This article was nominated for
deletion on March 6, 2018. The result of
the discussion was delete.
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following
WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
U.S. state of California on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject CaliforniaCalifornia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Rock music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Rock music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Rock musicWikipedia:WikiProject Rock musicTemplate:WikiProject Rock musicRock music articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Metal, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
heavy metal music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MetalWikipedia:WikiProject MetalTemplate:WikiProject MetalHeavy Metal articles
Totally agree. This has to be kept alive now. This is becoming legend. The guy is now famous for all the wrong reasons and Wikipedia needs to keep track of this story. There has to be one central place everyone can refer to to find out the facts in this. But be ready to defend this from being edited by his mark9eting team (assuming he hasn't sacked them yet). This could also get interesting as the MarketingTeam knew to setup all the fake cross references that a site like Wikipedia needs for "proof". [TheManFromDelMonte]
82.23.34.30 (
talk)
15:52, 13 November 2018 (UTC)reply
...but there isn't a band, as such - it's just one guy (plus a couple of session musicians for the tour). And there's no real, actual coverage of the 'band', except for this one tour. I think that's the very definition of 'one event'.
— sparklism hey! 20:17,0 13 November 2018 (UTC)
It's irrelevant whether it's a band or a single musician posing as a band, as long as there is enough coverage, then the article would pass
WP:GNG or
WP:MUSICBIO (criteria #1 and #4). Coverage of the tour counts.
Hzh (
talk)
21:37, 13 November 2018 (UTC)reply
As the nominator of the afd, I do not have a problem with the recreation. The subject has now received a lot of coverage in RS, which was not the case several months ago. Also the article is not a promotional mess as it was before, and instead focuses on the fact that this guy attempted to astroturf a music career. It is not a band though (the other "members" appear to just be touring musicians), but RS seem to be describing it as a band so whatever.
Hrodvarsson (
talk)
01:41, 14 November 2018 (UTC)reply
This might be a good example to add to the above essay. Threatin previously created fake Wikpedia articles for himself. Now he has a real one and it shall hang around his neck like an albatross.
2.24.71.147 (
talk)
09:18, 15 November 2018 (UTC)reply
Needs to be rewritten
Since this crude ruse has been reported (ephemerally) by reputable sources, I suppose it would be very difficult to remove coverage of it from Wikipedia, but the Wikipedia article should not misrepresent it as anything but a ruse. The article's current first line, for example, is "Threatin is an American rock[4] band from Los Angeles." This is simply not true. A band by definition refers to a group of persons or things. This is just one guy. And he's not in the news because he plays rock music and made a vanity record. He's in the news because he perpetrated a fraud. This Wikipedia article needs to start with that and stay with that.
TheScotch (
talk)
06:34, 17 November 2018 (UTC)reply
He hired in musicians to play alongside him for the shows, so he's (the frontman of) a band, not a solo artist. To take a comparable example,
Milli Vanilli's article starts off "Milli Vanilli was a German R&B duo from Munich. The group was founded by ..." and only in the second paragraph of the intro does it go on to explain that they were a fraud. It doesn't start "Milli Vanilli was a scam perpetrated by ..." At least with this article it is made clear that it was a scam by midway through line 2 and already clear by the end of line 1 that its notability is for something negative.
2.24.71.147 (
talk)
12:00, 17 November 2018 (UTC)reply
Every source on the topic refers to Threatin as a band, so we should probably
stick to the sources. This isn't the only one man band to be referred to as a band,
Beartooth (who only have one member, with a few touring members, just like Threatin) and
Panic! at the Disco (who now only have one member) are both referred to as bands on their page. We could possibly reach a consensus to change it to "project" or something of that sort, similar to
Burzum or
Leviathan, or to change the page to a page just for Jered. But, to make the page simply about the incident is looked down upon, as
Wikipedia:Criticism says to "Avoid sections and articles focusing on criticisms or controversies".
Issan Sumisu (
talk)
12:03, 17 November 2018 (UTC)reply
I had been thinking the same thing myself. Too much focus on the band. The band should be a "heading". The primary focus (based on notability) should be the "scam" (if you think Beyonce didn't/doesn't do this, you are sadly mistaken).
Lazypub (
talk) —Preceding
undated comment added
12:42, 17 November 2018 (UTC)reply
It is common practice in the entertainment industry to do everything he did. Big stars. Little stars. Nobodies. All of them "enhance" their business.
In fact, it happens in most industries. Although, a bakery doesn't need a fake record label. But they do need fake reviews and paid opinions.
Lazypub (
talk)
19:37, 17 November 2018 (UTC)reply
But I will go a step further. I am also wondering if Threatin should even be the title of the article, as the band was a solo act by "Jered Threatin", but was all done by Jered Eames (the actual person).
Lazypub (
talk) —Preceding
undated comment added
12:42, 17 November 2018 (UTC)reply
The discussion
here did not establish reliability. Where there are BLP issues we need to err on the side of omission. If RS can be found for the deleted material, it can be restored. I like the site, I like the smartass commentaries, but it's still basically a blog.
MaxBrowne2 (
talk)
16:10, 24 November 2018 (UTC)reply
I don't think a "review" of its reliability from 2013 is actually gospel truth. Regardless, its research is very thorough in this particular case and is cited as a source by (among others) the
New York Times. We should restore it.
Gaia Octavia AgrippaTalk17:55, 24 November 2018 (UTC)reply
User:MaxBrowne2User:InsertcleverphrasehereUser:MaxBrowne2 Seems prudent to be aware of
WP:VOICE, to put claims by Jered Threatin in his voice not Wikipedia's. Two examples: 1. that Jered Threatin sent emails on the first day of the tour 2. that he played all the instruments on the album (if there's a different source than the BBC that has verified it rather than just repeating the claim, then we needn't put it in his voice) Widefox;
talk10:14, 21 December 2018 (UTC)reply
OK, the issue with 2. is that it has been tagged {{cn}} as seen here
[2], and two of us have put the BBC source in which verifies it, only for it to be removed multiple times. I think I'll reinsert it now and as I said, considering the claim about emails has just been edited in as verified false, I repeat putting claims by Jered Threatin really must be put in his voice. Widefox;
talk10:22, 21 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Has any source seriously disputed that he played all the instruments on his "Threatin" recordings? Given his egocentrism and lack of actual friends it's more likely than not that he did. He's mostly a bass player, but having played a few instruments myself I can tell you that once you've learned to play one instrument, it speeds up the process of learning to play another (kind of like languages). So for me his statement that he played all the instruments is credible. Anyway the word "claim" is specifically mentioned in the
words to watch guideline as likely to introduce bias.
MaxBrowne2 (
talk)
10:41, 21 December 2018 (UTC)reply
It doesn't matter what you or I think, we go by sources,
WP:V and
WP:VOICE. The BBC source doesn't question it, so I'm happy to leave as sourced to them. The email claim that's now been updated in that BBC source to be verifiably false shows the importance of VOICE. Widefox;
talk10:50, 21 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The question was, why introduce expressions of doubt to the statement that he played all the instruments? He's actually a competent musician, and most musicians are able to play more than one instrument. The claim is not extraordinary or unusual, and media outlets have not questioned it.
MaxBrowne2 (
talk)
10:57, 21 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Claims by him should be attributed to him, and as I put the source in that was my duty. It's fine as is now.
WP:VOICE is policy so trumps
WP:CLAIM (a MOS) should not be applied rigidly. While I'm here, I removed the "Category:Confidence tricksters" (as it's not in the
WP:BLP article)
[3], but I see at least
[4] uses the term.Widefox;
talk12:16, 21 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The album, which exists, therefore is not a hoax, has no other musicians credited on it. This can be backed up by AllMusic which credits Jerad.
Of course, we (as people) cannot trust anything related to him, but we (an encyclopedia) can only go by sourced content. The album states (not claims) he was the only musician. AllMusic is considered a reliable source. If you can trust that site for Beyonce items, there is no reason you cannot trust it for Threatin items. Therefore, we can safely state that Jerad performed all the instruments.
Lazypub (
talk) —Preceding
undated comment added
12:40, 21 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The album per se is a primary
WP:SPSare largely not acceptable as sources, See also
WP:USESPS. Beyonce albums are not self-published. That's the theory, in practice
WP:ABOUTSELF says this claim is fine, but
WP:PUBLISHED adds the requirement Additionally, an archived copy of the media must exist, which I assume we can ignore. Widefox;
talk14:01, 21 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Allmusic's status as a reliable source
has certainly been questioned, it's on the same level as imdb. Nevertheless implying skepticism that he played all the instruments on his recording is not NPOV, unless there is concrete evidence that he didn't. Has anyone come forward and said "hey I played drums on this track"? Not that I've seen.
MaxBrowne2 (
talk)
08:48, 23 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Hey, I loathe AllMusic. Me and you questioning its reliability is pointless, because Wikipedia has it on the list of Reliable Sources. And I thought it had even recently added AllMusic and IMDb to the list of displayed Authority Control items, but that seems to have disappeared. Either way, him playing all instruments is sourced.
Lazypub (
talk) —Preceding
undated comment added
12:56, 23 December 2018 (UTC)reply
BBC
The BBC article doesn't actually say he backdated the e-mails. This is what is written: "Perhaps the “E. Evieknowsit” messages were backdated." Perhaps meaning they don't know either. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
145.58.172.101 (
talk)
13:15, 21 December 2018 (UTC)reply