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![]() | On 20 March 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to The Phantom of the Opera. The result of the discussion was Moved The Phantom of the Opera to The Phantom of the Opera (novel) and The Phantom of the Opera (disambiguation) to The Phantom of the Opera. |
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Below text moved from Erik The Phantom of the Opera by consensus at Talk:Erik The Phantom of the Opera to be merged with this article. Please merge whatever is useful:
In Andrew Lloyd Webber's broadway musical The Phantom of the Opera, Erik is seldom referred to by his real name, simply called "The Phantom" by all. Every person in the Paris Opera fears him, including Christine Daae, the beautiful young singer whom he so desparately wants to marry. Erik appears an insane monster, filling the Opera with his maniacal laughter whenever he wishes to frighten the Opera goers and remind them of his power. Through all this, the Phantom is still able to cry at Christine's feet and beg for her love, as humble as ever. His character is an ever changing one that reflects his many years underneath the Opera as a man simply deprived of a normal human life.
-- Graham ☺ | Talk 21:56, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)
To whoever moved the "I Remember.../Stranger Than You Dreamt It" to after Magical Lasso, you are thinking of the movie and not the stage version.
Chris Glew 20:29, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
"Most stagings, including that of Hal Prince..." Is there any staging of ALW's Phantom that hasn't been directed by Prince?
Malfourmed 02:39, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
"they are often collectively known as the greatest musicals in history". While the success of the CamMack "poperettas" is inarguable and while I personally do agree that one of these shows is indeed the greatest musical in history I've removed this statement for NPOV reasons. Rodgers & Hammerstein, Stephen Sondheim and others have claims at least equally as valid to such a title.
Malfourmed 07:02, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Who thinks that all the info on songs should be removed? The original edit was awful (but re-inserted after I'd removed it) so I decided to re-write it and fix the errors and grammar in it and get feedback here. I think the info should go, really.
Chris Glew 14:20, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
There is no need for each song to have a page telling everyone what it's about. The idea of Wikipedia isn't to provide information on each song within a musical. If nobody posts here then I'll put each article on the Votes for Deletion page in a few days.
ChrisGlew 12:21, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
There's also no reason for Wikipedia NOT to have information regarding each individual song. There'd be no benefit in the individual pages nonexistence, so why even campaign for it? -- Nevah Entitar 19:16, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
If there's going to be a description of the circumstances surrounding each song (which, unless there is an unusual 'fun fact' involved, seems tedious), the same should be done for everything from Hairspray to Mamma Mia, and that seems kind of silly. Polyhymnia 07:31, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
You should add that info on the page:
ZeroJanvier 00:44, 6 December 2005 (UTC) (I'm on the french wikipédia, my english is very bad)
This article is in dire need of attention. Not only are the song descriptions totally unnecessary (and not what Wikipedia is for), the list of notable actors is far too long and half of them aren't notable. Unless there are any objections I shall remove all the un-needed stuff from it. ChrisGlew 16:14, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
(edit), OK, I have tried to fix this article up. Here's what I have done, and why.
I hope this is OK with everyone. I'm eager to see this article in shape, so I've been bold. Mademoiselle Sabina 08:19, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
The AfD for the various songs can be found here. -- MusicMaker5376 18:56, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
In the trivia section it states that pre-recorded lyrics are used during the title song due to the physical demands of the staging. I have heard the recorded music by itself and it only contains drums, organ, and 'choir' noise.
Body doubles are used during part of the scene (not difficult since the figures are cloaked and sillowetted) so the main actors are able to stand in the wings and sing easily.
I noticed that the following was deleted from the article: Although the Phantom's given name in the original Leroux novel is Erik, the character is neither referred to by this name nor listed as such at any point in the musical.
I'm putting it back, because it's an issue that has arisen before. before the article was cleaned up, the Phantom was referred to as Erik-this and Erik-that; I thought it was therefore important to clarify that he actually doesn't have this name officially in the show, and that is why it has not been used in this article. Mademoiselle Sabina 02:25, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Why is this page at The Phantom of the Opera (1986 musical) instead of just The Phantom of the Opera (musical)? I'm not aware of any other musicals of this name; in fact, The Phantom of the Opera (musical) is simply a redirect to this page. Pimlottc 05:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
"With one exception, these productions have all been "clones," i.e., they use the original staging, direction, sets and costume concepts"
This is actually not entirly true. There are two notable differences in the "clones".
The first, and more important one is during "Wandering Child". In the London production this song is actually sung as a tripplet. Roul is already on stage at the beginning of the song, hiding from Christine and the Phantom. (He has his own lyrics, something about how Christine lets herself fool by the Phantom etc.) In all the other productions the tripplett is reduced to a duet and Rouls lines are cut.
The second difference: Length of the prolog before the Overture. The original production has three items beeing sold: 1. a skull and pistol, 2. Hannibal Poster, 3. Chandelier. Most productions (including the movie) cut the skull and pistol and start with the Hannibal Poster. FreddyE 07:21, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Actually there are 2 german language versions. One is from Vienna (this is the older one), and one from Hamburg. The two versions differ greatly in their lyrics. (the only song completly the same in both versions is "The Phantom of the Opera"). The lyrics of the Vienna-Version stick more closely to the english lyrics. Today, only the Hamburg version is used. (the Vienna-Version hasn´t been used since the show closed in Vienna). FreddyE 07:21, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Am I just being stupid, or does it says in the intro that the musical opened in 1988, whereas in the main text it claims a 1986 premiere? Which is correct?
Not sure where to cite it, so I didn't change it, but the statement that all of the songs were left in and in tact is not true. I just saw the Las Vegas production at The Venetian last week and "Magical Lasso" was notably missing. So, unless they just left it out on the performance of the night of November 20, 2006 (which I highly doubt), then it should be noted that it the song was left out. ( DirtySocks85 04:18, 27 February 2007 (UTC))
Certainly an interesting point of contention, I guess that it should be left alone for now and hopefully people will look at the talk page and notice the discrepancy. The only other suggestion I have on the matter would be to add it as sort of a side note but refer back to the quote from the official website. ( DirtySocks85 04:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC))
Should this be included? I removed it because it doesn't seem necessary... Insane phantom (please comment on my Editor Review!)
Should we put a section in for stuff like the Terry Pratchett book which is a paradox of the movie, the fact that the music is supposedly stolen from Echoes by Pink Floyd etc?
"Phantom" has been performed in Australia before (c. 1990) at the Princess Theathre while it was in Melbourne, but also performed in other states too. This info is also mentioned in the Wiki for Anthony Warlow. 203.46.95.243 01:00, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I removed the sentence reading
Not many people have criticized him for this however, saying that he has not lost his creativity. citation needed
as I cannot find a source for this fact. I can find criticisms of the book, but not anyone criticising ALW for making a sequel. If anyone finds a source, go ahead and add it back in (without the irony please) with a cite. W 06:49, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I have reverted whoever put the show received "mostly negative" reviews from critics, that is incorrect. I found several references from the news and journals saying the sequel has "mixed" reviews, and it was not generally negative or generally positive. If you read a negative review, you have to tally in how many positive and neutral reviews the show received, because the show has mixed critical reception. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.251.86.15 ( talk) 20:32, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
The current introduction is far too long. If someone gets a chance, please trim it down to at least 50% of its current size. A lot of the information there belongs somewhere in the body.
Could we put more information on the production in Poland. Also, where is there any evidence of a Russian production for 2009. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.137.217.216 ( talk) 02:59, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Phantom has been running for over 21 years at Her Majesty's Theatre in London. Please vote as you think proper at this FA review: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Her Majesty's Theatre. Best regards, -- Ssilvers ( talk) 20:41, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Has there really never been a production of this musical in France? That seems unbelievable, given that it's based on a French novel. If that is true, is there some kind of legal barrier preventing it from being performed there? Funnyhat ( talk) 21:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
We like musical theatre, but it takes a long time for some shows to come here. If it ever came here, it would come to Paris. There is only one French-language recording. The French soundtrack of the movie.
My understanding is that Broadway-style musicals never really do very well in France (at least in Paris). Didn't Les Misérables close after only 7 months there? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Linguosyntactico (
talk •
contribs)
16:47, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
Many other shows have upgraded their sound, and it is not a big deal. It should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mistoffeleescats1981 ( talk • contribs) 02:28, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
I've moved several articles about the songs from this musical to the Phantom of the Opera Wiki. If anyone is interested in adding information about those songs, the pages in question can be found here, here and here.
Are you sure Michael Crawford was a Tenor/Baritone in Phantom? I can remember sixteen years earlier when he did Hello, Dolly! his range wasn't much different, and I doubt Cornelius Hackl was a tenor/baritone. I can't find refs citing this, so I don't know what to do with it.
Thanks in advance, — Mizu onna sango15 Hello! 22:57, 23 July 2008 (UTC).
The character has been played by baritones. Timothy Nolan is one example. Gerald Butler is another. Although he's usually played by tenors, he never really goes that high, only up to an A-flat. He just tends to linger around the upper part of the staff. Also, he goes down alot lower than most tenor roles. He has a number of low A-flats in Music of the Night. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.152.162.205 ( talk) 21:16, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Rick Wakeman wrote his Judas Iscariot 9 years before The Phantom of the Opera, the track can be found on Wakeman's Criminal Record, which unfortunately is out of stock. There are some similarities with Wakeman's Judas Iscariot and some of the pieces written by Webber. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.39.174.34 ( talk) 16:05, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
One of the footnotes concerning the Lloyd-Webber/Echoes plagiarism controversy has been vandalized with "who the heck does Roger Waters think he is?" or somesuch. I've not time right now to look for the correct version; so I'm letting those who edit this article know. -- 216.99.203.216 ( talk) 07:24, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
Suggestions: The article needs a critical reception section. Also, would someone please look at the IBDB entry and fill in which characters sing which songs? I would delete the orchestration section. The pit orchestration for Phantom is not unusual for a B'way/WE show and so the orchestration is not notable. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 18:43, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
Since Gaston Leroux was mentioned, I was just wondering why nothing was mentioned about the 1925 silent film that was directed by Rupert Julian, an adaptation of the Gaston Leroux novel of the same title. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_of_the_Opera_(1925_film) -- KD8CMV ( talk) 19:06, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
I am a new user, who was trying to add to the article the fact that Michael Crawford won a Tony and Olivier for this role. I used the sandbox and practiced, but when I put it in, it still came up with an error. I thought I cited the reference correctly, but I guess not. Could someone tell me what I did wrong and possibly correct it? I read the guidelines, but I must be still confused. Are we allowed to cite Wikipedia itself as a source? I have plenty of other sources for the fact, but I figured it would be the easiest to verify. Any help is appreciated. Darknightqueen ( talk) 03:33, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Merge in The Phantom of the Opera (current) There is little point for such a small page. It could easily be a section in the main article Ronhjones (Talk) 21:55, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I was redirected from my Wishing you were somehow here again search to this article. I'm thinking about writing an article just for that song. What do you guys think? Should I or should I not? Bejinhan Talk 06:27, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Have been looking carefully at this article in the context of a request for GA nomination of Phantom of the Opera (2004 film). It appears to me that this article provides a lot more detail than the one on the film and therefore deserves at least a class B. Ipigott ( talk) 15:47, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Hello, I noticed the article seems to contradict itself with regard to Lerner's contribution. It says in the intro he wrote Masquerade, then under Development it says none of his contributions remained in the show. Here and in other places I have seen him given credit for Masquerade, but he is not officially credited, only Hart and Stilgoe are listed as lyricists. If he did contribute to Masquerade, why wouldn't he be credited as one of the lyricists? It's a curious inconsistency, at least. Dagurasum ( talk) 21:41, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
The article states (without attribution) that some of the lyrics were written by "a mysterious author known only as S. Simmons." Sez who? I can't find any corroboration of this anywhere, and there is no mention of anyone by that name on my old vinyl Original Cast album. In fact, there seems to be no mention of an "S. Simmons" anywhere, except on Web postings that have plagiarized this article verbatim. Is it possible some wise ass added it as a prank, and nobody caught it? Does/did such a person even exist? Even if he/she did, do we have any info to support a contribution to this show's creation? Unless somebody can find a credible source to validate this entry, I vote for deleting it. DoctorJoeE ( talk) 19:38, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Now it says Michael Crawford played "Erik" in the original show. He played "The Phantom" it NEVER mentions his name being Erik in this version, so his name is NOT Erik in this version. This is about Andrew Lloyd Webber's play and he intentionally did NOT give him a name. He could have EASILY added it in (during madame Giry's back story for example) but he chose not to and therefore it should NOT be listed as the characters name under who played the part. I would remove it myself but I don't know how to keep it linked to that article while saying simply "The Phantom" but it needs to be changed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hsox05 ( talk • contribs) 19:06, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
It does have spoken dialogue. The opening parts aren't even sung. J.J. Bustamante ( talk) 04:07, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
Any way to mention that this song closely resembles the title song a lot too? ("In sleep he sang to me...") ironmagma ( talk) 19:03, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
There are one or two details which suggest Leroux might have had some real singers of the 1890s in mind - Emma Calvet, in particular, who as a soubrette was nothing remarkable until she spent 6 months trainig at the hands of Domenico Mustafà, the last of the Vatican Castrati. Her roles are very close to those portrayed, moreover - Marguerite from Gounod's Faust and David's Lalla-Roukh are relevant in The Phantom. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.129.19.178 ( talk) 20:57, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
I'm concerned about the section on the 25th anniversary performance in October, for several reasons:
I don't think it belongs in the article until after it happens (and perhaps not even then) -- and I suggest we remove it. DoctorJoeE ( talk) 22:23, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
i believe this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygzhz1GweN4 plagiarises phantom, but i'm having trouble finding a reliable source
anyone help -- Mongreilf ( talk) 18:18, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Haha, I noticed that too.... they definitely have parts that sound very similar...
108.52.113.175 (
talk)
18:22, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
This isn't the most earthshaking issue in the world -- but I'd love to know if anyone has the answer:
The show, as we all know, begins at the end -- and Raoul is introduced as "the elderly Vicomte de Chagny." Why is he still a Viscount? If he is elderly, he should be the Count by now, unless his father is still alive, which seems unlikely, and no reference to his father is made anywhere in the musical, movie, or book, AFAIK.
Occam's Razor dictates that this just be written off as a plotting error -- but is there another explanation? Has this ever come up for discussion before? Just askin', DoctorJoeE ( talk) 20:42, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
There is another explanation. It is a French noble, not a British peer! The father is a viscount, vicomte, not an earl or count. And although not very common, there are families that have been granted the right for the children to bear the same title and rank of the father, while him being alive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.176.68.210 ( talk) 21:06, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Frankly, I find the sources given for the sentence "In 1987, the heirs of Giacomo Puccini charged in a lawsuit that the climactic phrase in "Music of the Night" closely resembled a similar phrase in the sequence "Quello che tacete" from Puccini's opera Girl of the Golden West.[40] The litigation was settled out of court for an undisclosed amount.[41][42]" completely unconvincing.
No. 40 ( http://sfist.com/2010/06/25/hear_the_opera_andrew_lloyd_webber.php) is a link to a blog post that notes the similarities between the melody of one section of Music of the Night with one section of the melody of Puccinni's Quello Che Tacete from The Girl of the Golden West. The only source it gives is a news article which has long since disappeared from the web but appears to have merely been publicity for a local production of Girl of the Golden West. The information likely came from this Wikipedia page!
No. 41 ( http://www.opera-australia.org.au/scripts/nc.dll?OPRA:STANDARD:0:pc=PC_90885) is a dead link - perhaps to program notes at the Opera Australia website? Whatever it was, it was far from a primary source.
No 42 ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/theater/bckgrnd/lloydwebber.htm) is merely from a rather dismissive introduction to an interview with Lloyd Webber. The only thing relevant is the sentence "He is, they huff, just a pint-size Puccini, and not above borrowing the occasional Puccini tune, either.". This is certainly any source for the sentence in this article.
So where did the 1987 date come from? Where did the information that it was settled out of court come from? I believe that this is all rumour, one that has persisted in this article long enough. It is doubtful and harmful so I have removed it. Registeringjusttoconcealmyip ( talk) 09:02, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
There is also a copy right claim by Rick Wakeman according to the German Wikipedia page on him ( https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Wakeman). It says that the epic opening has been taken from his song Judas Iscariot which does sound very similar indead. I recommend that the editors of this article have a closer look at these claims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.192.25.13 ( talk) 22:59, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
Hi,
I'm new to EN, not to WP, though. I did change a fact on the front page, gave some information on it, and where I found the information. It got reverted stating this:
Undid revision 465157344 by T3rminat0r (talk): If you wish to contest this change, please do so on the talk page.
And yea, I'd like to contest that, reverting without any proper reason is plain rude, spam and vandalism aside. Anyone mind giving any REASON for that revert? -- T3rminat0r ( talk) 19:01, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
I question whether the lead line about Phantom of the Opera being an Operetta is correct, to use ourselves as a source, " Operetta is a genre of light opera, light in terms both of music and subject matter. It is also closely related, in English-language works, to forms of musical theatre". As anyone who has seen any adaptation knows, Phantom far better fits the definition of Opera than Operetta. I think that the line should be changed to say that Phantom of the Opera is an Opera but didn't want to act unilaterally. Cat-five - talk 08:52, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
The text in the article (under Synopsis, Prologue) says the prologue takes place in 1911. The year even has a non-web citation: "Jacqueline Martin (1995) "Understanding theatre: performance analysis in theory and practice". p.143. Almqvist & Wiksell, 1995"
This citation doesn't exist (at least I can't find it) and was edited in on 8/17/11 to replace a dead link by MusoForde, who was a sock puppet of LisaSandford who has been blocked indefinitely. I normally would have inserted a query on MusoForde's talk page, inquiring about her reference. In this case, I can't.
I noticed that in the 25th anniversery concert the prologue occurs in 1905. I looked and have found several sources that also say it took place in 1905 in the original play. (The prologue does occur in 1911 in the Las Vegas production and 1919 in the film. Maybe RUG uses the year to track different versions of Phantom.) I therefore have changed it to 1905, replacing the citation. -- RoyGoldsmith ( talk) 11:54, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
In the synopsis, the play's setting is referred to as the Paris Opéra. This is wrong. In the first place, the Paris Opéra is the company that stages the operas, not the building ( Palais Garnier) in which they are staged. More important, the play always refers to its setting as the Opera Populaire. (Perhaps Lloyd Webber wanted to avoid any copyright problems with the Paris Opéra.) Also this theatre (from what we can tell) specializes in light opera or operettas ("popular operas"?), not classical opera. Even the book by Leroux refers to the locale as simply "the Opéra".
Shouldn't we substitute something like "the fictionalized Opera Populaire" or "the fictionalized Opera Populaire (based on the Paris Opéra)", rather than simply the wikilinked Paris Opéra, both here and in the article about the film? Your comments? -- RoyGoldsmith ( talk) 18:41, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Given that the Canadian Production ran 10 years straight, made a music video and released its on cast Album, should it be entitled to be listed as a major production under the major productions cast section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.55.182 ( talk) 04:40, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
Needs one. Pretty much the most important part of the article to anyone not familiar with the subject matter (which is not me by the way - love this musical :D) is missing.-- Coin945 ( talk) 14:13, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
I've added a new paragraph about the Broadway critical reception in the section Broadway. Not brave enough to create a new section though :( Hope this helps! Ethkurand ( talk) 06:43, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi, just highlighting that if the yellow tagged issue with the lack of references in the Other productions section can be resolved, this article would be eligible for the selected anniversaries on October 9, which features on the main page. Whizz40 ( talk) 20:18, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
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Can someone remove the 2018 USA tour listed in the production section on the info box? The tour is the 25th anniversary version from 2013 and not a new one. Kay girl 97 ( talk) 18:52, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
Why has this page been totally butchered recently?
Needs to have a "Productions" section immediately restored with all productions (major and international) placed in one section under the synopsis and Cast.
The way it looks now is fucken terrible, everything is all over the damn place. Synopsis and musical numbers should always be top section, followed by Cast Lists, followed by Development History followed by Production history, followed by Soundtrack and Film Adaptation information, followed by everything else... This was totally wrecked. Let's fix it back up guys.
Colliric ( talk) 06:00, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
The book ... "which also contributed with additional lyrics" -- what is that suppose do mean? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.225.32.131 ( talk • contribs)
I noticed this article includes the original casts from places other than Broadway and the West End. Does this mean pages for other musicals should include these? I was on another musical's talk page where someone brought up including the original Australian cast, then told no because it was not Broadway or West End. RaCJ1325 ( talk) 23:26, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved The Phantom of the Opera to The Phantom of the Opera (novel) and The Phantom of the Opera (disambiguation) to The Phantom of the Opera. There is clear opposition for removing the parenthetical disambiguator from the musical, and clear support for adding the disambiguator for the novel and moving the DAB page to the undisambiguated title. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Skarmory (talk • contribs) 18:11, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
– While the novel inspired the musical and came first, it has generally around 2-to-1 page viewership compared to the novel. It seems that it is generally the WP:PTOPIC Tartar Torte 19:44, 20 March 2023 (UTC)