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Was there any confirmed derecho events in the deep south? And also what was the actual prominence. I know some storms became close, however the overall increase of low-level shear stopped significant long term winds from upscaling.
Wikiwillz (
talk)
04:26, 16 June 2023 (UTC)reply
I think you should make this about the tornadoes, a derecho was never confirmed, talking about the 6 EF2, and 1 EF3 tornadoes. Also talk about the Florida flash flooding in a Non tornadic effects section.
Meowmeowcat12 (
talk)
00:12, 18 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Go to list of tornadoes in June 2023 page for updated information
I know @
ChessEric is pretty knowledgeable on synoptic scale stuff. Is this not a sequence? These tornadoes mainly occurred from shortwaves of a greater pattern shift across the US. Currently it's just an outbreak.
Wikiwillz (
talk)
19:14, 20 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Yeah this was a sequence. I will move it later tonight.
@
ChessEric,
TornadoInformation12, and
Wikiwillz: Probably wouldn't hurt to add the wind damage surveyed by BMX (released in a PNS) to the non-tornadic effects section. It made a lot of news in Birmingham and some of the area had power outages lasting several days due extensive tree and power line damage.
United States Man (
talk)
03:31, 22 June 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Wxtrackercody I'm going to need you to explain "Canada severe is geographically different." A sequence does not have to be from the same system and we have made sequence articles from differing systems in the past. Remember that we should give equal weight here to Canada as the United States per
WP:NPOV.
Wikiwillz (
talk)
18:45, 22 June 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Wikiwillz: Tornado outbreaks by definition occur over the same geographic location. The Canada tornado did not occur in the same geographic location as the areas affected by the 14-19 event (Southern U.S.), so it doesn't count toward extending the sequence. Also, tornado outbreak sequences only allow one day without significant tornado activity. The 19th only had 3 tornadoes (which does not qualify as an outbreak), ending the sequence on that day, particularly since the 20th did not have any tornado activity at all in the US.
wxtrackercody (
talk ¡
contributions)
19:31, 22 June 2023 (UTC)reply
The tornadoes in Canada are literally in the same geographic region. It's the reason that region of Canada gets tornadoes. There were also tornadoes in North Dakota on the 20th, so it's politically in the United States as well. Furthermore outbreak sequences do not require consecutive outbreaks or else they would be their own articles. The entire point is that it was multiple tornado events in succession. I'd like more opinions on this, as it should be more of a "what's best for the article" situation instead of semantics, but you're incorrect.
Wikiwillz (
talk)
23:26, 22 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Canada is not remotely close to the Southern U.S. geographically. They are completely different areas. Neither the 19th nor the 20th constitute tornado outbreaks. Tornado outbreak sequences do require very little down time between outbreaks. By your argument, as long as there's a single tornado occurring somewhere in the United States each day, then there's a never-ending tornado outbreak sequence. That is far too broad.
wxtrackercody (
talk ¡
contributions)
23:33, 22 June 2023 (UTC)reply
The current outbreak sequence was not situated in just the south. It spanned across the entire United States, tornado reports and warnings reached north Colorado and North Ohio. They are related in that they're all caused by the same pattern shift and wind convergence intensification, it would be silly to try to link them by system strictly; as they're all from shortwave perturbations. My argument is not in support of them being in succession alone, but by their meteorological significance. If you would like to draw a clear distinction between the systems instead of the reprieve between tornadic events, you need to do that... otherwise the article has vague margins and will just confuse readers.
Wikiwillz (
talk)
23:42, 22 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Not sure what is confusing. The period of elevated activity ended on the 19th. Tornadoes happen nearly every day in June, which is covered by the monthly list page. Perhaps with more experience you won't be quite as confused.
United States Man (
talk)
03:51, 23 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Haha, I appreciate the suggestion, even if it's giving ad hominem. What's the threshold for "elevated activity?" My worry is on the particular line that's drawn. First I was told it was geographic but that's not true. There is a point to be made within the branch of meteorology that the occurrence of the tornadoes from 19th-22nd did happen, and were related synoptically.
Wikiwillz (
talk)
04:32, 23 June 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Wikiwillz: The Colorado/Ohio tornado activity you mentioned for the 14th-19th occurred earlier in the outbreak sequence, not on the 19th-20th. The primary activity for 18-19 shifted towards the Gulf Coast. While scattered severe weather continued over a broad area of the continent, there was a clear shift to a new system that moved out of the Rockies on the 19th. The possible tornadoes in Manitoba and North Dakota (the latter of which doesn't appear to be reported/confirmed as far as I can tell) would align with that new system rather than the stalled out front in the South. In the context of a tornado outbreak sequence, a two day lull in activity (<6 tornadoes, the rough bar for a "tornado outbreak") would end the sequence. Severe weather without tornadoes would not link any events. ~
Cyclonebiskit (
chat)
14:47, 23 June 2023 (UTC)reply
I appreciate the explanation. I looked over the WVI and you're right, there's a much larger distinction than I originally thought. Sorry for stringing you guys on, I just wanted to be sure.
Wikiwillz (
talk)
16:51, 23 June 2023 (UTC)reply