tour date in Toronto will be played in a baseball stadium. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
142.108.73.50 (
talk)
21:31, 31 March 2009 (UTC)reply
The Skydome is a multi-purpose facility that can be configured for football as well as baseball, and thus presumably is okay for use for this stage and show.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
23:34, 31 March 2009 (UTC)reply
The old
Circle Star Theater in San Carlos, CA was a theater in the round, with a revolving stage. It was built in the early 60's and torn down in the late 90's. Far too small a venue for U2 to have played in even back then. Concept is not new, but as usual U2 did it in a big way.
Mediasponge (
talk)
20:29, 1 August 2011 (UTC)reply
I have the funny feeling that it was because of the use of the word "soccer" instead of "football". I'm glad that my edit appears to have been a compromise between the two however.
MelicansMatkin (
talk)
23:16, 18 March 2009 (UTC)reply
Now
User:JD554 keeps reverting this, and we are left with "Only tiered stadiums can be used with this scheme; flat fields and
baseball stadiums are not possible venues", which is illogical since baseball stadiums are tiered, just not the right shape for this show. I really don't understand why mentioning football stadiums is causing so much distress here.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
12:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)reply
I removed the part about football stadiums because it seemed to be causing grief - little did I know that I would cause more :-) - and it isn't really necessary to specifically say they are football stadiums. The part about baseball stadiums not being suitable immediately follows in the same sentence, but it could be made clearer by adding a "however" after the comma. Would that be acceptable? --
JD554 (
talk)
13:02, 19 March 2009 (UTC)reply
I have belatedly realized that our
Football article is a general one that covers all kinds of football (wasn't always this way), and thus no parenthetical about soccer vs gridiron etc is necessary. I think it's important to explicitly mention football stadiums, because McGuiness does in the source. So I've restored football into the description, no parenthetic, no geographical bias, hoping to leave everyone happy.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
23:15, 19 March 2009 (UTC)reply
The supporting pillars are only there for set-up purposes. Once the show starts, they retract and the whole assembly just levitates in mid-air. As Bono says in the article, "We have some magic."
Wasted Time R (
talk)
21:52, 20 March 2009 (UTC)reply
I'm delighted I paid €130 and it was a very restricted view - however I feel no matter where one is seated or standing there is a 'claw' arm or a footbridge in the way. This should be highlighted in the article.--
213.94.192.200 (
talk)
09:53, 28 July 2009 (UTC)reply
Yes the four "claw" arms would be in the way. however, the stage was large enough for the band to move around and be seen by all at some point or another. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Jreid1793 (
talk •
contribs)
08:48, 3 September 2011 (UTC)reply
New article
This article has some neat stuff regarding the stage design that could be added. Specifically when the first designs were made, the sheer size of it, the sound system, and the logistics (particularly the purchasing of carbon offsets to reduce the enironmental impact).
MelicansMatkin (
talk)
21:10, 23 March 2009 (UTC)reply
User:154.20.15.132 is torqued off about the use of DMY formatting in the article's dates, but this is clearly called for by
MOS:DATE#Strong national ties to a topic: "Articles on topics with strong ties to a particular English-speaking country should generally use the more common date format for that nation. For the U.S. this is month before day; for most others it is day before month. Articles related to Canada may use either format consistently." U2 is strongly tied to Ireland, thus the use of the day before month form.
User:154.20.15.132 is also upset about the use of "[[East Rutherford, New Jersey|New York area]]" and the like to denote U.S. stadiums outside of major cities. This was an attempt by me to stop previous edit battles between formulations that just said East Rutherford or just said New York. Based on the shape of U2's fan base, many readers (perhaps a majority) of this article are outside the U.S. and may well have no idea where East Rutherford, Foxboro, Landover, Arlington, Pasadena, etc. are. I was trying to get across the market where U2 was playing, not just the piece of land that the stadium happens to be in. But if other editors don't like this, then I believe at a minimum we have to give both the town and state for the actual locations, not just the town. Per
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (city names)#United States, there are only about 25 major U.S. cities that can be identified by city name alone.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
23:09, 10 May 2009 (UTC)reply
I also agree; I don't think, given the MOS standard, there is any need for a serious discussion regarding the date format. Simply chalk it up to inexperience and, should it continue, label it as disruptive editing against the established consensus and follow with the necessary warnings if necessary ({{subst:uw-mos1}} or {{subst:uw-date}} perhaps). Regarding the locations, I'd say just go with whatever U2.com lists them as. Personally, I think it's an acceptable compromise for now though a discussion involving all the relevant editors to the article may help establish which solution is best.
MelicansMatkin (
talk)
01:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)reply
The tour website uses "New York, NY" and "Boston, MA" and so forth. But those are technically inaccurate and practice has already show that editors come in and change those to the actual stadium locations. That's why I thought the "New York area" etc. solution would be satisfactory to both camps.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
02:10, 11 May 2009 (UTC)reply
Even if Gothenburg eventually goes ahead perhaps these developments can be worked in somehow saying that doubts were raised. Anyway I'm leaving the sources here for those who work on this. --candle•wicke15:05, 28 July 2009 (UTC)reply
That's referring to the residents attempting to slow or block the dismantling of the stage, right? I'm not sure how it could be worked in, but in real-world terms it shouldn't affect Gothenburg at all. There are three stages being used throughout the tour; one the band are playing in the current city, one that is being constructed in the next venue, and one that is being transported to the venue after that. The Gothenburg stage should already be being constructed, so the protests shouldn't have any affect on it.
MelicansMatkin (
talk,
contributions)
15:13, 28 July 2009 (UTC)reply
hmmm. I am not sure. The list isn't that long which seems to be the main reason. If the tour had more dates then I'd be more in favour of it. It's nice if possible to have a single consolidated page. Consider that a separate dates list is more likely to be deleted. I am not necessarily recommending against it, just giving an opininon. --
Merbabu (
talk)
00:45, 4 September 2009 (UTC)reply
It should be left to it's original design. It's lest complex. If you're worried about space, edit the article down. It has tones of unnecessary and repetitive information in it.
75.21.92.78 (
talk)
11:25, 12 September 2009 (UTC)reply
Why has no other tour article had this happen? Probably because it's not necessary - in many cases, not necessary to have the dates, or the list of dates alone don't justify their own article. If the dates are taking up too much space in the article, why not have them hidden by default and allow a "show" link to make them appear?
Y2kcrazyjoker4 (
talk)
19:20, 17 September 2009 (UTC)reply
I think collapsing the tour dates is fine. But I'd also argue for collapsing the boxscore info, which is even more detailed (and redundant, in a way) than the tour dates.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
15:43, 26 September 2009 (UTC)reply
I checked and
MOS:COLLAPSE states that collapse mechanisms are bad in terms of accessibility and "should not be used in the article body" (they can be in infoboxes and navboxes), so Officially Mr X is correct to undo them. And he's also right that these aren't that long now, although they may become so by the end of the tour. Personally, I'm agnostic on tour dates lists; I don't create them for tour articles I start, but I don't take them out if others add them.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
19:58, 26 September 2009 (UTC)reply
You need to give us two different article versions, not two diffs, but assuming I'm looking at the right alternatives, I don't like the one that's broken up by supporting act. That's a relatively minor consideration that gets too much prominence in that scheme.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
01:38, 30 September 2009 (UTC)reply
Does anyone know when will they announce their 2nd North American Tour Dates? I missed their show in Toronto...and I hope to catch them next time they are near by...like Montreal, Ottawa or Hamilton. Thankx.
Mercenary2k (
talk)
15:23, 19 September 2009 (UTC)reply
http://www.u2.com/tour/index/
The 2010 European leg is confirmed.
"Following the success of the 2009 tour, U2 have confirmed that their acclaimed 360° Tour will continue in 2010. European fans who missed out in 2009 will have a new opportunity to experience the U2 360° Tour extravaganza with stops confirmed in Germany, Denmark, Finland, Russia, Austria, Greece, Turkey, France, Brussels, Spain and Portugal. Having just introduced the U2 Mobile Album, 'No Line On The Horizon', the band's 12th studio album, the 2010 tour will once again be sponsored by BlackBerry."
RayOfLight (
talk)
12:32, 24 September 2009 (UTC)reply
I wasn't too familiar with the table system myself, but I've managed to figure it out and have added the 12 new 2010 dates. I did remove the unconfirmed North America 2010 and Middle East dates though, as there is not anything to support their inclusion at this time. The infobox has been updated accordingly too.
MelicansMatkin (
talk,
contributions)
01:04, 25 September 2009 (UTC)reply
Tour images
Images of the tour are important to the article, since it (like most U2 tours) is an extremely visual show in addition to the musical content. Furthermore, images do not have to be taken from the front of the stage; the show is designed to appeal to audiences throughout the stadium, and those other perspectives are valuable for the reader to see as well. (Arguably, you can't fully appreciate the claw except from some distance back.) It's also okay to have to click on an image to get a full understanding of what it shows; that's true of almost all WP images, due to the article layout policy requiring thumbnail-size-only images in articles. Images in song articles are also valuable for these same reasons; our song articles tend to be visually dry recitations of release dates and chart statistics and remix track listings. Anything that can liven them up and illustrate points is all to the better.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
03:36, 8 October 2009 (UTC)reply
Per
WP:IMAGE - Poor quality images (too dark, blurry, etc.) or where the subject in the image is too small, hidden in clutter, ambiguous or otherwise not obvious, should not be used. Many of the images were too dark or blurry to actually see what the caption of the image was trying to convey. Furthermore, images shouldn't be used merely for decoration. That seems to be the case with most of these.
Y2kcrazyjoker4 (
talk)
03:41, 8 October 2009 (UTC)reply
I'll agree a couple of them weren't too good ("Magnificent", "Your Blue Room" for example) and I'm okay with them going out. But to pull both the images of "City of Blinding Lights" (for example)?? Those do a good job of showing the Willie Williams' lighting scheme for them on two different tours, which is a major part of that song's in-concert appeal. What Williams does isn't just "decorative" and neither are the images that show them.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
03:45, 8 October 2009 (UTC)reply
As for your comment "you can't make anything out of this image as a thumbnail", that will be true of almost any nighttime or low-light image on any subject. That doesn't mean they can't be used in WP. Real newspapers and magazines lay out images in much larger size relative to their stories than WP does. WP readers have to know about clicking to see the full-size image, otherwise they're going to think every article in WP is the worst-illustrated text of all time.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
03:49, 8 October 2009 (UTC)reply
I agree that image effectiveness shouldn't be judged on their in-article thumbnail size - if so, we could remove 90% of wikipedia images. That doesn't necessarily mean I agree with keeping these pics - I will wait and watch to see onto which side of the proverbial fence I fall. --
Merbabu (
talk)
04:47, 8 October 2009 (UTC)reply
I've added back in the "With or Without You" image to this article. It's the only one that shows the revolving light on top of the spire, which is a key thematic effect towards the end of the show. Someone who saw this image elsewhere said it showed U2's visual presentation was "painterly". It's that sense of the show in the large that the article needs to convey.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
13:26, 8 October 2009 (UTC)reply
I'm in favour of including some of these images, but not all of them. I think that the photographs of "Ultraviolet", "City of Blinding Lights", and "With or Without You" show a great deal in terms of how the band utilizes the stage for lighting. I'm less sure about "Get on Your Boots", "Crazy Tonight", and "New Year's Day". Although they are certainly good snaps, most of these (with the possible exception of "Crazy Tonight") use fairly straightforward lighting, and I'm not sure it conveys as well as it could. In the case of "Get on Your Boots" the stage is so dark that it is very difficult to see much more than the video screen.
MelicansMatkin (
talk,
contributions)
14:50, 8 October 2009 (UTC)reply
As I saw it, "Get on Your Boots" didn't use straightforward lighting – it was rendered in black and white, mostly black, which is why the stage is dark. That tells you something about how they were interpreting the song. You can look at a couple of the European show audience videos on YouTube to confirm (although they had more residual daylight in the summer than the U.S. shows did in the fall).
Wasted Time R (
talk)
23:59, 8 October 2009 (UTC)reply
With "Crazy Tonight", they used disco-style lighting, to try to reinforce the club feel of the mix. A better photo would capture that a little clearer as well as show Mullin playing the bongo around the catwalk, but I feel mine is better than nothing until then. For "New Year's Day" I was trying to show Edge playing piano, but this is a case where a close-to-the-stage photo would be more effective.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
01:04, 9 October 2009 (UTC)reply
I agree that the WOWY and COBL images should stay in their respective song articles for reasons mentioned above - but should be replaced if a better pic comes along. I think NYD pic is missing the mark though - nice idea and I agree with Wasted Time's thinking, but not that specific pic. In this case we should wait for a pic, rather than have Wasted Time's as a stop gap. As for this article, in my opinion UV pic is OK and WOWY is borderline - again, probably OK for now, but if a better one comes along... Not a comment on WT's photography - he just wasn't in the right place with the right gear. cheers --
Merbabu (
talk)
01:35, 9 October 2009 (UTC)reply
The gear could have been better (needed a tripod) but I was in the right place. The large majority of the audience sees the show from some distance, and it's designed to look good from some distance, and that's what we should depict (in addition to the cool shots of Bono and Adam mugging up close).
Wasted Time R (
talk)
02:16, 9 October 2009 (UTC)reply
Cheers on the Bono/Adam shot; I got lucky with that one. Maybe the issue is placement? I find that the "WOWY" pic does look a bit awkward immediately underneath the "Ultraviolet" shot. Since the aim of that image seems to be highlighting the discoball on the spire, maybe cropping it and moving it underneath the "TUF" video screen shot would work? Either way, could we stop with adding-removing-adding-removing and just try to sort it all out here?
MelicansMatkin (
talk,
contributions)
02:23, 9 October 2009 (UTC)reply
The long upright shape is actually good from a graphics perspective to use in a long text section – and cropping it sort of destroys the point, which is to show how high the full stage is over the actual music (I moved down a few rows during the encores as non-fans left so I could get this perspective). The NYT review of the show said the stage was part spaceship, part insect, part cathedral; I was trying to capture the last aspect here. And we are trying to sort it out here, but one editor keeps taking unilateral action.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
02:29, 9 October 2009 (UTC)reply
Ah, I see what you mean now about the image. Yes, it serves it's purpose quite well in illustrating the size of the full stage, but I do still think that it would work better in the "Stage" section as opposed to "Concert setlists" (though Merbabu's re-alignment works fairly well I think), even if only because that specifically mentions the height. I was planning on adding a "Reception" section soon, taken from a bunch of links I've gathered in
my sandbox. I think there's a NYT review in there, so maybe if we keep the image where it is for now and then shift it down once a Reception section is integrated? That way it could fully illustrate the NYT description.
MelicansMatkin (
talk,
contributions)
02:43, 9 October 2009 (UTC)reply
Yes, that's fine, it can go in any section. And yes, a "Reception" section would be a great addition. U2tours.com's show entries have lots of links to reviews, if you need any more (you probably have the opposite problem).
Wasted Time R (
talk)
02:50, 9 October 2009 (UTC)reply
I think that The Unfortgettable Fire image could be replaced with an image where you can better see the video screen descending. At the moment it looks more like a slightly bend curtain than a spherical video screen that "folds out". I reckon an image like
this would suit much better because it actually shows fully descended video screen reaching as low as the heads of the four lads on the stage. I could later upload my own picture, for example :)
ZooKristaps (
talk)
06:38, 9 October 2009 (UTC)reply
I like the current screen-from-below image because it gives an idea of the screen's inner workings; that's why it's good for the Stage design section that it's located in, as it illustrates the accompanying text. For illustrating "The Unforgettable Fire"'s overall video and lighting effects, it's not so good, that's why I think the one that I've restored to the
The Unforgettable Fire (song) article is better for that purpose. The image you pointed to is extremely dramatic because of the sky and deserves to be somewhere (if there are rights to it), although I don't think it captures "The Unforgettable Fire"'s particular visual theme quite as well.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
12:35, 9 October 2009 (UTC)reply
Yes, the purpose of the current "The Unforgettable Fire" pic is to show the video screen descending. The bottom part of the screen is already separated, while at the top the panels are all joined together. I put it in the Stage design section for that reason, since it shows the manner in which the screen descends.
MelicansMatkin (
talk,
contributions)
15:14, 9 October 2009 (UTC)reply
I've added a Reception section; it isn't as long as I thought it would be from the reviews I'd collected, but I'm sure more information will be added over time as information regarding its legacy will also be integrated in there. The "With or Without You" pic can be switched in now; I'm just not sure on whether the caption should be changed so that it reflects the purpose of the image. Though (and again, this is no slight on your photography), would
this image from Commons perhaps work better for that purpose?
MelicansMatkin (
talk,
contributions)
20:24, 11 October 2009 (UTC)reply
I'd say my "With or Without You" shows the mood better and the rays of light from the spire clearer. The Spanish one is taken later in the song, when more of the audience is lit and the scene is less dramatic. On the other hand, the new up-close Bono-and-steering-wheel-during-"Ultraviolet" photo may make my longer distance "Ultraviolet" unnecessary. (Best of all would be a photo that captures the laser beams actually extending away from the suit, which neither of them do.)
Wasted Time R (
talk)
00:07, 12 October 2009 (UTC)reply
Well, I like your picture because it shows the extent of the lighting on the stage, while mine is focused mainly on the steering wheel. If it's the lasers you're after I did also take
this one, but elected not to use it as it looks a bit more blurry and Bono is mostly hidden by the smoke. The shruken effect
still isn't particularly clear.
MelicansMatkin (
talk,
contributions)
01:25, 12 October 2009 (UTC)reply
That one doesn't show the steering wheel as well, but overall I like it better – the smoke captures the mood better and the slight blurriness captures the actual usage better – Bono was constantly in motion with, or relative to, the microphone.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
12:04, 12 October 2009 (UTC)reply
I don't want to continue this current edit war so I'll open this discussion instead. It is naturally mentioned on U2.com that the band are playing at Glastonbury, but that does not make it a part of the tour. If you look at the actual tour dates you will find that it is not listed;
see for yourself. I will also note that, although they are not official sources, neither
U2Gigs or
U2Tours lists it as a part of the tour. No source that I have seen says it is part of the tour either. The Glastonbury Festival is just an extra concert that they are playing in between tour dates. It is no more a part of U2 360° than
Live 8 was part of the
Vertigo Tour. Until there is an official announcement from a credible source (U2.com or Live Nation) that explicitly states the Glastonbury Festival date is a part of the U2 360° Tour (ex. the U2.com Tour Index adding the Glastonbury Festival to the tour dates), it is nothing more an
assumption and shouldn't be included.
I will note that I am not adverse to mentioning in the Itenarary section that part-way through the third leg they performed at Glastonbury, but since it is not part of the tour I am adament that it should not be included as such.
MelicansMatkin (
talk,
contributions)
20:49, 23 November 2009 (UTC)reply
This is a close call. There's a difference between benefit concert appearances such as
Live Aid or
Live 8 concert, London, where an artist typically only plays one to four songs and often appear even if they have no record or tour going on at the moment, and festival appearances, where major acts often play a full set or very close to it, especially if they're the headliner, and usually don't appear unless they are already out on tour. Festival appearances are included in Coldplay's
Viva la Vida Tour, in Springsteen's
Working on a Dream Tour (including Glastonbury), and so forth. I presume the difference with U2 will be that the claw won't be with them at Glastonbury. And that's probably why the Glastonbury appearance isn't listed on their tour page, so that fans don't think it will be. But if in other respects the appearance is similar in length and content to a U2 show, I would definitely consider including it.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
11:43, 24 November 2009 (UTC)reply
Per Melicans reasoning, it's apparent that it is not considered part of the tour however, a mention in the article is appropriate. If on the other hand,as Wasted says, the relevant sources (ie, U2) end up categorically saying - ie no Bonoisms (Songs of Ascent will never be released) - that it is part of the tour and the setlist is a U2 360 setlist, then maybe it should be reconsidered. --
Merbabu (
talk)
12:05, 24 November 2009 (UTC)reply
To break up the 2011 North American Tour into 2 different legs just because they played Glastonbury is utterly ridiculous. So one leg ends on June 22nd, and the next leg commences 4 days later. Farcical! And because they play in Glastonbury, that is denoted an entire leg of the 360 Tour! Even though the 360 stage was absent. Some people are clueless.
The decision to edit in this manner appears to have been a kneejerk one, given that the dates of all these events have been known for a long time. The 2011 North America leg has always been laid out correctly as a single leg, until this weekend when the Glastonbury performance took place. Only now does someone decide that the 2011 North America leg is actually 2 different legs, 4 days apart! — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Stevej565 (
talk •
contribs)
22:16, 27 June 2011 (UTC)reply
If anybody understands any of
this techy stuff, there's probably some good information regarding the way they mix the sound and such that could be incorporated. It's all gibberish to me, so I post this in the hopes that somebody else understands it.
MelicansMatkin (
talk,
contributions)
07:25, 2 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Perhaps I'm not reading this correctly, but my understanding is that the box office table shows every show on the tour as sold out? If so, that's completely and totally inaccurate. I know for a fact the Houston show did not sell out, as I work at the venue in question. I'm sure this was the case for many other shows during the US tour. High ticket prices and a weak economy ensured only a few US shows in major cities sold out completely. If we're going to post inaccurate data, I nominate the box office table for removal. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.151.207.229 (
talk)
07:34, 9 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Its also worth noting that Billboard has reported inaccurate information in the past (such as the incorrect tour name), and if the box office data is any indicator, perhaps they are not a reliable source of information. I would like to see the box office data as released by the band (verifiable). —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.151.207.229 (
talk)
07:53, 9 December 2009 (UTC)reply
WP:V; we can only go by what the sources tell us. Many of the seats that were sold likely went to business executives who never actually used them. It seems to be a common practice. Just because not everybody who had a ticket actually went to the concert it does not mean that they were not all sold (though I must admit, I would not be adverse to removing the box office table).
MelicansMatkin (
talk,
contributions)
15:35, 9 December 2009 (UTC)reply
I understand your point, but as I mentioned earlier, I work at the venue and was present the night of the show. Tickets in several price levels were still available at the box office during the performance. While its not unusual for promoters to release previously reserved tickets immediately prior to a show, there was never a point when tickets were unavailable to the public. Hence, it didn't sell out. Either the number of tickets available is inaccurate, or the number of tickets sold, but the table information is definitely inaccurate. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.151.207.229 (
talk)
07:25, 16 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Again,
WP:V; we have to post information that is verifiable, which is unfortunately not always what is true. Unless there is a
reliable source (something like Billboard, Rolling Stone, etc.) which says otherwise, we can only post what the information says. As I said before though, I would not be adverse to that table being removed, so if as you suggested in your intial post you would like to see it taken down, feel free to be
bold and make the edit yourself.
MelicansMatkin (
talk,
contributions)
05:12, 19 December 2009 (UTC)reply
When it comes to the pop music industry, verifiability is often not truth. I've been to shows that were listed as 'sold out' when there were clearly sections of empty seats. I've read newspaper reviews of shows that said song X was played when in fact it wasn't; the reporter had to leave to make a deadline and incorrectly assumed that a well-known hit was played later. I've even read a newspaper review of a show that said person Y was on stage when in fact he wasn't; when I emailed the reporter, she said she had relied on outdated press kit material and hadn't realized that Y had dropped off the tour earlier due to a personality clash. So it goes.
Wasted Time R (
talk)
14:48, 19 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Not necessarily, it boils down to how many seats the promoter thinks the artist can sell for the region. Also, its not about selling out every single seat in an arena or a stadium. It boils down to logistics and numbers. Plus, Billboard counts how many tickets were sold, not how many people actually show up in the arena. There are still people out there who buy tickets in bulk hoping to turn them over for a higher price. Information as far as numbers comes directly from what the arena posts and not the promoter.
Itsbydesign (
talk)
09:06, 2 June 2011 (UTC)reply
Thanks for your replies and thoughts on the subject. I attempted to remove the content as suggested by MelicansMatkin, but the edit was reverted by another fan. Oh well, I havent the tolerance for an edit war. Maybe the band will release official statistics at the conclusion of the tour. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.151.155.244 (
talk)
07:11, 23 December 2009 (UTC)reply
I did and it seems that the consensus was that regardless of whether the person who worked for the venue had inside information it's still original research and therefore the source from Billboard is still valid per wikipedia's verifiability policy. I don't see a real valid reason to remove it as long as it's source is reliable or verifiable and Billboard is just that.
75.22.20.86 (
talk)
22:34, 3 June 2010 (UTC)reply
There isn't really any reason for them to be included, or anywhere that they'd really fit right now. Posting a chart of the dates that are postponed comes across as a bit pointless to me. I mean, it really doesn't serve any useful purpose. Right now the dates have been moved below the leg 3 heading and hidden; once the rescheduled dates are announced I'm planning on amending that chart and adding a new column reading "originally scheduled for", or something to that effect. But at the moment, with no rescheduled dates set, there is really no reason for them to be displayed.
Melicans (
talk,
contributions)
03:55, 19 June 2010 (UTC)reply
Should we include this info on the page somewhere? Not under tour dates since it hasn't been officially annonced, but somewhere on the page. What do you all think?--
Starman15317 (
talk)
04:57, 13 September 2010 (UTC)reply
No, we should not. Until a show is actually announced or otherwise confirmed by U2 it is nothing more than a rumour. We do not dabble in rumours and speculation, only in concrete solid fact. That somebody is saying it is a possibility is not an open invitation to include unverifiable information. People have done so in the past on more than one occassion, and they have proven to be wrong before. The same goes for the rumours on shows in South America, South Africa, and Ireland next year. See the policies on
verifiability and
crystal ballery. If the dates are announced, even then it deserved nothing more than an inclusion on the tour dates table and a switch under tour dates for the last day of the leg. But until that occurs, rumours and speculation have no place in this (or any other) article.
Melicans (
talk,
contributions)
14:44, 13 September 2010 (UTC)reply
Boxscores (again)
Does anybody have the boxscore data for the completed third leg? Or is it as I suspected the last time these were discussed and the table will remain incomplete into perpetuity?
Melicans (
talk,
contributions)
19:42, 11 October 2010 (UTC)reply
They are usually published on a week-by-week basis; or at least they were during the first two legs. If nothing has been added by now I very much doubt we will ever get them, so the table will forever be incomplete.
Melicans (
talk,
contributions)
22:41, 19 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Now as the Billboard Touring Awards is over, numbers should be known. U2 won two awards, so Billboard has numbers, but I haven't seen any.
Are1981 (
talk)
21:58, 5 November 2010 (UTC)reply
The numbers would have been provided issue-by-issue as was the case for the last two legs. Now they are only available in back issues, which we have no access to, as the Billboard website does not contain those details. As I said before, it looks as if this table will be incomplete forever.
Melicans (
talk,
contributions)
00:00, 6 November 2010 (UTC)reply
You've stated your case with a fair source, so I'll agree with you. But you'd probably be given more slack if you were registered user. Unwarranted changes mostly come from unknown editors, which you appear as at this time. Just something to consider.--
MikeUMA (
talk)
15:22, 8 August 2011 (UTC)reply
If you're too blind to see the six or seven citations in the chart then that is your problem, not mine. This is not even a debate. Ellie Goulding (whoever she is) did not open for U2. She has never opened for U2. Ditto that with Vampire Weekend. All the proof that they didn't is already in the article. This isn't even a debate. Barefaced lies are not going to be propogated in this article.
Melicans (
talk,
contributions)
03:34, 28 September 2011 (UTC)reply
As it was apparently too difficult to see the seven different references at the top of the chart, I have moved them down so that there is one reference next to each leg. I sincerely hope that is the end of removing sourced information and adding untruths in their place.
Melicans (
talk,
contributions)
04:08, 28 September 2011 (UTC)reply
I think this article should be rated High importance on the bands significance, I will also try to get this into GA status. Any opinions? --
PrabashWhat?13:31, 18 June 2013 (UTC)reply
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I have tagged this article now for its multiple usage of fan website U2gigs.com (at least 8 times) in the article. This is a gross, unreliable fan website and I'm surprised that the primary contributors even resort to such sources for content expansion. Makes me question the credibility of this article as a GA. The tag should not be removed unless such references are removed/replaced. —
IB[
Poke ]12:52, 17 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Just to get this out of the way, I don't understand what you mean by "gross". This is not an offensive, disgusting site. Secondly, the tag you added to the article is not meant for reference/sourcing concerns, it is when the article body or the External Links section contains excessive or inappropriate links to other websites. Most importantly, the U2Gigs website has been discussed before in FA reviews for
Zoo TV Tour and
No Line on the Horizon, and in neither case was it judged to be unreliable or worthy of being removed.
Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (
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16:30, 17 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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