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![]() | This article contains a translation of Troupes de marine from fr.wikipedia. |
I thought that there were three separate things: Colonial Troops (other than the Senegalese or Algerian troops, which were always Army) which were moved about by the Navy, but did not storm beaches; Marine Infantry ("Fantassins marins," nicknamed "Marsouins"); and Marine Artillery ("artillerie marin," or so, nicknamed "Bigors"). The last two are indeed equivalent to what became the Royal Marines and the USMC. But in France, they have been subsumed under the Army, not hanging around the Navy. What is the author of this piece doing by confusing this with the descendants of the Colonial Troop forces? I can't figure it out. Further, there are specialized commando units, too. This is difficult to sort out by web sources in English or simple French (i.e., not an on-line volume of military history). -- Sobolewski 23:46, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Troupes de Marine are the same thing as Troupes Coloniales, just having been renamed, Zouaves and Tirailleurs were therefore part of it. Often, marsouins and bigors refer to the troupes de marine as "la coloniale", and most of the traditions of troupes de marine are indeed inherited from colonial traditions. I understand your confusion, but initialy, in the very olden days it was troops serving onboard ships, but were later transformed into troops who were specialised in combat on land and just travelling on ships, at that point a lot of people from the French colonies were enrolled in the troupes coloniales. -- Blastwizard 12:28, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
The USMC is an entity with air,naval and ground force, TDM are not so separated from the Ground Force.
If you want to compare the organization, you will compare USMC with the Gendarmerie Nationale which have sea, air and land competance but for police operation (so they aren't like the USMC on this point).
I'm having a lot of trouble getting the dates and names of the predecessor marine organizations to the TDM straight. I was able to see snippets of Louis Beausza, "La formation de l'armee coloniale", Paris, L. Fournier et cie., 1939 on Google Books and think that it might have the best analysis. The other book that I put in the References section of the article - Arthur Girault, "Principes de colonisation et de législation coloniale", L. Larose et L. Tenin, 1907 has some information. Another source is "Journal du palais: recueil le plus ancien et le plus complet de la jurisprudence" By Ledru-Rollin, Cours, France, Cour de cassation, Cours d'ap in the discussion of 2 July 1840. The last two are completely readable on Google Books. I don't read French, so it would probably best if a French speaker checked this out. Jmosman ( talk) 20:44, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was move the page back to Troupes de marine, per the discussion below. If it's necessary to change the capitalization of the title, feel free to do so. Dekimasu よ! 12:36, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Naval Troops → Troupes de marine — Naval troops is a made up and wrong translation — Blastwizard ( talk) 09:33, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.This page was moved unilaterally to Naval troops from Troupes de Marine, this is plain wrong and misleading, as Troupes de Marine are not naval troops at all but, an amphibious or airborne branch of French army, specialised in overseas operations. Troupes de Marine is the only designation for this unit. In addition, there is no point to find an literal English translation, on the French wikipedia, the article on Royal Marines, is called Royal Marines and does not have a dubious translation in the title. Blastwizard 22:55, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Support, but it seems to have been done already. Andrewa 11:10, 18 August 2007 (UTC) (note that this vote was originally posted here before the poll heading existed, and before Mesoso2 moved the page back to Naval Troops against the consensus that was already developing here against this action. It's now duplicated in the poll, but I think it should stay here too for historical reasons. Andrewa ( talk) 19:05, 28 November 2007 (UTC))
Should the m of Troupes de Marine be capitalised? I notice Blastwizard does this, and claims to have served with them. Andrewa ( talk) 19:05, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
This is not directly related to the article, but I wonder if somebody knows how the Troupes de Marine stack up against the USMC? Of the four main branches in the US military, the Marines are known to be the toughest, and "tough" is the word most Americans associate with the USMC. So I wonder if the Troupes de Marine are the "toughest" major branch of the French military and how they stack up in that same category against the USMC? Anybody?
Wonder what's the point of these kind of comparisons, anyway, the toughest unit in the French armed forces is certainly by far the Foreign Legion who really are in a league of their own. As for the Troupes de Marine (TDM), they are not really a major branch, but one of the speciality (like cavalry, infantry, artillery, ...) within the French army. As one of the first corps of French army to become fully professional (was semi-professional during the draft, but in large with professionals) it can be considered as one of the toughest wihtout belittling other units, and mainly because TDM are part of the spearheads of French army.
Fellow Troopers:
The Troupes de Marine are NOT Marines in the RM or USMC sense.
The REAL French Marines are the Fusiliers Marines, part of the French Navy. They wear naval uniforms and use naval ranks.
Sorry to disagree on that, as Marines are troops specialised in overseas operations, which is the role of the Troupes de Marine within French armed forces, whereas Fusiliers marins' main function is to protect French naval bases; the Commandos on the other hand are French equivalent of British SBS or US Navy seals. It is not because the fusiliers marins, wear naval uniforms and are part of the navy that they are marines, anyway USMC is not part of the US Navy either. But to be fair, fusiliers marins and troupes de marine were from 1622 (compagnies ordinaires de la mer) to 1856 the same unit, and were separated with the fusiliers marins for protecting naval bases and troupes de marine (troupes coloniales) for oversea operations. In addition, troupes de marine were for a long time under the supervision of ministry of sea before being transfered to the ministry of defense. -- Blastwizard 12:28, 18 January 2006 (UTC) WHAT ABOUT THE TDM PARTICIPATE IN COUP DE FORCE IN AFRICA TDM IN AFGANISTAN ARE THE REAL MARINES YES IS A SECTION OF THE FRENCH NAVY CALLED COMMANDO MARINE GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TROUPES DE MARINES ALSO NO TDM ARE EQUIVALANT OF USMC OR ROYAL MARINE DIFFERENT UNIT FOR DIFFERENT PURPOSES STILL OUR PARATROOPERS OUR TANKS AND ARTILLERIE ARE BELONG TO THE FRENCH TROUPES DE MARINE AND COMANDO MARINE ARE SOMETHING ELSE BELONG TO THE FRENCH NAVY ALSO NOTHING TO DO WITH FOREIGN MARINES EX COLONIAL TROUPER OH EXCUSE ME A MARSOUIN )
Does the following link sets the argument once for all? | 3 Commando Brigade and 9eme BLBMA joint exercices. Blastwizard ( talk) 23:22, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
There is no evidence that any units of the Artillerie Coloniale were present at Gallipoli. Reliable sources that underpin this sweeping assertion have not materialised. Keith H99 ( talk) 16:09, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
There is also a wild and sweeping assertion that two thirds of the Corps expéditionnaire d'Orient were composed of Troupes coloniales, and no evidence whatsoever to support this "theory". Keith H99 ( talk) 16:13, 20 August 2020 (UTC)