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Archive 1 |
I would like to rename this page "Terminology of homosexuality" and integrate into it much of the material on etymology and usage from the main Homosexuality page. Comments? Haiduc 04:44, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I forget what the original title was, but it was even worse. On the other hand, it goes against wikipedia practice to load down a main article with a great deal of detail, and material which gets too extensive is spun off routinely into its own article. Entire chapters could be written on this topic, making the main Homosexuality page more than top-heavy. Haiduc 00:37, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
"The use of the word homosexual in describing individuals and same-sex relationships may also be inaccurate."
This is stated several times in this article and I honestly do not get it. The word "homosexual" means "of the same sex," so how is it not the same as "individuals and same-sex relationships?" What is meant by this? -- 208.54.94.81 14:38, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
The opening para says:
The first known appearance of the term homosexual in print is found in an anonymous 1869 German pamphlet 143 des Preussischen Strafgesetzbuchs und seine Aufrechterhaltung als 152 des Entwurfs eines Strafgesetzbuchs für den Norddeutschen Bund ("Paragraph 143 of the Prussian Penal Code and Its Maintenance as Paragraph 152 of the Draft of a Penal Code for the North German Confederation") written by Karl-Maria Kertbeny.
(my emphasis)
Which is it? -- Skud 04:51, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
This article uses terminology that hasn't been in widespread use in the gay community for ages, and tries to pass it off as current. Further, associating pederasty with homosexuality is offensive. Paedophilia has nothing in common with the GLBT community, and it never has, except in the twisted imaginations of those who look for an argument to base their irrational hatred upon. All in all, this article fails to inform, as the information it gives is outdated and/or inaccurate. This page should be deleted or cleaned up and renamed " Archaic terms from the gay lexicon that are no longer in use" Wandering Star 03:31, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
And that word is "sexual orientation"! This is a term of very recent coinage, which replaced "sexual preference" in the usage of activists for ideological reasons, but it is treated everywhere on wiki as if it is a neutral, dictionary term that has always existed! A section on "sexual orientation" that details the history of the term is badly needed!
Does anybody know the exact origin of "homogenital"? It's used primarily by anti-gay Catholics, but also by some protestant groups. I suspect it was in some Catholic encyclicals in the 70s, because a FAQ on church doctrine by DignityUSA uses the word in responding to the official church position. But that's all I know for sure. Any clues? Thanks. DanB DanD 21:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't think this term was a homosexual term. It refers to sexual stimulation through rubbing, which can be done to women or men.-- Syd Henderson 05:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Should Same gender loving be merged to this article? It's a bit more than a dictionary definition, but seems short enough to fit here until it expands further. —Cel ithemis 10:55, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
The section "Homosexuality" in Terminology of homosexuality has a {{ main}} that points to Homosexuality, and the Homosexuality article has a {{ main}} which points to Terminology of homosexuality... I'm not sure how this should be resolved. - Ta bu shi da yu 04:04, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
The term "queer" isn't a negative word anymore, and it can be used in a formal context. It can still be used in a negative sense, but it's being endorsed these days as an acceptable umbrella term. Does anyone think it should stay in the pejorative list? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lambyte ( talk • contribs) 06:56, 24 February 2007 (UTC).
I am not a native speaker of German, but I think that most people do not find a relationship between schwül (most commonly used to describe hot and humid weather) and schwul (gay). There may be an etymological link but, I think, there is not a link in modern usage. Thehalfone 12:35, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
We have no sources for the slang terms. If we don't find some soon I propose we remove the lists. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:58, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Is there any reason these should be seen as reliable sources? P4k 04:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
I came across this article after searching and searching for something like it. I did not find it where I expected and hence I think this could be somewhat of a problem. I realize that the title of the page has changed, but the root of the problem might be found from such realizations or factors unto its development. It seems to me that much of this page was developed along the lines of common terms and phrases, whereas things like history, etymology and "labeling theory" and/or "deviancy theory" were added in as secondary interests, if at all. I would suggest start splitting this topic in two directions on what would be possibly two topic pages. I would keep this page, certainly, but drive it more towards the direction where it seems to be going and is most successful: common terms, phrases, slurs and so on. These seem to be words and concepts that are used in everyday language and conversation, which are useful for basic education, people learning English as a second language, or dare I say, people who want to teach or learn how to be "politically correct" or non-offensive. None of that is bad, but that is what we are doing here, it seems. The second topic or direction that I would like to see developed, is the ideas of etymology, history and the overall theoretical concepts dealing with labeling, deviancy and the more current phenomenon of self-concept and reclamation. These ideas are much more academic, but I have found like ideas on other pages already. In fact, it is where I was looking for this topic or idea, but was struggling to find it. As such, I was surprised to finally come across the topic for discussion, but found that for all its strengths, it seems somewhat lacking in some areas and approaches. Finally, I think discussion on other languages should only be included as they influence the English language. I would otherwise encourage the development of such discussions on other wikipedia topic pages, providing "see also" links to those topics from here. I think it would be better if this and like pages are more concise; as besides, this is not inclusive of all available languages and their slur words as seen on wikipedia. It currently includes some languages and oddly excludes others; therefore, it should include all that are known or none at all. I have found such terms and/or slur words on other topic pages that are not listed here, although the authors of this page have neglected to look them up. Foremost, why be redundant here on this topic page, when it is already being covered by the like topic "List of terms for gay in different languages". I can also find similar pages for each language, like Japanese, Spanish, Italian slur words and sexual phrases, etc. 69.109.208.103 ( talk) 21:43, 29 January 2008 (UTC) DjZ
A lot of the citations on this page need to be consolidated, and not separate cites for the same reference. — pd_THOR | =/\= | 05:32, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone have any information on the etymology of the term Kaliardá (Καλιαρντά)? A similar surname (Καλιαρντάς) exists in the area around Melissourgoi but is this connected? My extent of knowledge on the subject is this:
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The sections for all of the foreign languages are unsourced. Since this isn't a dictionary, I'm not sure why foreign terms are even included. In any case, whatever is here need to be verifiable. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 01:42, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
The lead of the article does not specify what the inclusion criteria of the terminology list itself should be. In order to meet the guidance of WP:Lists, the section Terminology of homosexuality/Archive 1#Slang or pejorative terms needs to have its own lead section unambiguously explaining what criteria apply for inclusion. At the moment terms are being rejected if not in widespread usage (such as when the only sources put forward are one-off TV episodes) and adding clear criteria would avoid most argument. I suggest that inclusion should be on the basis of being available in published sources. With the prevalence of slang dictionaries for modern languages this should not be impossible and may eventually lead to the removal of some foreign language terms where there is no substantive source.— Ash ( talk) 22:49, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Gynephilia cannot be a correct word. The root is 'gynaec-' or 'gynec-' (American spelling) as found in gynaecology. It should be 'gynaecophilia'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.88.233 ( talk) 09:23, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Re Footnote #75 regarding the earliest unambiguous use of "gay" as a synonym for "homosexual": In the 1938 movie "Bringing up Baby" the character played by actor Cary Grant says, when caught by another man wearing female attire, "I've suddenly gone gay," or words to to that effect; but he definitely used the word "gay." I just saw the film tonight (Saturday 18 June 2011) on Turner Classic Movies. It seems that this usage of "gay" predates the 1940s by at least a few years. Gdthayer ( talk) 02:17, 19 June 2011 (UTC) Edited: Substitute "Footnote" for "Note" Gdthayer ( talk) 02:22, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
I was working on a disambiguation page at Homosexual behavior, and I thought I was doing well, but someone reduced it to a redirect (to the first term listed below):
I'm looking for an English word which encompasses male-male sexual activity and female-female sexual activity. Since I understand that Homosexuality is much more than just 'getting off' together, what term can we use for the sex part? --
Uncle Ed (
talk)
17:53, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
How about Homosexual sex acts (empty page) or Homosexual sex act (also an empty page) per this section heading: Anti-LGBT_rhetoric#Homosexual_sex_acts_as_sin? I'm wondering if the terminological problem has to do with "baggage" stemming from anti-LGB advocacy.
In the straight world, the concept of sexual activity between members of the opposite sex does appear to be an discrete element. That is, "sex" can be distinguished from "love". Such a distinction in fact aids writers who wish to describe how sex and love relate, or to describe other aspects such as attraction and romance; the latter emphasizes emotion over libido.
I haven't gotten any replies, but I don't take this as a lack of interest. I'll go ahead and start making some (cautious) edits to the article, but I trust that those who are watching will revert or fix any errors I make. -- Uncle Ed ( talk) 17:36, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
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The history section needs some reorganization to have some sort of natural sequence, perhaps by theme, or more likely, chronological. It also needs some sort of narrative to show how they're connected (if they are). In addition, there are several terms occupying entire sections that don't belong in the article that I plan to start boldly removing. Conversely, there are others, like invert, that are important, were once used universally in academia and literature, that get barely any mention at all. Mathglot ( talk) 05:55, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
I translate the essence of the thing: a tropism of the soul [a] towards men (instead of towards women), so I say, taking advantage of commonly used, modern, scholarly Greek forms: the androtropic man, the androtrope, androtropy, the androtropism of men. As far as a designation for lesbians, I say: a gynecotropic female, the gynecotrope, the gynecotropism of women.
Notes
The lead is in need of some significant reorg and tightening up. For starters, I've redone the first sentence due to some outright mistaken assumptions. Let's recall that WP:LEAD says that the lead should identify the topic and summarize the body of the article with appropriate weight. It goes on to say that the lead should identify the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points, including any prominent controversies. That's not what the lead is now; much of it (currently four paragraphs) sounds like somebody riffing on their personal recollections, or dumping out random slang terms ("that way", "a bit funny", "on the bus", "batting for the other team", "a friend of Dorothy") not one of which is discussed in the body of the article; neither is there any discussion of whether these are "euphemisms" (as claimed) or slurs.
Much of the material currently in the lead doesn't belong there; that includes any material that is not already covered in greater detail in the body of the article. I plan to start moving material out of the lead, to an appropriate section in the body (if there is one), or create a new section for it, if there isn't. Anything moved down, will be summarized by a brief comment in the lead, if need be, according to its importance and due weight.
Once that is complete, that will probably leave a lead that is much shorter, and lacking completeness. In a second phase of the re-org, the lead will probably need to be expanded, to summarize portions of the body that currently aren't covered at all in the lead. But first things first: in phase one, I'll be moving lots of material out of the lead to the appropriate section, with little or no change to the actual wording, except to ensure smooth segues so it fits into the surrounding text. I welcome any comments or assistance. Mathglot ( talk) 05:36, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
First sentence: Wanted to offer further explanation about this change to the lead, which removed the article title and the bolding from the first sentence. The old lead sentence was awkward, constrained as it was with the attempt to force the article title into the sentence as its subject:
The terminology of homosexuality has gone through many changes since the emergence of the first terms in the mid-19th century.
However, since the article title is descriptive, per MOS:FIRST the title itself does not need to appear verbatim in the first sentence; and per MOS:TITLEABSENTBOLD, it should not be bolded in that case. In its current incarnation, we have this:
Terms used to describe homosexuality have gone through many changes since the emergence of the first terms in the mid-19th century.
I hope you agree that it flows better and reads more naturally this way. (I wouldn't be opposed to a completely different formulation, such as, "Many different terms have been used or proposed to describe homosexuality, since the emergence of the first terms in the mid-19th century."; I find that reads even better, but I was trying to make minimal changes at this point, until we get some feedback.) Mathglot ( talk) 07:47, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. No consensus for proposed or any of the alterative titles, though current title not loved. Further discussion and subsequent new proposals are welcome. ( non-admin closure) В²C ☎ 17:42, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
Terminology of homosexuality → Terminology for homosexuality – Ethanpet113 ( talk) 20:51, 8 January 2019 (UTC) This article covers terminology for referring to homosexuals not terminology used by ("of") homosexuals. Ethanpet113 ( talk) 20:51, 8 January 2019 (UTC)--Relisted. – Ammarpad ( talk) 05:39, 16 January 2019 (UTC)