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I've moved this article from Thunderbird (cryptid) because there is no need to use the slang term "cryptid" in article titles, especially where a real word will suffice! 80.255 08:41, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)
That, 80.255, is exactly the point. By describing it as Thunderbird (animal), you are trying to insert the point of view that it exists. That is simply pushing your point of view. It would be equally wrong—though doubtless much more accurate— to title his Thunderbird (dreamed-up-fantasy). I moved it back to cryptid (and will continue to do so) because that is the correct and neutral term. It both recognises that the claim is regarded as fanciful/fictional, and that there are people who take it seriously. It strikes an appropriate balance. Tannin 11:30, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)
3000 Google hits and you are calling this a "small group" and a "slangy term"? If it is slang, why do we have an article on it?
I swear I've seen that photo, and I know it was before 'freaky links' existed, but it might have still been a fake made to illustrate the idea of the original. Actually it looked more like an old-timey drawing, like the original political cartoons.
Update: There's a sketch based on descriptions of the 'photo' at Cryptozoology.com. I don't know their copyright policy, but if it's ok, perhaps that culd be posted here- making clear it's an artist's conception. As an aside- it's certainly not MY recollection: I remember seeing a pic outside with cowboys just standing around, not stretched alongside. And the critter I remember was much less obviously birdlike and limp. CFLeon 03:26, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Would it be utterly wrong to add right|288px|thumb to the article, it seems barren without some artists impression. On the other hand, it is quite kitch to put a pokemon in a cryptid article -- zacius
He claimed to have seen it fly over a thunderhead cloud that was over a group of hills to the south that was approximately one and a half miles from where he was standing. The boy claimed that from his point of view it looked the size that a crow-sized bird would at twenty feet away. From this it could be assumed that the flying creature reported had a wingspan of around twenty-five feet.
Removed a troll's rants. CFLeon 00:42, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Just removed this:
"A Thunderbird was reported in Wichita Kansas in the early hours of the morning late in November of 2006 by the self proclaimed three-time alternate for People Magazine’s Sexiest Man Alive, Charles Coley II. The overwhelmed Coley described a gargantuan birdlike creature that was staring at him as he walked out of his house. Coley was found to not be under the influence of any controlled substances." Totnesmartin 20:22, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
I have a friend who lives next door to me. He didn't say it was but from the description it sounds like what he and his friend saw was a thunderbird. Monksbane 6:51, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Is this the origin of the much sought-after Thunderbird picture? Titanium Dragon 06:27, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
That picture is a life size cutout of Argentavis —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fishlover3 ( talk • contribs) 14:48, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
This might be what you are looking for
photo — Preceding unsigned comment added by BDUAres ( talk • contribs) 02:05, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
Would one of you eager-beaver cryptozoology-oids please trim the crypto content at Thunderbird (mythology); that page is supposed to be for aboriginal mythologies about the Thunderbird, not latter-day cryptozological mythology. I'll give it a day for someone to migrate/merge the stuff about crypto and the teratorn on that page and then I'm just going to delete it....no wonder aboriginal/indigenous people haven't seen fit to add to taht page; it's a "white man's fantasy" page, as one of my native acquaintances might describe it. They take one look at the content "you" have put there, and decide it has nothing to do with them, so leave. Please be mindful of the purpose of articles and their titles, OK?
The following blockquote was placed onteh Thunderbird (mythology) page where it does not belong. Please do not place it back here. I dlno't ahve time to try and fit it into this article; n o doubt some of the same authors/content is involved, but please respect the purpose of teh mythology article.
==Contemporary cryptozoological sightings== <!--this section should be moved or cropped--> {{main|Thunderbird (cryptozoology)}} There is a story that in April [[1890]], two [[cowboy]]s in [[Arizona]] killed a giant birdlike creature with an enormous wingspan. It was said it had smooth skin, and featherless wings like a [[bat]]. Its face resembled an [[alligator]]. This description has more than a cursory similarity to the prehistoric [[pterodactyl]]. They dragged the carcass back to town, and it was pinned, wings outstretched across the entire length of a barn. There is supposed to be a picture of this event, that may or may not have been published in the local newspaper, the ''Tombstone Epitaph''. Despite numerous people who have claimed to have seen this photograph recently, no one has ever been able to produce a copy of the picture nor make historic corroboration that this event ever occurred, and it is most likely an [[urban legend]]. [[Ivan Sanderson]] is perhaps the best-known person who claimed to have seen this [[Thunderbird Photograph]]. <!-- Image with unknown copyright status removed: [[Image:BIRD1.jpg|{{speedy-image-c|[[2007-05-30]]}} ]] --> There have also been thunderbird sightings more recently. In the [[1960s]] and [[1970s]], sightings of a large bird the size of a [[Piper Cub]] airplane were made in [[Washington]], [[Utah]], and [[Idaho]]. On occasion, such reports were accompanied by large footprints or other purported evidence. Among the most controversial reports is a [[July 25]], [[1977]] account from [[Lawndale, Illinois]]. About 9 p.m. a group of three boys were at play in a residential back yard. Two large birds approached, and chased the boys. Two escaped unharmed, but the third boy, ten-year-old Marlon Lowe, did not. One of the birds reportedly clamped his shoulder with its claws, then lifted Lowe about two feet off the ground, carrying him some distance. Lowe fought against the bird, which released him.[http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm345064.html] Viewed by some as a [[tall tale]], the descriptions given by the witnesses of these birds match that of a [[Condor|California condor]]: a large black bird with a wingspan up to 10 feet. In South America, some [[Andean condor]]s are purported to attack and carry away newborns when very hungry or otherwise starved, but it is unknown whether this is based in fact as condors do not hunt live prey. In [[2002]], a new sighting in [[Alaska]] was announced; the most probable explanation was a stray [[Steller's Sea Eagle]].
Some cryptozoologists first theorized that the thunderbird myth is based on sightings of a real animal. Regarding the question whether such a large bird could have flown at all, the prehistoric vulture-like Aiolornis incredibilis (previously known as Teratornis) which was described in 1909 had a wingspan of around 5 m (16 ft) and was capable of flight, but probably would have favored heavy winds to facilitate takeoff. This bird, however, was almost certainly never seen alive by human beings, but a slightly smaller relative, Teratornis merriami must have been frequently encountered by early Amerindians.
It is generally believed that Merriam's Teratorn was a dynamic soarer, riding upcurrents of heated air. Their finger bones have adapted to bear the load of huge primaries, allowing them to maneuver expertly in strong updrafts, as typically found associated with storms (Campbell & Tonni, 1983).
Paleontologists reject the continuing existence of a large and conspicuous bird like Aiolornis or Teratornis in modern times, and anthropologists point out that American Indian thunderbirds were not especially similar to this creature (and usually not very similar to birds at all). The changes of "thunderbird" records over the years - from pterodactyl-like beings in the late 19th and early 20th century to teratorn-like birds becoming prominent from the middle 20th century onwards, as reconstructions of teratorns were reaching a wider audience - suggest that most records are considerably shaped by underlying expectations. In a similar vein, cryptozoologist John Keel states that his mapping of Thunderbird sightings corresponded chronologically and geographically with storms moving across the United States, but this is only to be expected in either case.
It is furthermore telling that thunderbirds are commonly described as condor-like; while an old vernacular name of Aiolornis is "Giant Condor", this is erroneous since the two birds are not very closely related, and while many early reconstructions of teratorns show condor-like birds, it is far from certain that the birds looked very alike, and indeed even considered not likely at all today.
However, it is generally accepted that the first people that settled North America did in fact encounter Teratornis merriami, making it the largest flying bird ever seen alive by modern humans. American Indian tales of mammoth-like animals suggest that it is possible for oral tradition of an incredible creature to survive 10,000 years. Thus, the most likely explanation for the Thunderbird legends is that they are mythologically expanded narratives based on the Teratornis encounters 12 millennia ago who?. Midden remains citation needed prove that Merriam's Teratorns were hunted and eaten by Amerindian settlers. There is also some sort of picture of the Thunderbird in El Paso, Texas on the Franklin Mountains.
'Nuff said I hope. Skookum1 ( talk) 03:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm curious to know what evidence you have to say no Aiolornis survived to the time of humans? Late Pleistocene remains have been uncovered of them, and humans came to North America somewhere between 20,000 and 13,000 years ago.-- 75.175.83.76 ( talk) 11:10, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
Update - It has recently come to my attention that a new species of Teratorn was found at Woodburn, Oregon (Campbell & Stenger, 2002) at a 12,000 year old site which has evidence of human habitation. The partial skeleton includes a humerus which is over 14 inches long. The species is estimated to have had a wingspan of over 4 meters (14 feet), which puts this bird's size somewhere between Merriam's Teratorn and Aiolornis Incredibilis. Perhaps this now opens the window to the possibility that Aiolornis sized birds may indeed have lived up to as recently as 10,000 years ago? -- 75.175.83.76 ( talk) 02:26, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
The idea that such big birds, Aiolornis, or Woodburnensis sized with 14 to 18 ft wingspans could have existed up until say, recent memory I would say is really not all that far fetched when we realize how many species have gone extinct in the last 200 years alone. Lewis and Clark shot and measured a Condor up near the Columbia river, just north of Portland in 1806 which had a 9 foot 2 inch wingspan! These 9 to 10 foot Condors were a common feature of Pacific North West landscape just 200 years ago, so a few relict 12 to 18 foot birds probably can't be ruled out completely.-- 75.175.83.76 ( talk) 02:35, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
If I am not mistaken, the site at Woodburn has been dated tentatively at between 10,800 and 12,800 years BP. The humerus and skull bones of the giant Teratorn found at Legion Park near Woodburn, Oregon and officially named "Teratornis Woodburnensis" in 2002 (According to the "Woodburn Independent" Aug. 31, 2005) was calculated at some 14 feet (4.26 meter) of wingspan. Furthermore some remnants of the giant fossil Teratorn Aiolornis with its 16 - 18 ft (5 -5.5 meter) wingspan, have also been found in late Pleistocene deposits. This suggests Teratorns of appreciable sizes of 4 - 5 meters potentially existing as late as perhaps, 10,000 years before present, and certainly there were modern anatomical human beings in North America at that time. There is no burden of proof as of yet to suggest one to believe these birds lingered on several thousand years beyond the beginning of our Holocene epoch, but in the great scheme of evolutionary history the difference between 10,000 BP and say 3,000 BP isn't a huge jump in geological and biophysical imagination; of course, skeletal evidence is needed to confirm such a theory. Regardless, it is a fair statement to say anatomically modern human beings co-existed with perhaps two or more species of gigantic Teratorn in North America between 20,000 and 10,000 years ago.
-- 71.32.244.160 ( talk) 04:57, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
Please do not return this information to the article without a citation.-- BirgitteSB 14:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm an Native American & Related to One of The Cowboys. However The Photo is in Fact Real Not Faked Because I have it in Basement. I Even Saw the Thunderbird once But Ddid not report it, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.188.106.35 ( talk) 12:01, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Removed this, because I don't think the quality is good, and it was in the wrong section. citation needed are my contributions.
This great and enormous bird is from the old indian tribes. Not many would know about this gigantic bird, but it is said that this bird was actually a human with a bow and arrow. citation needed This bird has apparently been appearing lightly (or so people think they see it). citation needed This bird was said to have a head of 2 ft. and the wingspan up to 9 ft. long. citation needed This bird has great potential and it has been said that it can create one of the most stongest storms. Some people think that a "Thunderbird" is to have electric currents through its wings or that its an extremly gigantic bird is completely blue resembling thunder. citation needed
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I wonder why no one ever added the complete description from the Epitaph? Possibly because a 160 foot wingspan is less plausible that just "an enormous wingspan", and the detailed description doesn't fit other speculations as well. -- tronvillain ( talk) 20:38, 11 June 2018 (UTC)