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Welcome to the Temple of Set Talk page. Please feel free to make comments here concerning improving the quality of the Temple of Set article. Thank you. User:Balanone 07:02, 11 November 2001
Since the concept of "xeper" is so central to the Temple, do you think you could get permission from Mr. Webb to use a short excerpt from one of his books, as an entry for "xeper"? Legally of course someone could use a very short quote under Fair Use, but it would be better if the entry could include that "published with permission..." clause. Perhaps the Egyptian hieroglyph would also be appropriate here? RL Barrett 21:21 May 6, 2003 (UTC)
Hathor: this is the only place I've seen the term "Setianic"... would it be more accurate to just use the term "Setian"? I seem to remember that "Setian" is a noun which can also be used as an adjective to describe things (other than members or the ToS) that members of the TOS would find affinity with. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.12.22.237 ( talk • contribs) 03:13, 6 November 2004
This material is from the article List of purported cults, which we are paring down to a pure list. Editors here can best evaluate its statements and decide how to integrate it into this article. Thanks, - Willmcw 10:55, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)
- "More trivially, they are your typical mail-order cult in any number of ways. They require large amounts of participation on the parts of their members, to the extent that participation in the group becomes a central organizing principle in their lives. They sponsor getaway vacation/conventions which all members are required to attend. They have strict hierarchy, a charismatic leader and apocalyptic prophecy (the "Gifted of Set") are supposed to survive an upcoming apocalypse, according to their Seminal document "The Book of Coming Forth By Night" - though lately they have been making noises that this is only a metaphorical apocalypse (perhaps to avoid legal intervention in the wake of other post apocalytics), such as the Branch Davidians and the Solar Temple mass suicides, and the Aum nerve gas attacks; there was literal belief in this passage as prophecy in the not-too distant past. They have a number of secret documents which one must have certain levels of "attainment" to read; much like the OT grade documents of Scientology. They have all manner of bizarre theories about atlantis, ancient astronauts, "Tesla Physics," a theory of creationism, holocaust revisionism, and so on..."
"Many Archeologists and experts in ancient Hamo-Semitic languages, as well as critics of the Temple of Set, assert that if an ancient Egyptian deity were to communicate an ancient Egyptian word, that word would have at least been correctly pronounced by the deity in question as "Khe-per"."
Citations? This paragraph needs them badly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.211.138.121 ( talk • contribs) 20:47, 26 June 2005
Jan 2006: One of the edits I made this weekend was to remove: "In 1975 Aquino made the claim that the Egyptian god Set communicated the word Xeper to him under the pronunciation of "Kheffer", though the majority of Egyptologists and experts in ancient Hamo/Semitic languages agree that the word Xeper is correctly pronounced as "Khepper" ( with a hard "P" sound ), which indicates the probability that Aquino found the word Xeper in a book written by E. A. Wallis Budge, an Egyptologist known to have had a flawed grasp and understanding of ancient Egyptian language and grammar, further placing Aquino's claims as being in communication with an ancient Egyptian Deity into question."
Though I do use the "Kheffer" pronounciation rather than "Khepper", I have no great desire to see it pronounced either way -- both are fine, and I removed the statement largely because of the discussion above. (I also disagree with the conclusion of the statement, but that's a different discussion.)
The contributor from 86.142.15.240 who reinserted this statement has not participated in this discussion. How do we resolve the question of removal/inclusion of this statement? Balanone 02:56, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
There is actually some evidence for how "xpr" was pronounced thanks to texts from Ptolemaic Egypt. See Hans Dieter Betz's _The Greek Magical Papyri in Translation, Including the Demotic Spells_, published 1997 by the University of Chicago Press, ISBN 0226044475. Three times the name CHPHYRIS appears in these papyri, which were found in Thebes, and in all three cases Betz adds a footnote that this is the scarab Khepri. Such phonetic transcriptions using the Greek _phi_ are not uncommon: Plutarch and other Greeks writers apparently heard (and we moderns still use) "kyphi" as the name for an Egyptian incense whose hieroglypic name is "kpt".
"Hamo-Semitic" is a term that is strongly depreciated (see "Hamitic Myth" under Hamitic). The term used by academics is "Afro-Asiatic" (see http://www.ethnologue.com/ as well as Afro-Asiatic languages). Given that and the lack of any citation for the "Egyptologists and experts in ancient Hamo/Semitic languages" claim, as well as the evidence from Betz, the edit seems weak, and I'd agree with Willmcw that it should be removed. OwarePlayer 13:35, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
--> Revision as of 08:57, 23 January 2006, added: The term came about in 1975, when Aquino made the claim that the Egyptian god Set 'communicated' the word Xeper to him, during a working of high black magic, as it is termed within TOS.
Not quite -- the term predated Michael Aquino's use by several thousand years. However, the specific use by the Temple as a directive or incentive very possibly does not match the common uses in ancient Egypt. There should be a better way to phrase the addition to state this.
Of course, I thought everyone knew that.
The paragraph explains the TOS interpretation of the term, then states that the word in TOS context was orignally transmitted to M.Aquino by Set himself. Though of course, D.Webb all reinterpreted the term as well. I suppose the relevence of post-modernism to the interpretation of such terms, would be beyond the scope of the article?
The contributer wrote "as it is termed within TOS". Yet search of Aquino's on-line draft memoirs as well as the Temple of Set web site yields no reference to "high black magic". There are, however, Setian references to this founding 'revelation' as the "Santa Barbara Working" or the "North Solstice X Working" (PDF; see also references to the "North Solstice" in quotes from the Setian Crystal Tablet floating around the Internet). I've edited the passage to use the latter term, since the Crystal Tablet quotes imply it is more-or-less standard usage. I've further replaced the link to Webb's "Xeper" essay (being on the organization's web site, it presumably mirrors recent Setian thought on the matter?) and added a pointer to Aquino's memoirs on his "Xeper" experience. -- OwarePlayer 04:22, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
Just a short idea to this theme: I'm german. In the german language the word "Kaefer" means "beetle". So maybe - especially because of the archeological work of the "Deutsche Orient-Gesellschaft" (DOG) :-) who discovered for example the Nofretete-bust - the Xeper-symbol was named simply after the animal it showed: the beetle. So I think, it might be spelled as " K h e f f e r ". Anonymus, 5.11.2006
I've amended some phrases in this article to fall in line with NPOV. Most are minor adjustments such as changing "The Temple of Set was founded in 1975 by Michael Aquino who was charged with child molestation, and a group of other members who left the Church of Satan organization because of disagreements with its administration and philosophy." to the more accurate "The Temple of Set was founded in 1975 by Michael Aquino (who was charged with child molestation though the charges were dropped), and a group of other members who left the Church of Satan organization because of disagreements with its administration and philosophy." Other changes are visible in the page's history. - Reason. 25 October 2005
Jan 2005: Recent edit added the clause, "... though [it] is largly an American based organisation." Question: How does one determine whether an oragnization is largely a [whatever geographic] based organization? The majority of Setians are Americans, but the majority of Catholics are South American -- does that make the Roman Catholic Church largely South American? Or because its offices are in Rome, does that make it a largely Italian organization? Members of the Board of Directors have served from Europe, conclaves (conventions) have been held in Europe, gatherings on at least four continents. Assuming (for the sake of this question) that the Temple of Set either is or someday will be an international organization, at what point does one stop trying to claim "though [it] is largly an American based organisation"? Balanone 03:04, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Put simply, the majority of individuals whom join TOS are Americian, therefore TOS membership is largley made up of Americans. Maybe, in the future this statement should be changed, though in the present, the majority of members live in or are of american descent.
I have replaced 'more than half' to 'mostly' within the USA, as 'more than half' is missleading and evasive. One might conclude that every third year, it takes place outside of the USA, which is simply not the case.
Response: Our hope has been to hold a Conclave outside the USA approximately every 3rd year, and we've come close to meeting that goal, with multiple Conclaves held so far in England (London) and Germany (Munich and Berlin). We unfortunately had to cancel two additional scheduled Conclaves (one in Germany and one in Sweden), and that is why we haven't hit our 1/3 non-US goal. Balanone 05:43, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Again, maybe in the future it should change, though as far as I know the 'yearly' conclave has only taken place outside of the USA two or three times in the last decade. While hopes and good intentions are well intended, as within politics, they should not be used as an excuse to distort information.
I would also bring it to your attention, that the accuracy of your information may be taken more seriously as a representative of TOS, if the information on your website was accurate. According to that, D.Webb is still high priest? 3rd March 2006
17th August 2006: Removed the Balanone homepage link, as is badly out of date and does not seem to have been updated for a number of years.
Removed two links that are avalible through the link to TOS main website; the addition of links to members homepages and information that can be found from the main link, is not relevent to information on TOS and seems to be self promotion by TOS members.
Removed link that is avalible through the main TOS website; again the addition of links to members homepages and information that can be found from the main link, is not relevent to information on TOS and seems to be self promotion by TOS members. (5th March 2007)
Removed link avalible through TOS website; again the addition of links to members homepages and information that can be found from the main link, is not relevent to information on TOS and seems to be self promotion by TOS members. (8th April 2007)
Removed link avalible through TOS website; again the addition of links to members homepages and information that can be found from the main link, is not relevent to information on TOS and seems to be self promotion by TOS members. (17th April 2007)
In my edit last weekend, I added the statement, "All officers and workers within the Temple of Set are volunteers. All officers are selected from within the Priesthood." A contributor from 86.142.15.240 added ", though recieve some payment", which is very false. As is appropriate in volunteer and non-profit organizations, the volunteers will receive reimbursement for expenses encurred in service to the organization, but no volunteer within the Temple of Set receives any payment in excess of those expenses. Any member of the Priesthood has full access to the Temple's books, on request, and can verify this (as has been verified to me personally). I am therefore reverting that addition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Balanone ( talk • contribs) 02:20, 11 January 2006
I note that someone deleted the statement that Dr. Michael Aquino is not an officer of the organization. I added it back in, since he is not an officer. I see that the Wikipedia page on him suggests he is current High Priest. He is not; his latest term of office in that position ended a while ago. This can be verified if needed by the Executive Director. Balanone 06:29, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Removing Vitalyb's Satanism template, added by him Jan 6 2007. It seems to be the consensus here that the Temple of Set no longer has anything significant to do with modern Satanism, and therefore the Template was removed without complaint by Darkahn on Nov 30 2006. Unless Vitalyb can suggest good reason for the template to be used here, it should be left off. Balanone 22:55, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Edited out the reference to the current chairman of the council of nine, this information is only relevent to the internal bureaucratic workings of the temple. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.128.155.90 ( talk) 11:29, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Like most good Christians put a few Satanists together and they tend to fight each other like ferrets in a sack. Surely this aspect of the Temple of Set should be mentioned? its long and tiring war with the Church of Satan can be a source of fascination and much humour.
Some Setian philosophy is particularly silly, they unify Satan and Set, but with little or no justification. Researching this area myself I found that Satan probably does have a relationship with the Egyptian gods - except that Satan looks very similar to Horus rather than Set, and indeed the great pyramid has several names that connect it directly to Lucifer. (His name means 'bearer of the Light' while its name means 'the Light', it wouldn't be a great stretch for that to actually be 'bearer of the Light' instead). Moreover the logic of the situation suggests it quite strongly - the Jews had a habit of bundling their enemies Gods in as demons - eg Baal and Belial, and they certainly didn't see the Egyptians or their Gods as great friends. If Jehovah supposedly caused the Egyptian plagues then surely that would make him a good candidate for being linked with Set wouldn't it?.
Lucien86 (
talk)
03:49, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
No horus was jesus aka moses aka the good guy. Set was the badguy. The hidden secret truth is that its all nonsense and nice guys finish last so you might as well lie cheat and steal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.106.206.134 ( talk) 00:29, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
This article needs extensive work. It presently reads like a manifesto for the Temple with a superious comment added here and there by the Temple's detractors. It is also riddled with loaded words. I suggest a complete revision. FenrirRising ( talk) 11:10, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
As per above request for quality of article consideration, I have recently made a number of edits to this page which, I hope, leave it reading less like something from an occult-fanzine. Before reverting, please raise specifics here if you feel they do not contribute to the article and we can reach a consensus that accounts for the most up to date and objective information concerning the Temple. I have removed the information relating to James Fitzsimmons as new High Priest as there is not yet a public confirmation of this. However, he is the new High Priest! Apex156 ( talk) 12:03, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
I understand. However, if information is relating to the Temple's self-statement and if information from third party sources is based on that, then it meets objectivity criteria. For example, it is impossible to write about the degree structure without using the Temple as a reliable source of information about itself. On the other hand, if there are reputable, third party sources contradicting that information (for example if a peer-reviewed scholarly article describes ToS as "theistic Satanists") or criticizing the Temple, etc. then I would suggest that both pieces of information are added with the fact that they conflict pointed out in the text. Apex156 ( talk) 22:05, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
The Controversy section of the article is rather sparse, and there have been plenty of accusations, from it being a cult, to it's founder and leader being accused of sexually abusing children and if nobody else expands it in the next few days, I'll do it.
Source of those accusations: [redacted] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bumblebritches57 ( talk • contribs) 08:50, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: J Milburn ( talk · contribs) 18:27, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
Very interesting. Happy to offer a review.
Josh Milburn (
talk)
18:27, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
I want to have a good look at the sources and images, but that's enough for now. My first impression is that this is a strong article which I will almost certainly be promoting soon. Josh Milburn ( talk) 19:25, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
I think that I have dealt with all of the issues raised, Josh. Do let me know if there is anything else. Moreover, thank you very much for taking the time to give this article a read through and for producing the review in the first place. Midnightblueowl ( talk) 19:34, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
Ok, looking at sources...
Other than that, nothing. The sources are all appropriately scholarly. If I'm being too picky...
Looking at images... No concerns. I'll just want a last look at the prose before I promote. I'll try to get to that tomorrow. Josh Milburn ( talk) 04:25, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
Some small bits from a second look-through (also note my replies above):
In case you're interested, I suspect Aquino is notable; Fontaine definitely is, and we already have an article about one of her books. The article's looking great, and I'm sure I'll be promoting soon. Josh Milburn ( talk) 13:58, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
Ok, I'm going to go ahead and promote at this time. I still think the history section needs a bit more about post-2000 happenings, but I'll leave that hanging. This is a great article, and might, in the future, have a good chance at FAC. Josh Milburn ( talk) 23:13, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
Currently a search for "Michael A. Aquino" redirects to this article. Is there any reason why he doesn't have his own article? Michael Aquino is a former US military officer and former member of LaVey's Church of Satan; he is of interest as an individual, besides his connection to the Temple of Set. Can we create an article just for him? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MDCCLXXVI ( talk • contribs) 01:00, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, MW131tester ( talk) 18:50, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
@ Midnightblueowl:, @ J Milburn:, I've written up a few research notes at Talk:Michael A. Aquino. I haven't been able to find a detailed biographical sketch anywhere about Aquino himself; most of what's out there seems to be his own religious commentary and stuff related to various lawsuits, investigations, etc. The latter could make it tricky BLP territory, because if that stuff dominates his biography, people are probably going to raise WP:G10 issues.
In the past, people seem to have also wanted to defer to Aquino's desire to not have a Wikipedia article, although it may simply be that he just preferred to have no article than whatever article existed in the past. If we could write a decent article, maybe he'd feel differently. MW131tester ( talk) 23:47, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
Not it. Saintstephen000 ( talk)
"In 1983, he performed a solitary rite at Walhalla, the subterranean section of the Wewelsburg castle in Germany that was utilised as a ceremonial space by the Schutzstaffel's Ahnenerbe group during the Nazi period." any source of that? Hardly imaginable, as the keepers of the castle in post-WWII Germany would not alllow anyone to enter the castle for ceremonies. Also - Walhalla - "subterranean section"? No such thing there called Walhalla. American romanticism? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.108.18.130 ( talk) 23:05, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
Anyone else having a hell of a belly laugh reading the super serious nature of the writing then seeing photos of edgyboi's LARPing? Maybe the Christians in the 80's were right and dungeons and dragons did set us down a bad path! ROFL! :D 121.210.33.50 ( talk) 16:03, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
M. A. Aquino b _ _ _ _ _ d _ _ _ _ _
http://heavy.com/news/2020/07/michael-aquino/
http://mythoughtsbornfromfire.wordpress.com/2020/06/29/michael-aquino-is-apparently-dead/
https://pedophilesdownunder.com/2020/07/21/is-michael-aquino-dead/
https://burners.me/2020/06/29/michael-aquino-dead-was-leppo-his-last-interview/
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
Wikipedia currently redirects a search for the term "Setianism" to the Temple of Set Wikipedia page. Yet the Temple of Set represents only *one branch* of contemporary Setianism. [1] Not all Setians identify as "left-hand path" occultists or "Satanists." [2] [3] Please consider creating a separate page for the term "Setianism," then making it the "parent" of the Temple of Set Wikipedia page. Setians are an extremely complex and multi-faceted religious demographic, but there are two primary varieties: Setians who are left-hand path occultists, like Temple of Set members, and Setians who are Kemetic Pagans, or who actually worship Set in a devotional context. [4] The Wikipedia article for Setianism only includes information about our occultist subpopulation, which can be misleading, so more information about non-ToS Setians who are devotional polytheists is needed.
References
"In November 1986, San Francisco police had begun investigating claims of sexual abuse centering around the Army's Child Development Center at the Presidio of San Francisco. During the investigation, in August 1987, one of the girls ran into her abuser while on a shopping trip with her father. She froze, pointed to a person named Lt.-Col. Michael Aquino, and identified him as "Mikey". Mikey, with help of a member of the child day care center staff, had taken her off site to be abused at his home. During the following investigation, the girl could accurately point out the house of Aquino (282) and describe some of the interior details (283)."
"In October 1987, news of the Presidio molestings hit the local news and it was reported that at least 58 of 100 children who had visited the day care center showed physical and mental signs of sexual abuse (284). Some of the details that came out were that children had been tortured with needles (285) and that some had been forced to drink urine and eat feces (286). The parents sued the day care center for more than 60 million dollars (287), and as time went on, more and more claimed there was a cover up of the facts (288). Aquino was under investigation for a while, but never officially charged with anything (289). The case died a quiet death."
October 30, 1987, San Francisco Chronicle |
November 8, 1987, San Jose Mercury News |
August 2, 1988, San Jose Mercury News |
Lazzldkdm ( talk) 04:57, 28 June 2024 (UTC)