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"have been a source of ongoing controversy." --This needs to be sourced. 1. I don't think it's an ongoing controversy because of the time that has passed and 2. A few people posting articles in newspapers does not count as "controversy" at all. --How many people responded to the article? How many people know the professor? controversy is much too strong a word for this little tiff. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.138.196.133 ( talk) 05:23, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
70.185.177.245 ( talk) 21:05, 20 September 2015 (UTC) It's a controversy to 'them'.
"revert, unsourced and irrelevant claim about the student's ethnicity)"
In regards to the page I read a day or two ago. The claim was sourced, the source used was also reputable. http://www.thejc.com/arts/books/731/review-history-lesson-a-race-odyssey
I still do not see how it is irrelevant, especially when most of this entire page is either about Jewish people and Tony Martin, or Tony Martin and Jewish people. In the context of this current article it makes perfect, relevant, sense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.195.83.11 ( talk) 03:18, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
The definition of controversy is usually "Disagreement, typically when prolonged, public, and heated" -So, I ask for a source that follows the traditional desc. Eminem for example would be considered 'controversial' his music was debated publicly, in the congress, on television, on radio etc etc.
I do not believe that two or three people with a few newspaper articles would count as 'controversy' -I mean go on youtube and search for the professor's name and videos - the view count from 3 years ago (on most) is a paltry 2,100 views. Far from being a public name let alone a "controversial" character.
Please source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.246.233.218 ( talk) 18:08, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
I have cleaned up the article, removed unsourced and poorly sourced material, NPOVed the article text and wikified it as needed. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 23:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
This is a bio article about a Professor. These sources don't belong here. Kaisershatner 15:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
This article is far more neutral and informative than the previous versions written by Martin himself, under the guise of "avocadop". Given his propensity to censor i.e. remove any material that is less than fully flattering, as well as the addition of the aforementioned non-biographical material simply to incite hatred of Jews, I suggest that this current version be given "protected" status.
There is so much unfairness is the above presentation. Anything that embarasses Jewish self esteem is deemed to be anti-semitic - and I am Jewish too. He has been accused of seeking to incite hatred by telling the truth! If the truth is embarassing, apologies and get over it. I have amended the text to show that there are Black Jews who support Tony Martin's right to discuss the role of Jews in the Slave Trade. Napata102 19:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)Dapo Ladimeji
"Napata102" appears to be the latest of Martin's designated lackies, assigned to whitewash his/her idol's lies, slanders, incitement and outright support for genocidal racism against Jews, regardless of Napata's proclaimed ethnic/religious identity. In fact, many so-called "Black Jews" - such as the kind one sees with bullhorns on 42nd Street in Manhattan - regularly chant the most vile racist diatribes against what they call the "false" (i.e non-black) Jews, replete with the usual Nazi slogans. In that case, this hardly disproves the viewpoint of Martin's critics that his singling out of the Jewish role in the slave trade is disproportionate, and quite possibly motivated by a far more deep-seated racism against Jews and desire to incite hatred and violence against them.
It seems like this article is getting to be a collection of "this side thinks" and "that side thinks". I agree that very often, truth is not on one side, and there are at least two points of views on each story. But last time I checked wikipedia, the Holocaust did happen, and those who deny it did are called holocaust deniers. So let's not start fake debates, like, quote: "Anything that embarasses Jewish self esteem is deemed to be anti-semitic", followed by the ever-popular argument "and I am Jewish too".
Benisek00
14:42, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I have tried to edit this article several times in vain efforts to introduce something resembling a neutral point of view. Lately, I've attempted several times to delete one particularly egregious paragraph under the rubric of Professor Martin's anti-Semitic "Jewish Onslaught" screed; the paragraph I have tried to delete deals with an editorial written by Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates about the Nation of Islam's anti-Jewish conspiracy on the slave trade. The paragraph essentially amounts to a gratuitous smear of Professor Gates, who wrote his editorial two years before Martin wrote "The Jewish Onslaught": the paragraph in question contributes nothing to either the factual content of the dispute or to the questions that motivated Martin's fulminations. It is merely a slander of Gates, one using an offensive and racially insensitive epithet, at that. It has absolutely no place in a Wikipedia article, and yet every time I delete it "somebody" ("avocadop"?) re-introduces it, whole cloth.... Little help, anybody?! Zarafan 16:23, 4 March 2007
Dear Kasisershatner: Thank you for your response. I think Martin's criticism of Gates is something of a non-issue: instead of raising a substantive critique of Gates's scholarship or politics, he offers a series of increasingly offensive insults--to a person who has never baited, attacked, or responded to Martin directly. Is every aspect of Martin's personality of issue in a WP article? How much rope do we need to give for this guy to hang himself? In an article about Lyndon LaRouche, for example, is it enough to say that he's a conspiracy theorist who makes reckless charges about world leaders, or do we have to quote exactly why he thinks Henry Kissinger and Queen Elizabeth are involved in the drug trade?
With respect to the general neutrality of the article, I think it's much better than it once was, and as I say I've tried to play a role in changing it from a puff piece into an encyclopedia article. But it's an "objective" truth that Tony Martin is a pathetic bigot who has squandered whatever academic reputation he once had in service of his own anti-Semitic obsessions, and that's something that a WP article cannot speak to, for obvious stylistic and methodological reasons. Barring a unanimous and universal consensus that he's merely a nutjob, I think there are two areas where this entry might be improved: (1) the so-called academic responses to the Jewish Onslaught--from the likes of Molefi Asante (a fellow Afrocentrist, and though a more important academic figure than Martin, not exactly a neutral observer) and "Jewish scholar" Steve Bloom (whoever in the world that is)--really amount to flak-work on behalf of Martin. They need at least to be better contextualized, if not deleted. (2) There really needs to be a better concluding or summary paragraph for this entry; the assertion that the Holocaust did occur, or else that Martin has signed on to a pamphlet which denies the existence of the Holocaust, though suitably goofy enough to discredit Martin in the eyes of nearly anybody, reads too much like an equivocation or anti-climax. Thanks again for your response to my query. Zarafan
Dear Kaisershatner: Thanks for your clarification; I'll continue to keep an eye on this article. zarafan
Weasle words are all over this, is this allowed in a BIO?? No it isnt so why is it here. Why have a section about Holocaust denying when Martin Never denied the holocaust and said it isnt his area to say anything for or against. But putting it in that language paints the picture that he is part of some crowd. And that stupid tag is history let me tell you that. -- Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ 20:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Tony Martin remains proudly a son of Trinidad, West Indies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.70.227.132 ( talk • contribs) 19:46, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
I edited this article pretty thoroughly today and checked all the sources. I think it's neutral now and propose eliminating the tag. 86.44.89.116 ( talk) 16:36, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
Seems any edits are reverted by Jayjig. He is always right you know. But Hitler is best know for being Evil, racist, etc. However you do not add it before his name anytime it is mentioned. Osama Bin Ladin is best known as a terrorist, but do you insert it before his name every time it appears on wikipedia? PHD, is a title, Scholar is a profession, Holocaust denier is an ACT.not something obtained in a university. The problem here is to try and throw as much negative associations in front of Tony Martin to give the reader the illusion of him being a Holocaust Denier or guilty by association (since there is no evidence of him Holocaust denying). I am using the talk page, please use it before constantly undoing my work-- Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ ( talk) 00:25, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
Stop removing the Jewish Chronicle source about the alleged harassment of a Jewish student. It is pertinent to the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.246.233.218 ( talk • contribs) 21:30, 31 October 2011 UTC
I think it makes plenty of sense to keep the fact that she was a Jewish woman up. Amongst other reasons; most of this article seems to be about the professor's writings and or interactions with Jewish people. That said, I see no reason why it should not be included in the article. The source of the information is also reputable and really, NPOV? It's not the editors point of view that she was Jewish, it's a published fact that she was/is. I also see nothing in violation of WP:NOT. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.195.83.11 ( talk) 03:10, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
I agree with the above poster. I don't know why this edit was undone, I'm reverting it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.138.196.133 ( talk) 05:18, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
More info on death, I think It was me that added that he died, some more info would be good.-- Inayity ( talk) 16:33, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
It can get tricky when we start putting in terms like Alleged. It becomes like the word so-called. Because what is the criteria. It is political. Tony Martin wrote on Jewish involvement in the Atlantic Slave trade, there is nothing disputed about that. From the POV that he did write about that topic with that title (a fact) and from the historical POV that Jews were involved in the slave trade another fact. No reading of NPOV supports "alleged" and other migratory statements which clearly are political to debunk his work. And that is a problem, because it introduces bias. Let the sources for and against speak for themselves. and I have noticed how the article on Jewish involvement got the title (antisemitic canard) so we all know what this is about.-- Inayity ( talk) 20:28, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
Jewish responsibility for the Slave Trade is very different from Jewish Involvement. There is no using terminology to change reality. So when you say "responsibility" you make it look like he is saying Jews were all to blame, he did not say that. World's of difference and clearly misrepresents what he is discussing. Ref, Role in, involvement, he did not say Responsibility, so why is it there? So the crux of the matter is make the statement in NPOV terms as it is ! He wrote on Jewish involvement/role in the Atlantic slave trade. Just as people write about African involvement/role in the Slave Trade. Hardly deserving of alleged. because if it is alleged for one, then it must be alleged for all. -- Inayity ( talk) 17:23, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Tony Martin (professor)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
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This article falls considerably short of the standards of Wikipedia; it is full of unsourced claims and it is completely biased in its presentation of a controversial, if obscure, individual. Tony Martin is "considered by many to be the foremost scholar on the life of Marcus Garvey"? Really: by whom, exactly? What is the rating system for evaluating scholars of Marcus Garvey? The article also claims that Martin's work, "The Jewish Onslaught," one of the most ludicrously anti-Semitic diatribes to have been published in America in recent years, was written in response to efforts by the Anti-Defamation League and other Jewish groups to repress Martin's scholarship. Is this claim documented? Is it even credible? It is further worth asking why this article stops its narration of Martin around the year 1993: has he done anything of merit since then? Has he published a book since the Jewish Onslaught? Or have "the Jews" succeeded in their efforts to "silence" him? Far from being a first-rate scholar of Marcus Garvey, Martin since the mid-nineties has been nothing better than a second-rate Leonard Jeffries. His Wikipedia article, to the extent that he merits an article at all, should reflect this. |
Last edited at 19:27, 26 December 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 09:03, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
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